Quote: from earthjunkie at 3:37 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:33 am on July 10, 2009
So, I'd like to hear an argument against this, if anyone will.
Incentive: The need for profit provides a person or organization with motivation to work on new ideas and products that might sell in the market.
The assumption is that if people were not motivated by their need to obtain money nothing would be invented and little social progress would be achieved. First of all, the most powerful contributions to society did not come from people seeking profit; Louis Pasteur, Charles Darwin, The Reich Brothers(SP?), Albert Einstein, and Isaac Newton did not make their massive contributions to society because of material self-interest. While it is true useful inventions and methods do come from the motivation for personal gain, the intent behind those creations typically had nothing to do with human or social concerns, and everything to do with detached, self-interest, and blind personal gain.
The pursuit of profit almost always comes before human concern. And a simple glance at the cancer causing preservatives in our foods, planned obsolescence in nearly everything manufactured, along with a healthcare industry that charges $300 for a single anti-biotic pill, will indicate that the profit incentive is actually a detriment.
Problems in a monetary based society will only have a resolution, if money can be made from solving those problems.
So? A fundamental human right is to be able to work, own, and protect their own possessions. A person's possession is theirs, and they may choose how they wish to use or disperse them among society.
Sure, if you want to have property fine, that's -your- burden, as stated before. It's more convenient and efficient to have things where they are needed readily available. As for using your inventions and possessions how you want, that's right to. I'm just hoping humanity makes the right choice on what they do with that right.
A scientist has the right to make the cure for cancer and never give it out. I'm not going to praise that, I'll find it sad and pathetic. As I do the people who want the world to stay that way. I just think it would be -awesome- if people were a little more selfless, ya' know?
Post edited at 4:09 pm on July 10, 2009 by Aimforthehead
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Quote: from Aimforthehead at 12:55 pm on July 10, 2009
If we eliminated trade the problem would be some guy would come to my door wanting something and I'd be like "Dude that's totally cool by any chance do you have this (something I want), I've been looking everywhere for that shit."
And then a trade just occurred by accident.
Why would you need to trade things that are universally (everywhere) free? You don't have to store shit in your house, if you want to play golf you go to the golf field grab a club and start playing, when you're done you leave it there. If you want to take it home, -fine- that's your burden.
It's important to understand personal ownership is a HUGE burden, why keep objects, maintain them, keep track of where they are, etc. when you can have them readily available where they are needed?
That's why trade isn't necessary. Not because we're trying to avoid it, but because it's very impractical to trade in a RBE.
Who's maintaining the golf course?
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
4:14 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,609 Join to learn more about medjaiCalifornia, United States | StraightMale | Posts: 17,312 | Points: 40,186
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By the way I like that you are arguing this I am not asking questions to refute you but instead to hear your answer.
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
4:16 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,609 Join to learn more about medjaiCalifornia, United States | StraightMale | Posts: 17,312 | Points: 40,186
If we eliminated trade the problem would be some guy would come to my door wanting something and I'd be like "Dude that's totally cool by any chance do you have this (something I want), I've been looking everywhere for that shit."
And then a trade just occurred by accident.
Why would you need to trade things that are universally (everywhere) free? You don't have to store shit in your house, if you want to play golf you go to the golf field grab a club and start playing, when you're done you leave it there. If you want to take it home, -fine- that's your burden.
It's important to understand personal ownership is a HUGE burden, why keep objects, maintain them, keep track of where they are, etc. when you can have them readily available where they are needed?
That's why trade isn't necessary. Not because we're trying to avoid it, but because it's very impractical to trade in a RBE.
Who's maintaining the golf course?
A man really interested in golf, with the help of technology.
------- Admiration is the furthest thing from comprehension.
4:19 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2005 | Days Active: 995 Join to learn more about AimfortheheadCalifornia, United States | LesbianMale | Posts: 22,532 | Points: 32,753
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Quote: from Aimforthehead at 6:05 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Forever Angel at 4:00 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 2:55 pm on July 10, 2009
You don't have to store shit in your house...
Wait a second, whose house? Don't you just move in and out depending on where you are? And why would there be houses? In your utopia, wouldn't it just be some kind of shelter, shared with everyone else who wanted to get out of the rain?
It's by definition not a utopia. And the plan is to have several houses much in a suburban fashion as well as spaced out apartments which are easily detached and thus can be reorganized. You can go where ever you want. You can move in and out depending where you are or want to go, unless you want to stay where you are sure.
Who builds these houses? And if they are all occupied, how do you "move in"?
------- "God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein "God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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What about ownership of the body? How do you solve issues of crime in this society of yours?
