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Do you know what they don't speak of in Chinese history books?

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Are you saying it's a WORLDWIDE conspiracy to conceal the truth in EVERY single civilizations in every political government, in EVERY single part of the world?

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Quote: from kidd rune at 9:13 am on Sep. 13, 2008

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Which is an opinion.

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You have plenty of opinion that are MORE insane and unproven  

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They were stone aged societies.

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Egypt was NOT stone age. But for some reason you still insist they white. Maybe because you recognize that the existance of Egypt totally pawns your idea of nonwhites as stupid savages.

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When I look around I'm observing. I'm sure an army of light haired and light eyed people wouldn't go escaped.

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Why would it MATTER to them? Most people NEVER even mentioned the fact that Genghis Khan was blond, blue eyed.  

In fact here is how MOST people portrayed him  

http://www.biography.com/genghis-khan/images/bioPic1.jpg  

http://www.biography.com/genghis-khan/images/bioPic2.jpg  

http://www.biography.com/genghis-khan/images/bioPic6.jpg  

So um yeah. So much for THAT theory.  

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Sorry but my pictures contradict yours

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp352/dumbstupidblah/genghis2.jpg

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp352/dumbstupidblah/genghis.jpg

Post edited at 4:51 pm on Sep. 13, 2008 by justin1990rm

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You have plenty of opinion that are MORE insane and unproven

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Egypt was NOT stone age. But for some reason you still insist they white. Maybe because you recognize that the existance of Egypt totally pawns your idea of nonwhites as stupid savages.

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Why would it MATTER to them? Most people NEVER even mentioned the fact that Genghis Khan was blond, blue eyed.

In fact here is how MOST people portrayed him

{images}

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And the first two images I've never seen before, but I can ASSURE you that they weren't made during the time he invaded. The last was created in 1998 in China.

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Sure so they coul have missed the fact the rest of Khan's army was blonde blue eyed!

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What about ANCIENT Chinese history books? Why would they not speak of the Nordish? What about Indian books? What about documents from other Middle Eastern civilizations?

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he ancestral mother and founder of this clan was known as Alan goa (beautiful Alan). According to the Mongol and Chinese legends on the subject, she was said to have been visited in her tent by a divine being, who possessed golden hair, a fair complexion and grey eyes. Shortly after this visitation, she gave birth to the first member of the Bourchikoun clan.

Temujin himself was noted in Chinese descriptions of him, for his tall stature and heavy beard, both common Nordish traits.

Harold Lamb, in his biography of the great Khan:
"He must have been tall, with high shoulders, his skin a whitish tan. His eyes, set far apart under a sloping forehead, did not slant. And his eyes were green, or blue-grey in the iris, with black pupils. Long reddish-brown hair fell in braids to his back."

Ab ul Ghasi also observed that the family of Yesugai, the father of Temujin, were known for the fact that their children often had fair complexions, and blue or grey eyes.

Temujin's wife, Bourtai, bore a name which means "Grey-Eyed".

As both Günther (1934) and Lamb (1928) note, Temujin's relatives and descendants also possessed fair features: Temujin's son and successor Ogadei (1229-41), had gray eyes and red hair; Temujin's grandson Mangu (1251-9), had reddish eyebrows and a red-brown beard; Subatei, who conquered China, had a long, reddish beard. Indeed, it was said that people were surprised Kubilai Khan had dark hair and eyes, because most of Genghis Khan's descendants had reddish hair and blue eyes.

Another of Genghis Khan's descendants, the great conqueror Tamerlane (1336-1405), also inherited Nordish racial characteristics. According to a contemporary, Ibn Arabshah, Tamerlane was tall and strong, with broad shoulders, a large head and high forehead, he had a heavy beard, was white-skinned and had a ruddy complexion. He also seems to have been fair-haired.

This description has been confirmed in recent times. In 1941, the Soviet Archaeological Commission opened the tomb of Tamerlane, which resides in the city of Samarkand, Uzbekistan. Within it, Tamerlane's physical remains were discovered: they proved that he had indeed been a man of strong build and imposing stature. Most interestingly of all however, the last few hairs of a reddish-brown moustache were found adhering to the skull.

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Are you saying it's a WORLDWIDE conspiracy to conceal the truth in EVERY single civilizations in every political government, in EVERY single part of the world?

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Sorry but my pictures contradict yours

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp352/dumbstupidblah/genghis2.jpg

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp352/dumbstupidblah/genghis.jpg

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They're just trying to boost the self esteem of the other students I guess.

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Quote: from kidd rune at 5:27 pm on Sep. 13, 2008

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They're just trying to boost the self esteem of the other students I guess.

