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How does that make me support minimum wage?

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I said the opposite - saying what you did shows that you support very pitiful pay and poor working conditions.  Personally, I don't support the minimum wage either, however, because illegal immigrants are not registered and not legally allowed to be here, they are manipulated by the individuals who employ them to work.  As a result, they are not in a position to demand for greater benefits or working conditions and because they can be manipulated like this, no individual here legally can compete even if they were willing put up with those working conditions and pay.

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I never said I liked low labor work conditions or pay, but that they are better than nothing and the workers should be thankful they at least have a job.

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Bullshit.  Employers are to comply with US law, no exceptions.  Illegal immigration helps fuel this defiance of US law and it consequently hurts every American here legally for, again, unlike an illegal immigrant, they can't exactly be manipulated in the same way and thus they aren't hired even if they were willing to be paid a few dollars an hour under the table.

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The point I am making is that if you don't put forth the effort you won't get anything. All three of you are trying desperately to skew my argument and put words in my mouth that I never said.

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I didn't skew a thing.  You're trying to legitimize a position which has absolutely no basis.

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Scewing the lines between illegal and legal immigration? The facts are at your disposal, go look them up. What have I done to scew anything?

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Then why did you say this to the OP after his reply to you about how you couldn't care less about illegal immigration?:

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Oh lordy, here comes the religious, pompous, Anglo-American Supremacy shitstorm...too bad I still don't give a fuck what either of you has to say. Although please, continue to make a fool of yourelf and try to change my opinions, this is quite amusing.

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You seem to believe that opposing illegal immigration means that you are a religious, pompous, Anglo-American Supremacist.  Why is that?  The OP doesn't say anywhere that he's opposed to legal immigration.

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And how the hell does "supporting" (honestly I am completely indifferent to the cause) illegal immigration make me a white suprimacist?

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I never claimed you were one.

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If anything you three wanting to keep them out because they are "fucking mexicans" are the racists here looking for a shitty excuse to essentially "rid the world of the enemy"....

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Is that why the OP supports legal immigration from Mexico?  Because he hates those "fucking Mexicans"?

Try again.

And look through your argument again Bud. You've misquoted me quite a few times in an attempt to make a point. I never said I don't care about illegal immigration. I said I don't care what any of you have to say about it.

And don't ask the questions you already know the answer to. It makes you look like a dick.

Post edited at 7:23 am on Aug. 9, 2009 by y4r5xeym5

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It is a blurred line that lies at the edge of Godhood and Insanity.
Guess which side of it I am on. Feeling lucky?

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And look through your argument again Bud. You've misquoted me quite a few times in an attempt to make a point. I never said I don't care about illegal immigration. I said I don't care what any of you have to say about it.

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I have not misquoted you.  Each quote was directly from your posts and not taken out of context.  If what you said wasn't exactly what you meant, I would advise you to work on your ability to communicate through written word.

I am not trying to "win" anything - I'm simply pointing out that what you have been saying and the accusations you've been throwing out are baseless.  Call that a "win" if you want, but I'm just trying to discuss something and hack out all the bullshit at the same time.

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But illegal immigrants make the best food

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Immigration to the Americas is respectable if you aim to assimilate, work hard and get a job, not join gangs, and try to act like a respectable American.

Too bad many illegals do not do that and just want to leech off of our government instead. Sure, some don't, but why interview each illegal when 1000's are criminals filling up our jails and instigating race riots.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Perhaps y4r5xeym5 would have a point if most Mexicans came to the US to become American and have a better life

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http://www.migrationinformation.org/feature/display.cfm?ID=208

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About 5.3 million undocumented immigrants from Mexico are living in the United States, according to estimates based on the March 2002 Current Population Survey (CPS) as well as census and other government data. Over one in every two Mexican immigrants is undocumented, compared with about one in every six for the remainder of the foreign born.

Mexican Immigration to the United States

Mexico represents the largest source of immigration to the United States. Of the 32.5 million foreign born covered in the March 2002 CPS, 9.8 million or 30 percent were from Mexico; the next largest source, the Philippines, accounted for only one-seventh as many at 1.4 million. The rest of Latin America accounted for 7.3 million or 23 percent. Asian immigrants, at 8.5 million, made up 26 percent of the total foreign-born population. There were 5.4 million foreign born from Europe and Canada, accounting for 17 percent of all immigrants. Africa and the remaining countries, at 1.4 million, made up four percent of all foreign born.

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But its better to keep on with the lies and the bigotry...

Post edited at 5:42 pm on Aug. 9, 2009 by jakelong

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

I think a lot of Latino groups are too caught up trying to please everybody and trying to defend actions that makes us look bad.

I think the problem is too often people make the whole issue into a pro-latino antilatino thing and that really destroys us more than anything.

A lot of Latinos can and do immigrate LEGALLY. When we do that we prove that we can contribute to the world by staying within laws. We don't have to hide just because we want to work.

