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"goes against the supportive atmosphere this site strives to offer"  |
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 Replies: 99 — Last Post Sep. 25, 2008 11:19am by Forever Angel
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( iconoclast )
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Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:01 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:34 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 1:32 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:27 am on Sep. 20, 2008
no you missed the point i was saying how they always put this in the banning reason when most of this site has nothing to do with support is bullshit
No, I full well understood that. However, there is a difference between not providing any kind of support, than to add something that is quite the opposite or otherwise offense or unnecessary.
yeah okay, but if the area isnt about support who cares if they spam rude shit in a support topic, then fair enough
It comes down to having one completely set standard. No inbetweens, no having to judge, "this topic is supportive or it isn't". You have to adhere to a very strict set of rules, because the more lenient you are, the more ability there is to find "loop holes".
why not just be reasonable
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11:02 am on Sep. 20, 2008 | Joined: April 2005 | Days Active: 794
Join to learn more about iconoclast New Jersey, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 37,384 | Points: 48,394
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 LiveWire Humor
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Just Waiting Here
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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 11:02 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:01 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:34 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 1:32 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:27 am on Sep. 20, 2008
no you missed the point i was saying how they always put this in the banning reason when most of this site has nothing to do with support is bullshit
No, I full well understood that. However, there is a difference between not providing any kind of support, than to add something that is quite the opposite or otherwise offense or unnecessary.
yeah okay, but if the area isnt about support who cares if they spam rude shit in a support topic, then fair enough
It comes down to having one completely set standard. No inbetweens, no having to judge, "this topic is supportive or it isn't". You have to adhere to a very strict set of rules, because the more lenient you are, the more ability there is to find "loop holes".
why not just be reasonable
Reasonable is all subjective, and everyone has different views of reasonable. When you have such a large group of people, it's hard to set an 'inbetween', because that leads room for interpretation and problems. While it may seem like something minor, something very small can become very large when used by several different people in different ways.
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( iconoclast )
corporate drone
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Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:04 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 11:02 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:01 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:34 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 1:32 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:27 am on Sep. 20, 2008
no you missed the point i was saying how they always put this in the banning reason when most of this site has nothing to do with support is bullshit
No, I full well understood that. However, there is a difference between not providing any kind of support, than to add something that is quite the opposite or otherwise offense or unnecessary.
yeah okay, but if the area isnt about support who cares if they spam rude shit in a support topic, then fair enough
It comes down to having one completely set standard. No inbetweens, no having to judge, "this topic is supportive or it isn't". You have to adhere to a very strict set of rules, because the more lenient you are, the more ability there is to find "loop holes".
why not just be reasonable
Reasonable is all subjective, and everyone has different views of reasonable. When you have such a large group of people, it's hard to set an 'inbetween', because that leads room for interpretation and problems. While it may seem like something minor, something very small can become very large when used by several different people in different ways.
if we stop having fags as moderators there wouldnt be much trouble theres always gonna be a little disagreement
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join this group only if youre a mod
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11:06 am on Sep. 20, 2008 | Joined: April 2005 | Days Active: 794
Join to learn more about iconoclast New Jersey, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 37,384 | Points: 48,394
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jamesish
http://tinyurl.com/nowishingwe
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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 2:06 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:04 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 11:02 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 2:01 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:34 am on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 1:32 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:27 am on Sep. 20, 2008
no you missed the point i was saying how they always put this in the banning reason when most of this site has nothing to do with support is bullshit
No, I full well understood that. However, there is a difference between not providing any kind of support, than to add something that is quite the opposite or otherwise offense or unnecessary.
yeah okay, but if the area isnt about support who cares if they spam rude shit in a support topic, then fair enough
It comes down to having one completely set standard. No inbetweens, no having to judge, "this topic is supportive or it isn't". You have to adhere to a very strict set of rules, because the more lenient you are, the more ability there is to find "loop holes".
why not just be reasonable
Reasonable is all subjective, and everyone has different views of reasonable. When you have such a large group of people, it's hard to set an 'inbetween', because that leads room for interpretation and problems. While it may seem like something minor, something very small can become very large when used by several different people in different ways.
if we stop having fags as moderators there wouldnt be much trouble there's always gonna be a little disagreement
And if the mods were nicer, a lot of people would be pissed. Its a lose, lose situation. At least for people opposed to authority.