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Or maybe you trying to boost your own I guess.

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What I believe isn't "Politically correct" therefore it's tabooed and viewed as racist, no matter how true it is.

http://raceandreason.110mb.com/files/Political Correctness.html

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"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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You mean Chinese and Indian scholars give a shit about PC??? Where is the evidence from Chinese and Indian and Egyptian sources? Null. Zero.

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BTW you call my stuff copy paste but you do a lot of that and do not even refer your sources and pass your postshit as your own work.

Here is how Tamerlane was found

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In 1941, the body of Tamerlane was permitted to be exhumed by a Russian scientist, M. M. Gerasimov. The scientist found Timur, after examining his skeleton, a Mongoloid man about 5 feet 8 inches. He also confirmed Tamerlane's lameness. In his book The Face Finder, Gerasimov explains how he was able to reconstruct exact likenesses of Timur from a careful consideration of his skull.

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http://www.silk-road.com/artl/timur.shtml

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He was said to be tall strongly built and well proportioned, with a large head and broad forehead. His complexion was pale and ruddy, his beard long and his voice full and resonant. Arabshah describes him approaching seventy, a master politician and military strategist:

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So basically anyone who is tall and pale complexion is AUTOMATICALLY nordish?

Here is another account of the Temujin

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Little is known about his early life, and the few sources providing insight into this period do not agree on many basic facts. He was born in a tribe and named Temujin because at the time his father had just captured a chieftain from the Tartar tribe with that name. His father was a tribal leader and his predecessors were also chieftains engaging in constant warfare and conflict with other tribes like others. He was therefore of a noble line and through his lineage he was able to find alliance with his earlier allies more easily. He was likely born around 1162 to 1167 in the mountainous area of Burhan Haldun in Mongolia's Hentiy Province near the Onon and the Herlen (Kherülen) rivers. Folklore and legend state that Temujin was born with a blood clot in his fist, an indication that he was destined to become a conquering leader. He was the eldest son of Yesükhei, a minor tribal chief of the Kiyad and a nöker (vassal) of Ong Khan of the Kerait tribe, possibly descended from a family of blacksmiths (see below, name). Yesükhei's clan was called Borjigin (Боржигин), and his mother, Hoelun, was of the Olkhunut tribe of the Mongol confederation. They were nomads like almost all Central Asian Turkic and Mongol confederations.

Family

Temüjin was related through his own father to Qabul Khan, Ambaghai and Qutula Khan who had headed the Mongol confederation under the Jin Dynasty until the Jin switched support to the Tatars in 1161 and destroyed Qabul Khan. Genghis' father, Yesugei (khan of the Borjigin and nephew to Ambaghai and Qutula Khan) emerged as the head of the ruling clan of the Mongols, but this position was contested by the rival Tayichi'ud clan, who descended directly from Ambaghai. When the Tatars, in turn, grew too powerful after 1161, the Jin moved their support from the Tatars to the Kerait.

Temüjin had three brothers, Khasar (or Qasar), Khajiun, and Temüge, and one sister, Temülen (or Temulin), as well as two half-brothers, Bekhter and Belgutei.

Genghis Khan's empress and first wife Borte had four sons, Jochi (1185-1226), Chagatai (?—1241), Ögedei (?—1241), and Tolui (1190-1232). Genghis Khan also had many other children with his other wives, but they were excluded from the succession, and records on what daughters he may have had are nonexistent. The paternity of Genghis Khan's eldest son, Jochi, remains unclear to this day and was a serious point of contention in his lifetime. Soon after Borte's marriage to Temüjin, she was kidnapped by the Merkits and reportedly given to one of their men as a wife. Though she was rescued, she gave birth to Jochi nine months later, clouding the issue of his parentage.

According to traditional historical accounts, this uncertainty over Jochi's true father was voiced most strongly by Chagatai. According to The Secret History of the Mongols, just before the invasion of the Khwarezmid Empire by Genghis Khan, Chagatai declared before his father and brothers that he would never accept Jochi as Genghis Khan's successor. In response to this tension and possibly for other reasons, it was Ögedei who was appointed as successor and who ruled as Khagan after Genghis Khan's death. Jochi died in 1226, before his father.

Childhood

Based on legends and later writers, Temüjin's early life was difficult. When he was only nine, as part of the marriage arrangement, his father Yesukhei delivered Temüjin to the family of his future wife Borte, members of the Onggirat tribe. He was to live there in service to Deisechen, the head of the household, until he reached the marriageable age of 12. He grew up in a tough political climate because of tribal warfare, thievery, raids, revenges between the confederations, foreign forces, influences etc. and none of them were under a single political control, except the Chinese dynasties.