But Bud is right in that illegal immigration just contributes to making latino wages low and making u look like we are not wanted and forcing our valauble work on others. Everyone knows thats not true. If we were not needed agricultural and tourist cindustries wouldn' be hiring Latinos by the dozen even during recessions.


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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

Most Mexicans do not label themselves "American" - but are instead loyal to their own country.

The Mexican government made it so you can have dual citizenship. Mexicans can live in the USA and be loyal to Mexico now. Yay?

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

The problem is that we have to ask everyone involved what they really want?

Are the jobs so non valuable that companies can tell thmselves hy can pay below the minum wage and then punish illgeals because they know that those wges are still higher than the ones in their home country?

Does America really need people to pick their fruits below minimum wage?

Do we just need temporary workers but want to send them back when we don't need them?

Cant' we realy find temporary workers in the US who will be willing to work at those wages?

Basically if w really want to curb illegal immigration then we must overhaul WHOLE SYSTEM not just of immigration but what we are willing to pay workers and how long we want them for and if we really want a class of people who are just migrant or temporarry workers without giving them any immigration rights.

We got to think bout what we really want and how and what can be done that satisfy the agriculuture and tourist companies profit and what is the status of those who are hired by them and what is the minumum salary we are willing to pay.

ONCE we have done that we can say ok heres the minimum acceptable wage Americans are willing to be paid for this or that work and make sure we have enough of those Americans willing to do that and actually registering to be hired in hose companies.

And then we can claim we WILL REFUSE to hire anyone for any lower no matter what we want out profit to be. And we can flatly refuse any illegal immigrant worker.

Because trust me if no one is willing to hire them they WILL go home and or stop coming. IF you can hire a whole bunch of LEGAL immigrants for dirt cheap and they are willing and able then why make life more difficult? If you really are strict about the law then stop hiring illegals.

But if companies keep playing the greedy game and claim the only way they can make a profit is to hire ppl at wages that no american is willing to work for then they are feeding the problem

Basically we can't just play the blame game either way.

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

But if people insist, we should only let immigrants in who have a job lined up - and if they commit any crimes withing a few months, DEPORT.

-------
"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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Abs and KR have got you brainwashed bud...i thought u were one of the good guys.

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I am not for illegal immigration and I never said I was. To me it gives gives all of us latinos a bad name because it makes it seems that we are not willing or able to play by the rules.

The real truth is that the rules right now are messed up. We blame"illegal" immigrants but we dont' say anything against companies that hire them illegally

And everyone knows that Hilton and Hyatt and many motels and big farms are hiring a lot of ppl illegally and making a huge profit for that. But all THEY get is a slap on the hand and everyone thinks thats ok.

I just think that ppl who keep blaming illegal immigrants should look into their own heart and mind about what they REALLY want people for.

Its easy for everyone to say that illegal immigrants are scum but are they themselves willing to work for a lower than minimum wage? Do they think that the job so worthless that companies can say OMG we cant possibllry survive unless we pay BELOW minimum? Do they think that American economy can't survive unless they hire ppl at below the minimum?

If thats the case then ppl have to be willing to have temporary immigrants who come in to work those jobs for a wage that everyone KNOWS is below and we have to treat them DECENT. We have to have some specil system for them.

If thats not the case then all those who bitch about illegals can go ahead and line up right now for those jobs and fill up the rank and Im sure those companies will be happy to ake them

Otherwise its easy to let companies exploit ppl and then blame illegal immigrants for it.

Here is the key thing you missed

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But if companies keep playing the greedy game and claim the only way they can make a profit is to hire ppl at wages that no american is willing to work for then they are feeding the problem

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Where abs is right is that its true that latino groups could do more to show they don't approve of illegal immigration and they should work for a way to make things not one sided,

Where I don't agree with abs is how he pretends that all Latino groups encourage more illegal immigration.

I've given up taking abs at face value though. I just pick things where he might have some point and leave out the rest because 9 time out of 10 the rest of his shit is just trolling and strawmans and bigotted attacks for the sake of propaganda.

And I ignore KR's shit altogether its not worth my time arguing with bigots and race nationalists anymore.

If anything Im getting a bit closer to where Bud is coming from. Although I can't say I agree with everything he says,

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Abs and KR have got you brainwashed bud...i thought u were one of the good guys.

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I've always opposed illegal immigration and think we ought to do more to counter it.  Abs and KR have nothing to do with my position there.  That said, though, I'm all for legal immigration and think that when we require additional labor in the country, we ought to open our borders more, or in the reverse situation (like now with unemployment so high), we ought to be more strict with it.

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Abs and KR have got you brainwashed bud...i thought u were one of the good guys.

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He might be influenced a bit by abs ideas sometimes and see where he's coming from but he has a totally different tack on it really.

Bud is right in that illegal immigation does favor treating ALL poor ppl badly (legal AND illegal) It expolits EVERYBODY.

He has a tendency to defend abs a bit too often thats true but I know Bud enough that he IS one of the good guys and he means well even if I dont always agree with him.

Basically he does try to be fair.

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP