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Quote: from jsia at 7:01 pm on Oct. 27, 2009

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I love how people are saying it's fine...how can something that messes you up so bad be 'okay' or 'fine'?

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5-ht2a receptor agonists such as LSD produce absolutely spectacular effects, but haven't ever been linked to any kind of physical damage. I'm not really sure how you're making the connection between "this temporarily speeds up part of my serotonin system, distorting how I think and perceive" and "this must be causing me physical damage"; perhaps you could explain why one should necessitate the other or cite a source suggesting that LSD is not one of the least harmful psychoactive drugs known to man?

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Just like people once thought the Eart was flat, smoking wasn't bad for you and Aspestos was safe to use. Yeah, coz we always know everything.

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Me break the rules? No,i test their elasticity.

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Quote: from Wilder at 12:06 pm on Oct. 28, 2009

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Quote: from jsia at 7:01 pm on Oct. 27, 2009

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I love how people are saying it's fine...how can something that messes you up so bad be 'okay' or 'fine'?

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5-ht2a receptor agonists such as LSD produce absolutely spectacular effects, but haven't ever been linked to any kind of physical damage. I'm not really sure how you're making the connection between "this temporarily speeds up part of my serotonin system, distorting how I think and perceive" and "this must be causing me physical damage"; perhaps you could explain why one should necessitate the other or cite a source suggesting that LSD is not one of the least harmful psychoactive drugs known to man?

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Just like people once thought the Eart was flat, smoking wasn't bad for you and Aspestos was safe to use. Yeah, coz we always know everything.

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Add to this the fact that LSD has been used massive numbers of times by large numbers of individuals without negative effect, and while one most certainly should accept the possibility of some unseen, horrible effect of LSD that we have yet to associate with it, the probability of it being so is reasonably low.  

When we expand to all 5-ht2a receptor agonists that we know of (LSD, psilocybin, DMT, mescalin, etc.), have a well-understood and documented neuropharmacological interaction that gives us no reason to worry on a chemical level (that is to say, we understand the specifics of how these drugs interact with our bodies, and after studying these reactions we have found no reason to suspect long-lasting adverse effects beyond what I have described--something that could never be said for tobacco or asbestos). Furthermore, we increase to a very large body of individuals who have taken these substances with no observed ill effect.

While this is obviously not 100% conclusive, it's quite significant to have an extensive list of studies by medical professionals with a strong anti-drug bias (the NIDA, for example, is funded largely to provide information to the public on negative aspects of various drugs to discourage illegal substance use), an in-depth understanding of the chemical interactions at play, and a long history of frequent use by a large number of individuals and still not have any reason whatsoever to suspect ill effects beyond what I have described in this thread.

Exactly what logic/ evidence outweighs this and thus suggests that we should consider LSD to be more harmful than I have portrayed it as?

Post edited at 9:17 pm on Oct. 27, 2009 by Wilder

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"Hey, that's not very nice, Mayor--
just because a person's gay doesn't mean he's a fag!"
-Stan

The mind is an impressionable thing, especially when the way it percieves reality is being warped to such a degree as LSD.

It's hard to put into words what I'm thinking, just that I've known LSD to have unpredictable effects mentally on some people. Not in the sense that they develop psychosis or anything necessarily, I'm not even completely sure what psychosis is, but that it changes the way they think about sober reality in a way that doesn't seem all that rational or healthy sometimes. Psychosis as I know it in people I've known would be like, getting into a perpetual sort of sober trip. Not in the sense of visuals or even LSD like effects while sober, just paranoia about say what is really real or what matters or whether they should go live in a gutter away from the "fake" environment of modern society.

These things aren't indicative of physical damage to the brain though, clearly because I've seen people resort back to their previous state of being, but I think it's indicative of the unnerving effects LSD can have on someone who goes down some sort of mental path while tripping and takes it very seriously or sort of traumatically. I sort of think thats what happened to Timothy Leary, even though he seemed to live a happy life I'm not completely sure if living in a house with a bunch of people doing acid constantly and reshaping society was anything more than a thick fantasy they all fell into.

Just remember that its a DRUG, in most cases the thoughts you will have on it are just DRUGGED thoughts that may make absolutely no rational sense. Take any serious sort of mental path on your trip with a grain of salt, just enjoy the experience of being somewhere different from the normal reality. When I used to do it on the off occasion that it was available I thought of it almost like a vacation.

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ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH

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So much retarded in this thread. Thank God most of it was deleted before I got here...

LSD does not ever go in your spine. You will never, ever spontaneously start tripping again without taking LSD.

LSD is one of the safest drugs known to man; it is less harmful than tobacco, alcohol, and cannabis (pot).
   

There aren't any physical problems associated with LSD use, but that doesn't mean that nothing bad can ever happen to you as a result of taking it. The known risks of LSD are:

• Injuring yourself while tripping. While you generally still have a pretty good understanding of reality ("man, I'm really fucked up... I better get away from the edge of this bridge in case I fall" is a lot more typical of what you'll be thinking than "holy shit! I'm a fucking bird! I can fly!"), LSD does very severely impact your thought patterns and understanding of the world around you while you're tripping; it should only be done in a controlled setting with some form of supervision.
  
• Traumatic experiences. It's certainly possible to have a bad trip, and spending hours dominated by feelings of anxiety and despair greatly enchanced by a powerful psychotropic drug can be rough for your psyche. Feeling of anxiety from a bad trip can be re-triggered by something reminding you of it later on in what is essentially a mild form of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder), which is what flashbacks on LSD really are.
  
• HPPD (hallucinogen persisting perception disorder). This is the closest thing to what most people consider flashbacks; basically some users find that after taking LSD they develop a syndrom where visual stimuli register in their brains and then don't immediately go away, resulting in tracers and trails as well as slower adaptation to changes between light and dark. While this is generally a very mild disorder, there is no known treatment.
  
• Aggravation of underlying mental disorders. People with latant mental illnesses like schizophrenia can have their disorders triggered by taking LSD, sending them into psychotic episodes.

Urban legends about LSD staying in your spine and then re-releasing, making your brain bleed, making you legally retarded after a certain number of trips, or making you trip forever are just that--utter bullshit.

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Wow...

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And you, demon, what do you have faith in?
Nothing. I am so exquisitely empty

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You get the "high" because it goes inside of your spine. Yes...it's bad.

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sorry wilder you just lost this thread. her point cannot be invalidated.

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It obviously can.

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Quote: from Wilder at 12:06 pm on Oct. 28, 2009

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Quote: from jsia at 7:01 pm on Oct. 27, 2009

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I love how people are saying it's fine...how can something that messes you up so bad be 'okay' or 'fine'?

---

5-ht2a receptor agonists such as LSD produce absolutely spectacular effects, but haven't ever been linked to any kind of physical damage. I'm not really sure how you're making the connection between "this temporarily speeds up part of my serotonin system, distorting how I think and perceive" and "this must be causing me physical damage"; perhaps you could explain why one should necessitate the other or cite a source suggesting that LSD is not one of the least harmful psychoactive drugs known to man?

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Just like people once thought the Eart was flat, smoking wasn't bad for you and Aspestos was safe to use. Yeah, coz we always know everything.

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Well if you want to put it that way, we as humans actually know absolutely nothing. Hence the "truth" of the matter is that nobody actually knows at a 100% certainty that LSD is good or bad for you. Hoffman (the guy who invented LSD) tripped regularly till the day he died, which is to say at the age of 102. Does this prove however that LSD is safe? No, because it was a one case scenario. There are people who take acid once and are mentally traumatised for life. But it doesn't make LSD a dangerous drug.

My point is that you cannot generalise on whether LSD is safe or not. Some people cannot cope with it, others will find it to be the most intense and worthwhile experience of their lives.

I know I can cope with it, i just need to get my hands on some  

Acid speeds up your thought processes to an immeasurable degree. Your thoughts explode, taking a concept and exploring every possible outcome of each scenario. This is great for some things, as it is generally easy to come to some nice conclusions about life and the self etc.

But if something bad happens or a bad seed gets planted, your mind will explore the bad thoughts too. Depending on how much you take it might be difficult to control your own thoughts. I had a really tough experience last time I did acid. I was doing it with my boyfriend.... we had been having relationship troubles at the time, and adding acid to the mix completely spun it out of control. We were both convinced that we were faking our feelings for each other, and had gotten over each other, moved on, and progressed towards resentment for each other. All within the confines of the trip.

I messed around with a couple low dose trips of acid to get a feel for it, and came to some great conclusions about who I was, what I was doing with my time on earth and how to look at the world. I took a large dose and my mind was opened up to the vastness of the universe and time and how incredibly small and insignificant I was in the grand scheme. I thought thoughts that I won't be able to unthink and bad seeds are planted in my head now. I probably shouldn't take any more acid because I REALLY don't want to explore these thoughts any further.

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Educators destroy your brain,
but you don't know, so why care?
Fagotto