Because of political reasons, while heading home his father was secretly poisoned by eating poisoned food from the neighbouring Tatars by taking him to their base in retaliation for his campaigns and raids against them. This gave Temüjin a claim to be the clan's chief, although his father's clan refused to be led by a boy and soon abandoned him and his family including his mother Hoelun and left them without protection.

For the next few years, Temüjin and his family lived the life of impoverished nomads, surviving primarily on wild fruits, marmots and other small game hunted by Temujin and his brothers. In one incident, Temüjin murdered his half-brother Bekhter with an arrow at the age of 13 over a dispute about sharing hunting spoils. Despite being severely reproached by his mother, he never expressed any remorse over the killing. The incident also cemented his position as head of the household.

In another incident in 1182, he was captured in a raid by his former tribe, the Ta'yichiut, and held captive. The Ta'yichiut enslaved Temüjin (reportedly with a cangue), but he escaped with help from a sympathetic captor, the father of Chilaun, a future general of Genghis Khan. His mother, Hoelun, taught him many lessons about survival in the harsh landscape and even grimmer political climate of Mongolia, especially the need for alliances with others, a lesson which would shape his understanding in his later years. Jelme and Bo'orchu, two of Genghis Khan's future generals, joined him around this time. Along with his brothers, they provided the manpower needed for early expansion and diplomacy.

Temüjin married Börte of the Konkirat tribe around the age of 16, being betrothed as children by their parents as a customary way to forge a tribal alliance. She was later kidnapped in a raid by the Merkit tribe, and Temüjin rescued her with the help of his friend and future rival, Jamuqa, and his protector, Ong Khan of the Kerait tribe. She remained his only empress, although he followed tradition by taking several morganatic wives. Börte's first child, Jochi, was born roughly nine months after she was freed from the Merkit, leading to questions about the child's paternity.

Temüjin became blood brother (anda) with Jamuqa, and thus the two made a vow to be faithful to each other for eternity.

Uniting the Central Asian confederations

Main Central Asian confederations at the time of Temujin's unification were:

* Naimans (also known as Naiman Mongols)
* Merkits
* Uyghurs
* Tatars
* Mongols (composed of Keraits, Ongirrad, Jalayr, and Tai'chud)

The main opponents of the Mongols by around c. 1100 were the Naimans to the west, the Merkits to the north, Tanguts to the south, the Jin and Tatars to the east. By 1190, Temüjin and his advisors had united together the Mongol confederation only. As an incentive for absolute obedience and following of his code of laws, the Yassa code, he promised civilians and fighters wealth from future possible war spoils. However, the exact words of the Yassa are unknown because it was never found. The small mongol tribes were around 19 BCE, later on they grouped and became the Mongolian.

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http://www.chinaonline.cn.com/chinese_culture/biography/genghis-khan.html

See atl easlt I QUOTE my sources rather than pretend I wrote all that shit.

Oh here's more stuff if you want to read that

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Borjigid & the color of the eyes
The Borjigid clan was a branch of the Kiyats, to which the Jurchens (Jurchids), Changsi'ut and the Kiyat-Sayar also belonged. The Borjigids had an legend that after the death of Dobun-mergen, the alleged ancestress Alan-ko bore Bodunchar after being visited by a strange 'golden glittering man'. Rashid ad-Din provided this rumor by alluding to a foreign origin of the visitor and described him as having red hair and blue-green eyes. Paul Ratchnevsky speculated that the mysterious visitor could be a Kirghiz since the Kirghiz people were said to be tall and possess red hair and green eyes, and he further speculated that in contrast with the red-haired Kirghiz, Chinese Tangshu (Tang History) had said those nomads with black hair were descendants of a Chinese general called Li Ling (Han Dynasty historian Sima Qian's friend) who surrendered to the Huns. (Note that Tang records stated that Kirghiz disliked BLACK hair and took it as BAD OMEN.) It is not strange that the nomads used the 'Light Conception Motif' to mystify their origins. The Kirghiz people, hundreds of years after they expelled the Uigurs from Mongolia, had become a people very much mystified.