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12:10 pm on Sep. 20, 2008 | Joined: Jan. 2008 | Days Active: 543
Join to learn more about jamesish South Carolina, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 24,093 | Points: 38,951
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marshmellowman
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Quote: from jamesish at 8:10 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
And if the mods were nicer, a lot of people would be pissed. Its a lose, lose situation. At least for people opposed to authority.
The moderators aren't nice? They are only 'aggressive' if the person talking to them is acting like a complete nonce. People just get annoyed at them because they either don't understand the rules, or just think that it doesn't apply to them.
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and victorious in war shall be made glorious in peace.
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jamesish
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Quote: from marshmellowman at 3:24 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from jamesish at 8:10 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
And if the mods were nicer, a lot of people would be pissed. Its a lose, lose situation. At least for people opposed to authority.
The moderators aren't nice? They are only 'aggressive' if the person talking to them is acting like a complete nonce. People just get annoyed at them because they either don't understand the rules, or just think that it doesn't apply to them.
Exactly. So they get mad when mods correct their wrong doings and other people will get mad if they're not corrected. Edit: O, and I didn't say they weren't nice. I said, "nicer." Post edited at 12:27 pm on Sep. 20, 2008 by jamesish
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12:26 pm on Sep. 20, 2008 | Joined: Jan. 2008 | Days Active: 543
Join to learn more about jamesish South Carolina, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 24,093 | Points: 38,951
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Annabell Lee
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some mods obviously think that a few infractions outweigh massive support.
some mods are obviously fucking retarded.
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It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
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Forever Angel
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Quote: from marshmellowman at 2:24 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Quote: from jamesish at 8:10 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
And if the mods were nicer, a lot of people would be pissed. Its a lose, lose situation. At least for people opposed to authority.
The moderators aren't nice? They are only 'aggressive' if the person talking to them is acting like a complete nonce. People just get annoyed at them because they either don't understand the rules, or just think that it doesn't apply to them.
Not quite true.
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"God does not play dice" - Albert Einstein
"God does play dice" - Stephen Hawking
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marshmellowman
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 9:58 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Not quite true.
Maybe perhaps with you, which is quite understandable, but if you've done nothing wrong I've only exhibited them to be nice. I'm sure they get annoyed with individual members who have proven time and time again to be a pain in the backside, but I've not seen a case where they were harsh without due cause. That's not to say it doesn't happen, which it might as moderators are humans and they're not infallible, just rare.
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and victorious in war shall be made glorious in peace.
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marshmellowman
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 10:23 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Thanks a lot, lol.
You're very welcome.
But being a pain in the ass does not mean 'being wrong'. And some of the Mods have a tendency to pull the "shut up and go away" ploy when they begin to see that they may be on the wrong side of the issue in question.
No, it doesn't. But if the member isn't acting constructively no matter how sincere their argument is to them, a pain in the ass is still a pain in the ass. Take prisoner of hss as an example. He seems to be dedicated to this site by suggesting ways to 'improve' it, but spams and ridicules everything and can act like a general douche. Then he goes on and on about saying this site is a cesspit and that why anyone even bothers if it's the Internet, yet he seems to bother himself. Mods aren't correct all of the time, but in moderation cases they do have the upper hand because they know how to moderate better than the members for obvious reasons. If a person makes an MER and another mod agrees with the original, then it's unlikely they made a mistake. Some posts may be on the fence and are more open to interpretation than others, then the mods will discuss it together in their forum. Sometimes they do make legitimate mistakes, and we hope that these are rectified. But if a member doesn't submit an MER, no matter how they complain in the forums nothing can be done about it. Then there's the case with people making idiotic misconduct reports because they are annoyed with the member, who hasn't done anything wrong according to the guidelines. If people made serious suggestions that didn't waste their time they probably wouldn't act that way with certain members. Even in real life you get tired of a person being irritating and constantly whinging, perhaps to the degree that you tell them to stfu, even if they may have another side to their personality. If their MER comes back as not being ruled in their favour, they should use that as a more accurate guideline as to what isn't acceptable. People have a habit of not being able to interpret the guidelines correctly, even if moderators make it very clear what is or isn't allowed.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is a very fitting statement for some here.
