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i THINK i would right? i mean...i have though it over for a long time and i've been bapitised and i DO believe, its just that i hate myself VERY much, and i don't think i have the guts to handle life anymore. All the answers lead to more questions, all the treatments lead to medication for the side effects, friends, out of nowhere, say harsh things, even thought you're always the nice guy. I think i'm a lost cause, and i just want to know if i'll go to hell, i never killed anyone, well except myself...soon, in the future, maybe.

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This quote was taken by duesxmachina in his previous topic stated in the Serious Forum, which I am sadly unable to answer directly via this particular issue, but perhaps the rest of us shall be enlightened enough to respond all the same.  Shall we?

First, I'd like to begin by saying that there is not a single verse within scripture that speaks definitively or authoritatively on how suicide is a damnable offense.  In fact, the very notion of unpardonable offenses spoken is scripture is MAT 12:30-32 (NIV) for which no forgiveness can given.

Why is that precisely?  In order for one to be forgiven of past, current and future transgressions is to accept teachings that speak directly toward a fulfillment of scripture through which Jesus, himself, is the culmination of previous prophetic notions.  Not only is Jesus sought as a Davidic and/or Messianic Hope expressed in 2 SAM 7:16 (NIV) as an "...enduring legacy..." (Note: Not eternal) under which submission is anticipated and accepted between followers of Davidic covenant and subsequent adherence thereafter by his seed.  After the Babylonian diaspora (605, 598, 587/6 BC) in 537 BC, Judaism is afforded their individual freedoms under Persian kingship.  Once they were able to return to their Holy Land, they were entitled to their individual rules, but they would never again be given freedom under their original David covenant.  Therefore, they sought to have one capable of restoring their former glory and adherence.

Unfortunately, Jesus never seem to please anyone.  Even now, there's great speculation over whether or not he existed entirely.  For such claims, simply denying the validity and authenticity of current religious texts to describe original context is not only laughable, but poor textual scholarship.  In saying this, for one to speak against Jesus or the gift of eternal forgiveness openly is to forsake freely given forgiveness for previous transgressions.

Does one who takes their own life violate forgiveness directly or indirectly?  No, unless it is their intention beforehand to speak against freely given forgiveness; which suicide is merely a factor in order to equate one's passing prior to judgment, not a damnable offense itself.  I can count a number of instances in scripture where men and women kill themselves over a number of theological issues whether by knowingly speaking against HIS people, seeking relief from wartime losses by falling under their own swords, hanging themselves after they've betrayed Christ, etc.  Never is it spoken in scripture where suicide itself is a damnable offense.  Never.  And for members of Christendom or the peanut gallery to speak otherwise is speaking purely from extra-Biblical sources and philosophy several centuries following Christ's birth-teachings-persecution-sacrifice-resurrection-ascension, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, a Christian philosopher a greater majority of LiveWire members whether atheist, agnostic, Christian, etc. seem to quote most often by their own knowledge or not is Augustine of Hippo where he not only rejects the subsequent freedom of a Christian at the expense of God and his unwaivering omniscience.  For one to openly speak from any perceived authority must ultimately come to he knowledge that one's willingness to take their own lives is subject by their own ambition and action.  And if anyone claims that they know the outcome from such action besides perception or mere assumption, not dictation or authority.

To quote Luther from the 2003 film Luther: "Some people say that according to God's justice, this boy is damned because he took his life.  I say it was overcome by the devil.  Is this child any more to blame for the despair that overtook him than an innocent man who is murdered by a robber in the woods?  God must be mercy.  God is mercy."

I may not agree thoroughly with his individual Theological stance over a number of issues, but I will agree by saying that God is mercy if not fair.  And for man to speak otherwise is not God, nor should ever claim exhaustive affiliation unless prophetically.  By this criteria, the peanut gallery is subsequently disregarded.

To answer the OP:  No, suicides do not automatically go to Hell, but one's affiliation by which the Holy Spirit is measured between the individual adherer and the Lord, our God.

Post edited at 9:08 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 by fenrir

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"How incitful of you, dwarf. Though I can't speak for fenrir,
I beleive that he too has a certain degree of sarcasm
and humor in his posts." - Prince o palities

Theres a bit of a difference their.  But to answer the question..I really dont know.

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So here's my goodbye, no one will cry over me.

I'm not worth any tears.

Here is the question I would ask: Should we hold reverent a god who would condemn us for something like that?

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Out of smoke then he appears

Master of disguise.