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But, even without applying to racial standards, there shouldn't be race involved at all.

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They do often say that the privilege of being able to ignore race is a white privilege in and of itself, as they do claim that white people are not judged negatvely by their race.  As a result, they can go about their lives ignoring race and its effects on their everyday lives (including privileges), but non-whites cannot as the negative judgments against their race looms over them in every moment of their lives.

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Quote: from Minnick at 9:34 am on Nov. 13, 2008

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But, even without applying to racial standards, there shouldn't be race involved at all.

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They do often say that the privilege of being able to ignore race is a white privilege in and of itself, as they do claim that white people are not judged negatvely by their race. As a result, they can go about their lives ignoring race and its effects on their everyday lives (including privileges), but non-whites cannot as the negative judgments against their race looms over them in every moment of their lives.

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That is stupid to me. Really stupid.

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Ich werde immer bei dir sein

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That is stupid to me. Really stupid.

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Oh, it certainly makes sense on some level.  After all, if all you see is the positive, then you are generally less likely to attribute it to your race, and instead, attribute it to yourself.  In other words, as a result of it, you wouldn't so readily perceive it.

But a non-white, on the other hand, is bombarded with the constant negatives surrounding their race.  While it is as unrecognizable as the positives for whites, a non-white person generally wouldn't attribute it to themselves (for we usually don't associate such things with our own individual selves, especially if we see no reasoning for it), and instead, attribute it to their race.  In other words, they more readily perceive it.

So to say to "ignore race" to a non-white is a sign of white privilege because how can they ignore race when that is going on?  It's not so easy behind an entirely different viewpoint...

Now, tell me where there are holes in this argument and what about it doesn't fit, making it "stupid."

BTW: Do realize that I'm playing devil's advocate here.

Bud, you may be playing DA in that last post, but it looks fairly dead-on to me, although I think POC do attribute a lot of racial stereotypes to themselves, internalized racism is a real thing.

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LW's resident eccentric radical.

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Yes, white privilege plays a role in my life. I'm a person of color, but especially in winter I am very light skinned and can pass for white. I have skin privileges, although my position is not the same as a white person's.

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Haha, what? You're a paleface, end of story. I've met Western Slavs with a more bronze tan than you.

"I can go into a music store and find music representing my race"
"I can eaisly buy posters, (etc) featuring members of my own race"

You think only white people can do that?

I stopped reading about halfway through, it was getting ridiculous.

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http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

I found an interesting list of all the different daily things a professor of Wellesley College produced that she apparently feels reflects white privilege

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1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

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2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

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Nope. I live in a bad hood so avoiding thugs/gangs is not that easy.

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3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

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Nope not now I can't. Maybe one day when I get a job as engineer.

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4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

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If you call living an area where gangs rule the night "neutral or pleasent"

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5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

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Hah that'd be the day!

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6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

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7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

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In school it's touch and go. I was told about the latino heritage. Not that much about the filipino heritage and a lot about Irish heritage. But not really connected to "cinilization" or "national heritage" as much (even my irish side)

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8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

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9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

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10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

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11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

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12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

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13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

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14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

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15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

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16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

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17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

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18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

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19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

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20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

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21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

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22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

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23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

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24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

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25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

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26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

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27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

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28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

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29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

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30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

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31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

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32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

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33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

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34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

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35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

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36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

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37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

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38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

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39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

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40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

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41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

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42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

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43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

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44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

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45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

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46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

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47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

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48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

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49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

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50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

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1. Some of them are not always related to race necessary.

#2, 3, 4, 5, 14 has more to do with how much money you got and where you can live, Some nonwhites and some whites won't have it because they live in shitty places.

#27, #37 and #47-50 kinda depends on how you fit in with ppl around you. I bet some whites might have trouble sometimes too.

2. Some of the "problems" in the list only matter for ppl who make a big deal about race

Ex: #1, 6, 7, 8, 12, 24, 26, 44, 45, 46

3. Some things should be done by everyone no matter their race in the 21 century world really

Ex: #11 (ppl can be causal but really they should care), #22 (ppl really should be educated about the rest of the world more)

4. Other things should be had by everyone and yeah its often more a problem for nonwhites than whites but not always and it don't have to be something ppl obsess over either,

But thats where I see more difference in general yeah.

Ex: #10, #13, #15-21, #25,#28-30, #38-43

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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snowfish:  

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Yes, white privilege plays a role in my life. I'm a person of color, but especially in winter I am very light skinned and can pass for white. I have skin privileges, although my position is not the same as a white person's.

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Haha, what? You're a paleface, end of story. I've met Western Slavs with a more bronze tan than you.

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and you're cute

seriously though, shut the fuck up. You don't know the first thing about indigenous identity politics and it's what I live every day. Colonization has changed the color of indians. We're all supposed to look like a cigar store indian at the same time that we were told to assimilate and become black or white skinned. As tribes change color, they have a paper genocide against them removing tribal recognition. Also, North America is a huge continent, so do you honestly believe that indians ever had the same skin range all across? My grandfather is a full blood and my grandmother a half blood, but could you tell from this photo?

All that outsiders want to see is some Edward Curtis photos which were never truths in the first place. An obsession with nostalgia has lead to an obsession with making sure that that which has been 'tragically lost' is completely dead, and I'm not going to accept any white definitions of my cultural authenticity. It's a cultural othering that made every indian have the same braids, nose, skin. I have a tribe who claims me and whom I claim, and the boxes of race that white assholes like yourself created were never meant to fit me, so I'm using equally imperfect terms that aren't from a colonizer's mouth to describe myself.

Post edited at 9:52 am on Nov. 17, 2008 by snowfish

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LW's resident eccentric radical.

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My grandfather is a full blood and my grandmother a half blood, but could you tell from this photo?

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The Amerind race is almost purely free of facial hair.

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"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

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My grandfather is a full blood and my grandmother a half blood, but could you tell from this photo?

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How sure are you that your grandfather was full?

The Amerind race is almost purely free of facial hair.

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wrong. That is mainly a myth propagated by Edward Curtis (whom I already mentioned) who would, in his photographic essays attempting to catpure the dying indian race, pay men to shave their facial hair because he thought it made them look more authentic.

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LW's resident eccentric radical.