Assuming there is corruption, which there isn't.
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and victorious in war shall be made glorious in peace.
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marshmellowman
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Quote: from Forever Angel at 11:05 pm on Sep. 20, 2008
Please look up what that quote actually means.
An observation which isn't always true. Sometimes things seem to be one way because of the public views of moderators. While it might appear that a moderator acts unreasonably and is just abusing their powers, we are biased as being members and not seeing their side of the story (similarly they may be biased being moderators - but they have the experience of knowing when to take action and what to do). They aren't right 100% of the time, but to say that they abuse their powers and start tripping over what they can do is wrong. Nor do they have infinite power, they are limited by what David has coded as well as David himself and the OB (though that does seem to do fuck all), as well as what they have to agree on together to perform certain actions (such as a DoS).
I've had conversations with a few Mods. Some are reasonable and some simply aren't. You seem to want to make some silly argument that by virtue of having a Blue Name that they have suddenly transcended all members in wisdom and intelligence. Just going through some of the Mod responses in this forum will debunk that idea.
I don't make that argument. What I do think is that they better know how to moderate this site with their understanding of the rules than normal members. I'm not saying all of them are sage and wise to the infinite degree, what I am saying is that they know how to do their jobs better than those that have never held the position. It's also worthwhile to note that most of the topics in this forum are a waste of space anyway because members simply can't read the PM they get when an action is taken against them or they don't understand it. I feel frustrated when a person PMs me after removing their reply, once again having to explain what they did wrong when it's in the bloody automated message. Their upset at members not understanding when they've been told so is understandable, hence their replies may not be eloquent.
As far as "getting annoyed" at some members for some less than intelligent things... it's understandable, but... they knew going in that it would be their job to put up with those members and they applied for the job anyway. Now, since they have the power, they (some of them) use it to intimidate instead of "provide support". Check the guidelines, not one says "don't argue with the Mods". Then check the Moderator Code of Conduct. There are NO "unless" clauses there. If you have designs on becoming a Mod, please keep that in mind...
Yes, they do, that doesn't make it any easier to put up with. People apply to be police officer knowing full well that they may have to deal with abusive and restless members of the public, that doesn't mean they enjoy putting up with it or that they find it any easier to deal with. Sometimes they will get seriously annoyed and they use their powers, such as using tasers, baton or CS gas against the person to control them. Yes, it can be excessive at times, and sometimes it may only appear to be excessive, we can't really judge unless we are in their situation fearing our lives. It may not say don't argue with the mods, but when a member is just refusing to accept the fact that they're wrong, or nothing will change and they constantly whine doing nothing productive it is understandable they'd get fed up. This website has changed a lot and so have the members, the guidelines haven't been updated in 3 years, sometimes they have to do things which may not be specified, but it helps them do their job. Maybe that means intimidating a member, though I'm basing this on your words and not my experience, but if it gets a member to realise that they're wrong and gets them to shut up, perhaps its for the betterment of LiveWire. It may not be right, but David is (or should be) there to take action if he deems them to be acting incorrectly. "our moderators retain the right to act in their best judgment, even if their actions do not fall neatly within the scope of the guidelines" A lot of people fail to realise or understand this sometimes, which is where arguments erupt. Moderators aren't saints, neither are policemen, and you can't expect them to be perfect even if they're supposed to be. They are human and they do make mistakes. Post edited at 3:57 pm on Sep. 20, 2008 by marshmellowman
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and victorious in war shall be made glorious in peace.
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