Chinese records showed that the Mongolians had possessed 'chestnut colored' eyes. Today's song, "Dragon's Descendants", however, still sang about 'black-colored eyes'. Paul Ratchnevsky quoted the contemporary Chinese Zhao Hong as saying that Genghis Khan differed from other Tartars in that he was tall and had long beard, and quoted Marco Polo as saying that Khubilai did have black eyes but fair complexion 'ringed with red'. Rashid ad-Din, in 'Collected Chronicles', said that Genghis Khan was amazed to see that Khubilai had black hair while the rest of their family had red hair and said his grandson must have taken 'his old uncles' features. (I will deem Rashid's account with some suspicion. Cai Dongfan stated that Bodunchar had grey eyes against the chestnut-colored eyes of his brothers and half-brothers. Nothing is mentioned of hair or skin. My personal opinion is that it would be impossible that only Genghis Khan himself looked different from the other 'Tartars' in the eyes of Zhao Hong while the lineage of the Borjigid should be running down along all tribal lines, including Tayichi'uts and Jurkins.)

Paul Ratchnevsky quoted some Islamic record saying Kirghiz people had light color in skin and eyes. Paul Ratchnevsky speculated about the connection of the Kirghiz to the Borjigid clan as the cause of Genghis Khan's non-Mongoloid features. The Borjigid was a branch of the Kiyats, to which the Jurchens (Jurchids) also belonged. According to "New History Of Five Dynasties", Kirghiz belonged to the ancient 'Jiankun' Statelet which was located to the western-most of the Huns. They should be to the west of Yiwu Statelet and to the north of Yanqi Statelet. Hunnic Chanyu Zhizhi destroyed Jiankun and ex-Han General Li Ling, who surrendered to the Huns, was assigned to the land of Jiankun as King of Youxianwang, namely, rightside virtuous king, with an army of 80,000. "New History Of Five Dynasties" said that Kirghiz possessed lighter skin, red hair, green eyes and taller height, and that those Kirghiz with black hair must be the descendants of Li Ling.

At one time, during Tang Emperor Suzong's reign of AD 758-760, the Huihu (Uygur) conquered the Jiankun Statelet of the Kirghiz. The Kirghis allied themselves with Tibetans, Arabs and Karlaks. Kirghiz, with the help of a defecting Huihu (Uygur) general and combining a cavalry forces of 100000, defeated Huihu (Uygur) and killed the Huihu khan around AD 840s. Fifteen Huihu (Uygur) tribes fled westward to the Karlaks, while some remnants fled southward to Tibetans for protection. Another thirteen families, under the new khan Wujie Tele, moved towards Tang China. Huihu (Uygur), under Khan Wujie, attacked Tiande and Zhenwu cities (near today's Datong, Shanxi areas), and Tang border governor-general Liu Mian countered back. Tang Court, at the request of Princess Taihe, agreed to let Huihu (Uygur) reside to the west of Zhenwu city. Further, Tang gave them 20,000 units of grain supply. This group of Huihu (Uygur) would be engaged with fights against Tang China, Tibetans, Xi Nomads of Manchuria, Sha'to Turks, and Kirghis for years, till they were totally destroyed. Today's Huihu (Uygur) should look towards those who fled to the Karlaks and Tibetans for their ancestors.

Kirghiz Khan, Ah Ri, earlier, had retrieved Tang Princess Taihe from the Huihu (Uygur) and sent her on the way to Tang China. But the new khan of Huihu (Uygur), Wujie, killed Kirghiz emissary and brought Princess Taihe back to their court. Kirghiz claimed that they shared the same last name as Tang emperors. They sent another emissary to Tang, and it took the emissary three years to reach Tang to see Emperor Wuzong. Later Kirghiz sent another emissary and made a proposal to attack Huihu (Uygur) together. It would be in AD 859 that Tang Emperor Xuandi decided to confer the Kirghiz the title of Khan Bravery-Intelligence. New History Of Five Dynasties said Kirghiz paid three more pilgrimages during AD 860-875, but they failed to exterminate Huihu (Uygur).

Jalair
Possibly of Turkic ancestry, this group of people were captured by the Timuchin's clan and became vassals. In early days, this group of people had raided the pasture of rich Mongol woman, Monolun (wife of the grandson of Bodunchar), and killed her and her eight sons. Only Kaidu was saved by his uncle Nachin and later Kaidu defeated the Jalair to be a leader of the early Mongol people. The Jalairs became very much attached to the Mongol people in the ensuing years. Later, they were became vassals and got assimilated. Mukali was said to be one of them.

Jukin
Okin-barkak's son, Sorkatu-jurki, is designated by Paul Ratchnevsky as the founder of the Jurkin. Okin-barak was the eldest son of Kabul-khan and he was Yisugei's uncle. The Jurkin wrestler, Buri-boko, was the grandson of Kabul-khan. Secret History talked about a banquet held by Timuchin and the Jurkin princes in celebration of several tribes defecting to him from Jamuka's camp. Two stewards of respective tribes, Buri-boko (Yisugei's cousin who went to the Jurkins for his hobby of wrestling long time ago) and Belgutei (Timuchin's elder brother) had a quarrel with each other over some clan members' actions. Fights broke out among the guests of the two sides.

