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Quote: from Forever Angel at 4:04 am on Sep. 6, 2008

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Quote: from jakelong at 11:18 pm on Sep. 5, 2008

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ask Paris Hilton if she ever worked to get her money.

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But I'd bet she has still already paid more income tax than you will in your entire life.

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and she'll never have to WORK for it.  

 

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And the money she has did come about through someone's work and has already been taxed several times.

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yeah through the work of all the mexican immigrants hired by Hilton to clean toilets and take out the trash and make the beds every day.

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I don't get how you can justify the work you do for the lower taxes you pay.

If you didn't receive pay for the work and instead just worked to make up the deficit in taxes between you and your employer I would be fine with that. As long as you are receiving a wage though you cannot equate work to paying taxes.

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  Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already-like
a wheel revolving uniformly-by
  the love that moves the sun and the other stars.

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... the rich  just sit in their A/C office and talk all day about how to squeeze nickels from the poor.

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You're full of bullshit.

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Bohica

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I highly doubt you don't have any form of a savings account. I have a savings account that has the minimum balance of $20 in it.

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 Even on a very basic level your mom claims you as a dependent hence avoiding many taxes. I don't know your family story but your parents may file jointly to pay less.

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Actually my grandma does my taxes for me but she does work there.

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No I pay nowhere near that in taxes. The point still remains. Why should someone have to pay more in taxes in a year than you will even make in 5 or 6 years let alone pay in taxes.

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If the rich actually paid what they owed then the numbers would go even higher.

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If you don't want to do menial tasks for low wages the rest of your life then make yourself valuable.

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People that made something of themselves shouldn't have to pick up the tab for those that didn't.

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Really? You've sat in on these meetings? .

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they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl"

so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit.

meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans.

yeah thats how they "work"

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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you think ppl who work in the fields and in the docks and in constrcution and clean the toilets a NOT valuable?

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:55 pm on Sep. 6, 2008

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Really? You've sat in on these meetings? .

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ask those who do and they'll tell you. how do they decide on rising prices of gas and food and rent?  

they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl"  

so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit.  

meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans.  

yeah thats how they "work"

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I don't have to ask. I have sat in on some of those meetings.

Post edited at 6:17 pm on Sep. 6, 2008 by Forever Angel

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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking

Bohica

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nope we don't.

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my parenst are divorced.

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well that explains a lot.  

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becaus they're rich and they should pay what they owe?  

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Yeah there'd be MORE tax money in the coffer for everyobdy else.

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Once again why should the rich have to support others?

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you think ppl who work in the fields and in the docks and in constrcution and clean the toilets a NOT valuable?

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Ok look. Your drive and your education gives you value. You choose to go to college your worth goes up. You drop out of high school your value goes down. Simple as that. It's a decision people make. It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor.

On a side note my whole family is in the construction industry. People like framers, roofers, etc. are very intelligent people and most attend trade schools before they are even considered for a job. Therefor they are paid relatively well.

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What Paris hilton does thats valuable to society?

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You're very right. Some people are really lucky. Some people catch a brake or ride others success and it can be annoying to see but it's just a fact of life.

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  Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already-like
a wheel revolving uniformly-by
  the love that moves the sun and the other stars.

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oh yeah thats right we measure ppl by how muh money they got. The more money the more "valuable". sorry I was thinking like a christian for a minute. forgot to think like a capitalis.

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No, there's a difference between someones value and how much money they have. Paris Hilton for instance, she has a lot of money but a very low value.

Think about it this way. Would you pay someone the same salary a doctor makes to clean toilets?

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  Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already-like
a wheel revolving uniformly-by
  the love that moves the sun and the other stars.

---

oh yeah thats right we measure ppl by how muh money they got.

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ask those who do and they'll tell you. how do they decide on rising prices of gas and food and rent?  

they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl"  

so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit.  

meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans.

yeah thats how they "work"

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Do you understand how the free market works? Say a company makes a toilet. This toilet costs them $20 to make and they sell it for $100 for a $80 profit. Well that's fine for a little but soon another guy says hey, I can make that toilet for $20 dollars. I'll just sell it at $90 dollars and steal all their competition.

Then the first will try to undercut them. and so on until the prices are low. Businesses make money on volume not price of their product.

It's illegal to get together and say ok we'll all charge the same for the same toilet and split business.

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  Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already-like
a wheel revolving uniformly-by
  the love that moves the sun and the other stars.

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Once again why should the rich have to support others?

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so the tax thing is a way to give back to the community and the country. thats why a lot of rich ppl get away from taxes by giving to charity.

its good things of course but the problem with charity is that sometimes ppl just give to charity that obeys what they want and leave others out.  

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You choose

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It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor.  