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
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I think you misunderstand profits.
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5:11 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: June 2007 | Days Active: 686 Join to learn more about Jettie12New Jersey, United States | StraightMale | Posts: 13,005 | Points: 34,138
What about ownership of the body? How do you solve issues of crime in this society of yours?
Murderers will not be castes from society but instead be treated as sick patients. Every question you have for 'who', all I can say is it is societies responsibility.
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Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:31 pm on July 10, 2009
Every question you have for 'who', all I can say is it is societies responsibility.
How does this society control individuals?
------- "God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein "God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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5:37 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 1,368 Join to learn more about Forever AngelKansas, United States | StraightFemale | Posts: 28,238 | Points: 54,945
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:37 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:31 pm on July 10, 2009
Every question you have for 'who', all I can say is it is societies responsibility.
How does this society control individuals?
Why do people need to be controlled?
------- Admiration is the furthest thing from comprehension.
5:43 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2005 | Days Active: 995 Join to learn more about AimfortheheadCalifornia, United States | LesbianMale | Posts: 22,532 | Points: 32,753
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Assuming your system works the biggest immediate issue would be how to initiate it.
This system requires that a lot of measures be in place and it is hard to envision a foundation for it. In other words, I can see your theoretical world in practice but I can't see how it would develop.
------- O` tru apothecary! Thy drugs are quick. Thus with a kiss I die.
5:44 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2003 | Days Active: 1,609 Join to learn more about medjaiCalifornia, United States | StraightMale | Posts: 17,312 | Points: 40,186
If we eliminated trade the problem would be some guy would come to my door wanting something and I'd be like "Dude that's totally cool by any chance do you have this (something I want), I've been looking everywhere for that shit."
And then a trade just occurred by accident.
Why would you need to trade things that are universally (everywhere) free? You don't have to store shit in your house, if you want to play golf you go to the golf field grab a club and start playing, when you're done you leave it there. If you want to take it home, -fine- that's your burden.
It's important to understand personal ownership is a HUGE burden, why keep objects, maintain them, keep track of where they are, etc. when you can have them readily available where they are needed?
That's why trade isn't necessary. Not because we're trying to avoid it, but because it's very impractical to trade in a RBE.
Who's maintaining the golf course?
Robot labor will build and maintain the golf course.
6:04 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: June 2008 | Days Active: 223 Join to learn more about ronpaul691United States | Posts: 737 | Points: 1,892
Assuming your system works the biggest immediate issue would be how to initiate it.
This system requires that a lot of measures be in place and it is hard to envision a foundation for it. In other words, I can see your theoretical world in practice but I can't see how it would develop.
That's already being planned out, first the goal is to make test cities (The New Z-Land project) and convince government leaders it can work. Basically it will start in the monetary system, and transition to a point where we no longer need money or governments. It won't be a complete revamp or revolution like say, Communism. Government support isn't as necessary as support from people, however.
------- Admiration is the furthest thing from comprehension.
6:06 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2005 | Days Active: 995 Join to learn more about AimfortheheadCalifornia, United States | LesbianMale | Posts: 22,532 | Points: 32,753
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Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:43 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:37 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:31 pm on July 10, 2009
Every question you have for 'who', all I can say is it is societies responsibility.
How does this society control individuals?
Why do people need to be controlled?
Are you assuming that there are no psychopaths, career criminals, etc that will be living in your society? Or do you just let them do as they will?
------- "God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein "God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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7:03 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Dec. 2005 | Days Active: 1,368 Join to learn more about Forever AngelKansas, United States | StraightFemale | Posts: 28,238 | Points: 54,945
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 7:03 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:43 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:37 pm on July 10, 2009
Quote: from Aimforthehead at 7:31 pm on July 10, 2009
Every question you have for 'who', all I can say is it is societies responsibility.
How does this society control individuals?
Why do people need to be controlled?
Are you assuming that there are no psychopaths, career criminals, etc that will be living in your society? Or do you just let them do as they will?
I've already answered that question. Those people will be treated as sick patients, as, in essence, that is exactly what they are.
We cannot create a perfect world. You cannot eliminate violence from jealousy and mental illnesses. But from the violence we can eliminate, we should.
No ones saying a RBE is perfect, it's just a hell of a lot better than what we're doing now.
------- Admiration is the furthest thing from comprehension.
7:50 pm on July 10, 2009 | Joined: Nov. 2005 | Days Active: 995 Join to learn more about AimfortheheadCalifornia, United States | LesbianMale | Posts: 22,532 | Points: 32,753
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