The Jurkins are Timuchin's kinsmen, and they were called Kiyat-Jukins. When the Tatars rebelled against the Jurchens, the Jurchens came to Mongolia to fight the Tatars. In middle of AD 1196, the Tatars retreated in face of the Jurchen attack, and Timuchin called on the Jukins to join him in attacking the Tatars. Not getting a response from the Jukins for six days, he attacked the Tatars together with Toghrul's army and killed one Tatar prince. Hence, Timuchin was rewarded by Jurchens. When Naimans robbed Timuchin clansmen, Timuchin sent 60 men to the Jukin clan for borrowing soldiers. Jukins killed ten and stripped the clothes of the rest of Timuchin men. Because of this, Timuchin campaigned against them and killed the Jukin princes including Buri his own kinsman in AD 1196-1197.

Wang'gu
When Naimans tried to attack Timuchin, Tayang-khan had sent an emissary to a place near the Great Wall and Jurchen Jin for forging an alliance with a group of people called Wang'gu. This group of people were said to be different from the Mongols. There is speculation that they might be related to the earlier Shatuo Turks. Wang'gu chieftan, however, arrested the emissary and sent the prisoner to Timuchin. When Timuchin attacked the Naimans, the Wang'gu chieftan came along as an ally.

Jadarats and Genghis Khan's blood-brother Jamuka
When Timuchin was 11 years old, he played with Jamuka of the Jadarat clan on the Onon river. The two should be considered kinsmen, and that's why the word clan, not tribe, is used here. They were anda, i.e., blood brothers. When the Merkits abducted Borte, Timuchin sought help with Toghrul of the Keraits whom Jamuka had also allied with. Jamuka raised 20,000 people, plus another 20,000 people from Toghrul's Keraits. According to Secret History, Jamuka raised 10,000 men from Timuchin's clans and another 10,000 from among his own people. Jamuka entered the battlefield 3 days ahead of Toghrul and played a decisive role in defeating the Merkits in AD 1184. After that, Jamuka and Timuchin camped together for about one and a half years and they slept under one blanket. However, they split after Jamuka found out that Timuchin had a bigger ambition and would not follow his lead. At the time they split, Jamuka had already lost some of the people whom he had raised from Timuchin clans for the battle against the Merkits.

When Timuchin rallied his people to have him selected as a khan, Jamuka officially declared a war on Timuchin. Timuchin had 13 clans under him, totaling close to 30,000 men. Timuchin split his forces into 13 groups for countering Jamuka. Jamuka's coalition consisted of the Tayichi'ut, the Ikires (a branch of Onggirats), the Uru'ud, the Noyakins, the Barulas and the Ba'arin (those clans or subclans are beyond my ken). Jumuka had defeated Timuchin and possibly forced him into seeking asylum inside of the Jurchen territory, till Timuchin rose again in AD 1196. In between, for about ten years, Timuchin's whereabouts were ambiguous and historians (see Paul Ratchnevsky) thought it was a taboo. After AD 1196, Timuchin would gain more and more people, while Jumuka would incur loss till he was betrayed over to Timuchin by his own people in the final.

Hearing that Timuchin and Toghrul had defeated Buirak Naiman and Tayichi'uts consecutively, Tatars, Katagin, Seljiuts, Duo-lu-ban, and Onggirat formed an alliance. But Onggirat chieftan secretly sent a messenger to Timuchin about the forthcoming allied attack. Timuchin and Toghrul then attacked the alliance. Timuchin attacked and defeated the Tatars. When Onggirat was wrongly attacked, Onggirat fled to Jumuka's Jadirat clan. In AD 1201, Jumuka was elected as Gur-khan, i.e., khan of all tribes, by his coalition of Katagin, Seljiuts, Duo-lu-ban, Onggirat, Yi-qi-la-si, and Huo-lu-la-si. Timuchin defeated the alliance, and Onggirat sought vassalage with Timuchin. Jumuka escaped. Then, Timuchin campaigned against two Tatar tribes: An'chi-Tatar and Chahan-Tatar.