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and alot of ppl clean toilets not because they did not "choose" to go to college. a lot of ppl are immigrants and start from scratch amnd work hard at whatver they can and they do. you can't spit on thier face just because they dd not get to be doctors. everybody's work is valuable. its not as fancy or pay as much as ppl think but its still valuable.  

and some doctors are pretty shitty. a good plumber is more valuable to society than a bad doctor or a crooked banker.  

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People like framers, roofers, etc. are very intelligent people and most attend trade schools before they are even considered for a job. Therefor they are paid relatively well.  

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some people start at the bottom because they com from other countries already poor and they didn't have a chance to go to college or trade scholl and have to support their family anyway. not everyone who is at the bottom of the barrel is there by choice or because they are lazy or worthless.

Post edited at 7:48 pm on Sep. 6, 2008 by jakelong

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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because everyone else supported them to where they are? they wouldn't be rich if there was not ppl working for measley pay for them and the education they got and all the ppl along the way that helped them get there directly or not. they did not get rich all by themselves. I know alot of ppl talk about "self-made" man but a lot of ppl helped that amn no matter how you slice it.

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so the tax thing is a way to give back to the community and the country. thats why a lot of rich ppl get away from taxes by giving to charity.

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A lot of rich people are very charitable. The fact still remains that they shouldn't be forced to give up their money.

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its good things of course but the problem with charity is that sometimes ppl just give to charity that obeys what they want and leave others out.  

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Wouldn't you donate to something in your best interests?

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You choose a lot of ppl cant AFFORD to go to college, they can't just "choose" that.

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Do you know how much financial aid is out there for things like this? Scholarships, grants. You know how easy it is to get a student loan? If that all fails, join the military. Serve your country and they'll put you through college.

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It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor.  without someone to clan the place up the doctor will have a lot of sick ppl dying.  

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Supply and demand applies exactly the same here. As the supply of uneducated toilet cleaners in this country goes down the price of that service will go up.

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and alot of ppl clean toilets not because they did not "choose" to go to college. a lot of ppl are immigrants and start from scratch amnd work hard at whatver they can and they do. you can't spit on thier face just because they dd not get to be doctors. everybody's work is valuable. its not as fancy or pay as much as ppl think but its still valuable.  

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College is not the only way to improve you value. If you start at a job cleaning toilets and work hard at it. You may be moved up to cleaning the cubicals of an office building. If you that really well you can be promoted to something like the leading the cleaning team at an office building. If you work hard at maybe one day you can be a manger. At this point maybe they'd be able to afford to go to school.

I'm not spitting on the face of the little people.

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and some doctors are pretty shitty. a good plumber is more valuable to society than a bad doctor or a crooked banker.  

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sure. but not as much as doctors. and they not as rich as paris hilton right?

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Going to a trade school to be a framer is in no way the same as attending a University and then going to a graduate school. We've already established that some people are lucky.

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some people start at the bottom because they com from other countries already poor and they didn't have a chance to go to college or trade scholl and have to support their family anyway. not everyone who is at the bottom of the barrel is there by choice or because they are lazy or worthless.

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Like I said before. Starting at the bottom doesn't mean you can't work your way up. There are a lot of opportunities out there you just have to work hard to reach them.

There are a lot of employers that will train a good person for a better job. Say you get a job cleaning up trash on a construction site. You work very hard at it and do the best you can. There's a lot of employers that will say hey, this is a great guy and he works very hard I would much rather put him through school and hire him to be a framer rather than higher some random guy off of the street.

On the other hand I think it's wrong that we hand well fare and social security checks off to drug addicts and high school drop outs that have no ambition in there lives and dont wanna work to improve themselves.

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  Here force failed my high fantasy; but my
desire and will were moved already-like
a wheel revolving uniformly-by
  the love that moves the sun and the other stars.

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Unless in the case of public schooling.

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A lot of rich people are very charitable.

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The fact still remains that they shouldn't be forced to give up their money.

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Wouldn't you donate to something in your best interests?

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Do you know how much financial aid is out there for things like this? Scholarships, grants.

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You know how easy it is to get a student loan?

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If that all fails, join the military. Serve your country and they'll put you through college.

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Supply and demand applies exactly the same here. As the supply of uneducated toilet cleaners in this country goes down the price of that service will go up.

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If you work hard at maybe one day you can be a manger.

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At this point maybe they'd be able to afford to go to school.

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There's a lot of employers that will say hey, this is a great guy and he works very hard I would much rather put him through school and hire him to be a framer rather than higher some random guy off of the street.  

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On the other hand I think it's wrong that we hand well fare and social security checks off to drug addicts and high school drop outs that have no ambition in there lives and dont wanna work to improve themselves.

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but hey there are leeches at the top and at the bottom of the scale.  

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

Post edited at 8:46 pm on Sep. 6, 2008 by Takinam