Merkit chieftan, Tuotuo, had staged a comeback, and Timuchin defeated Tuotuo. Naiman Khan Buirak allied with Katagin, Seljiuts, Duo-lu-ban and Tatar. Jumuka's Jadirats clan came to the aid of Nuirak; but, seeing the Naiman defeat, Jumuka fled. Jumuka had sowed a disseion between Timuchin and Toghrul. Some of Timuchin kinsmen (An'dan and Huocha'er) defected to the prince of Toghrul. History of Yuan Dynasty mentioned that Toghrul and his son intended to assasinate Timuchin via an invitation for an inter-marriage banquet. Timuchin stopped half way. When Toghrul attacked Timuchin, Timuchin got advance information and defeated Toghrul. History of Yuan Dynasty stated that Toghrul had relatively more strength than Timuchin. After Timuchin defeated Toghrul, An'dan and Huocha'er fled to the Naimans. After another defeat, Toghrul fled towards the Naimans and was killed by the Naiman. Toghrul's son fled to Tanguts and pillaged Xixia people. When attacked by the Tanguts, Toghrul's son fled to Chouci in Chinese Turkistan and was killed by Chouci chief. Genghis Kan took over Kerait people and territory in AD 1203.

Tayang-khan's Naimans took over a small territory of Timuchin. Timuchin dispatched Hubilai and Chepe on a forerunner campaign against Tayang-khan. Tayang-khan, though allied with Merkits (Tuotuo), Jadirats (Jumuka), Kerait remnants (A'lingtaishi), Wei-la, Ji-la, Tatar remnants, Katagin and Seljiuts, lost the war to Timuchin. Tayang-khan died with all his soldiers. Jumuka, who first deserted the Toghrul's Keraits, would desert Tayang-khan's Naimans before this fight. Jumuka himself would be turned over by his own man and died in the hands of Timuchin's clan. Katagin, Seljiuts, Duo-lu-ban and remnant Tatars surrendered. When Timuchin continued on to attack Merkits, Tutuo fled to Buirak Khan Naimans. The Merkits fled but were defeated again in AD 1204 and the whole tribe was taken over by Timuchin. In AD 1206, Timuchin (Genghis Khan) held a grand assembly and received the title as Genghis Khan.

Tayichi'ut
Chinese description of the Mongolians applied the knowledge from the "Secret History". According to Secret History, Kabul-khan (Genghis Khan's great grandfather) was invited to Jurchen court in AD 1125 and offended Jurchen emperor Jin Xizong. He had 7 sons altogether, but in accordance with his wish at death, Ambakai was to rule all of Mongols. But according to Rashid, ad-Din (Collected Chronicles), Kabul-khan's son, Kutula, was made khan, while Ambaki was ruler of Tayichi'ut and hence not successor to Kabul-khan. Tayichi'ut could be traced either to the son (Caracqa-lingqum, i.e., Ambaki's father or according to Rashid, grandfather) or uncle (Nanchin) of Kaidu-khan. According to Secret History, Ambaki adopted the tribal name of Tayichi'ut. The Tayichi'ut had a very good relationship with the Kiyats and they belonged to the same category as the forest peoples.

The enmity between Tayichi'uts and Kiyats arose after the death of Yisugei (Timuchin's father), when the Tayichi'uts deserted the camp of Yisugei's widow. Yisugei's brothers left Ho'elun and the Genghis brothers for the Tayichi'ut clan. Speculation here is that Ho'elun might have rejected Yisugei brothers' demand to take her as their wife or concubine, which was the prevalent nomadic way of inheritance. Later, Genghis Khan (Timuchin), at about age 14-15, would murder his elder half-brother Bekhter and possibly got punished by the Tayichi'ut prince who had reportedly captured him and imprisioned him in a cage kept by individual households of the Tayichi'ut clan, till Timuchin found an opportunity to flee home. Aside from the Tayichi'uts, Timuchin had suffered tribulations in the hands of the Merkits, and the Tatars alike.

When Timuchin rallied his people to have him selected as a khan, Jamuka's coalition, consisting of the Tayichi'ut, the Ikires (a branch of Onggirats), the Uru'ud, the Noyakins, the Barulas and the Ba'arin, had defeated Timuchin and possibly forced him into seeking asylum inside of the Jurchen territory, till Timuchin rose again in AD 1196. A time period of about 10 years, up to AD 1196, had been missing for Timuchin, and some people (Chinese Zhao Hong) had speculated that he sought asylum inside of the Jurchen empire (see Zhong Hong per Paul Ratchnevsky). It would be in year AD 1200-1201 that Timuchin would exact his revenge on the Tayichi'uts on which occasion he defeated the Jumaka coalition including the Tayichi'uts and killed all Tayichi'ut men. The battle was waged near the Khalkha River and Jamuka lost it to Timuchin and Toghrul. While Toghrul went on to pursue Jamuka, Timuchin exacted revenge on the Tayich'uts who imprisoned him when he was a teenager: Timuchin slaughtered all the males of the Yayichi'ut clan and took in their women.

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In case you wonder the author of that site has the same verbal diarrhea disease as you
 

http://www.republicanchina.org/Mongols.html

So looks like they were Kirghiz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz

Look! A nordish Kirghiz!

Guess all races are related. I mean if a mongol can be kirghiz and a Kirghiz can be nordish then we are ALL more or less nordish or have some nordish ancestry. Race is therefore moot.

QED

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Those refer to HOW they LOOKED not to the fact that they were NORDISH. Were is the mention of NORDISH in those texts? Were is the evidence that their parents were "nordish" or even looked that way? All it shows is particularlity of features.

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Light eyes, light hair, and pale skin are NORDISH TRAITS. So is a tall, stocky build. If you didn't know this: Facial hair is virtually unknown amongst the Eastern Mongoloid populations. A large beard itself would be quite a stretch for someone claiming 0% Nordish ancestry, correct?

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BTW you call my stuff copy paste but you do a lot of that and do not even refer your sources and pass your postshit as your own work.

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Barber, E. W. (1999) The Mummies of Ürümchi (London: Macmillan).
Brent, P. (1976) The Mongol Empire: Genghis Khan, His Triumph and His Legacy (London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson).
Day, J. V. (2001) Indo-European Origins: The Anthropological Evidence (Washington, DC: Institute for the Study of Man).
Eickstedt, E. von (1934) Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit (Stuttgart: Ferdinand Enke Verlag).

Günther, H. F. K. (1934) Die nordische Rasse bei den Indogermanen Asiens (Munich: J. F. Lehmanns Verlag).
Lamb, H. (1928) Genghis Khan: The Emperor of All Men (London: Thornton Butterworth).
Lamb, H. (1929) Tamerlane: The Earth Shaker (London: Thornton Butterworth).
Paludan, A. (1998) Chronicle of the Chinese Emperors (London: Thames & Hudson).

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So basically anyone who is tall and pale complexion is AUTOMATICALLY Nordish?

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{bunch of crap}

See atl easlt I QUOTE my sources rather than pretend I wrote all that shit.

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Some quotes from your large text blob:

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...Genghis Khan differed from other Tartars in that he was tall and had long beard...Khubilai did have black eyes but fair complexion 'ringed with red'...Genghis Khan was amazed to see that Khubilai had black hair while the rest of their family had red hair and said his grandson must have taken 'his old uncles' features.

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And as for the "ringed with red", that is indicating rosy cheeks. Pretty mongoloid, eh?

And the whole "the rest of their family had red hair" tells me a lot too.

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Cai Dongfan stated that Bodunchar had grey eyes

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In case you wonder the author of that site has the same verbal diarrhea disease as you

http://www.republicanchina.org/Mongols.html

So looks like they were Kirghiz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz

Look! A nordish Kirghiz!

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Guess all races are related. I mean if a mongol can be kirghiz and a Kirghiz can be nordish then we are ALL more or less nordish or have some nordish ancestry. Race is therefore moot.

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Light eyes, light hair, and pale skin are NORDISH TRAITS.

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So is a tall, stocky build.

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A large beard itself would be quite a stretch for someone claiming 0% Nordish ancestry

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Do I think he had Nordish traits? Yes, I do. With that, you can assume that there was a white influence on the area they occupied.

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Are all whites nordish? Only some of them?
Are no blacks nordish?

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But, in your little world, lack of source AUTOMATICALLY means 100% false.

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Tall and long beard, hmmm. Aren't the vikings FAMOUS for being tall, strong, and having beards?

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And as for the "ringed with red", that is indicating rosy cheeks. Pretty mongoloid, eh?

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Here is a little viking girl wih rosy cheeks.

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And the whole "the rest of their family had red hair" tells me a lot too.

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http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/Red-Hair-t92652.html

That dude MUST HAVE nordish blood then?How aobout that person:

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My Great Grandmother lived in Shunde, China (aka Sun Dak) around 1895-1930. She married Sun Kee Wong a Chinese businessman in the silk business. The last name of her husband was Wong. Together she,her husband and their 7 children lived in Shunde or Sun Dak, China.

Shunde or Sun Dak is just outside of Canton and Foshan, China.

My Great Grandmother had red hair and red skin complexion.

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Look another black viking with nordish blood!!!

Never mind that melanasia was isolated for thousands of years...

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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So having THOS traits GUARANTEES that someone is nordish? Do we need ALL 3 or some them? How many traits do you need before you pass as Nordish?

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So Yao Ming is Nordish? Cool!!!

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And, again, nobody knows if he has white ancestry. You claim people can look white and be 30% Negro, why can't the same be said for Mongoloid and Nordish, especially with the Tocharian influence on the Chinese, and it's no secret that they had light eyed emperors.

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Ok what % nordish is this guy? He "CAN"T" be 0% right?

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And it's not a large beard, is it?

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why would it be white? All we estbalish is "nordish".

Are all whites nordish? Only some of them?
Are no blacks nordish?

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Nope it means 100% unproven for the debate we are having here.

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Sure. But are they the ONLY ONES? Does the guy in the pic above have some viking blood JUST BECAUSE he has a beard?

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Many Chinese men can go through life without ever shaving.

And if that man is Japanese or has Japanese ancestry. he may be part Ainu, the original inhabitants of Japan that had quite a few white features. They are still segregated against and viewed as inferior by the Eastern Mongoloids that invaded the region.

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Here is a little viking girl wih rosy cheeks.

Another nordish? you should tell them to get tested.

Look another black viking with nordish blood!!!

Never mind that melanasia was isolated for thousands of years...

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That dude MUST HAVE nordish blood then?How aobout that person:

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The guy only had a few red hairs anyway...

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My Great Grandmother...... red skin complexion.

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it just means you've had Nordish ancestry

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Do you know what stocky is? He looks like a damn toothpick, lol.

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oh looky a black guy with more nordish genes than his coach!

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why can't the same be said for Mongoloid and Nordish

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 And it's not a large beard, is it?

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Must be the statue of a nordish dude: the big eyes, the long beard, wait! WTF!!! why does he have thick negro lips!!!

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the Nordish subrace is a division of whites. If you have Nordish traits, you have white traits, as all Nordish traits are, indeed, White.

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So this is your "logic"?

ONLY nordish ppl have long beard.
ONLY white ppl can be nordish
Therefore if you have a long beard you MUST be white ancestry.

Your whole reasoning is a sack of shit.

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I still can't figure out if you think that China was isolated from the rest of the world, especially the whites...

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1. China was not isolated
2. Europe was not isolated
3. Africa was not isolated
4. We all share the same gene pool but got seperated after a while. Inside any population though you can find a LOT OF gene VARIATION and a lot of genes that are shared across populations.

The traits you mentioned can be found across various races REGARDLESS of ancestry. They are NEVER EXCLUSIVE to one particular race.

5. Most of the ppl we been talking about from the pics and the history could have some european ancestry but its not proven and therefore moot.

I mean until we make a DNA test of Genghis khan and King Tut we can't tell whats their genetic makeup. So anything that talks about their being nordish or not is just talking out of somebody's ass. with no real science proof to back it up.

If you understood shit about genetics, science or even basic logic, you would know that red hair or bland hair or long beard can appear in an individual or even a family or clan and it doesn't mean shit about whether they really have Asian, European or w/e ancestry.

But obv if you WANT to CONVINCE YOUR SELF that the ONLY reason any particular trait appears is BECAUSE of nordish/white ancestry then its just your right.

But dont try to sell that shit to ppl and expect them to buy it just because you or some batshit idiot on some website says so.

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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So thats the ONLY POSSIBLE explanation right?

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oh you mean this guy HAS to HAVE nordish ancestry?

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Sure! Why not. We all brothers man!

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Must be the statue of a nordish dude: the big eyes, the long beard, wait! WTF!!! why does he have thick negro lips!!!

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yeah pretty much confirmed you're an idiot.

So this is your "logic"?

ONLY nordish ppl have long beard.
ONLY white ppl can be nordish
Therefore if you have a long beard you MUST be white ancestry.

Your whole reasoning is a sack of shit.

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Long beards are almost always found in Nordish people. Having other Nordish qualities, the long beard itself could indicate that they have, at least some, nordish traits.

Why do you claim that whites can be almost 50% Negro and not know it, but Mongols can't have A DROP of Nordish blood?

And Nordish is a DIVISION of whites. If you're nordish, you're white. One or two Nordish traits doesn't make you Nordish, it just claims you have NORDISH ANCESTRY.

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1,2,3) Of course, which is why many races roamed those regions.

4) We don't share the same gene pool. Yes, we're one species, but we are divided by race.

If they have white traits, they have white ancestry. Over 100,000 years of evolution, again, can't happen in 9 months.

5) Tut was reconstructed and deemed "Caucasoid" by the leading anthropologist experts of the world(USA) and French and Egyptian Anthropologists.

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But obv if you WANT to CONVINCE YOUR SELF that the ONLY reason any particular trait appears is BECAUSE of nordish/white ancestry then its just your right.

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