---

And pagans,please!

Who would worship some thing they made by their own hands?? ok,wait a minute  
i might make a Statue of myself and worship it then,how about that? it will satisfy my ego,agree?

Why have they stopped?

Hello,he's dead.They can't meet him nor can they judge him..when someone dies,nothing's left of him.Messengers are Humans too.

---

A statue made by your own hands is still made of the matter of creation. Within a Hindu context, God is everywhere, so worshiping a graven image is no different than worshiping God directly. The statue isn't receiving your offerings - God is. Directly.

---

Besides Atheists of today relates Muhammad to Islam,meaning Islam is Terrorism so was Muhammad.This is such a lame and immature way of Hating someone you haven't even met.

---

I think you'll find much criticism and mockery of Muhammad comes from Christians. Not just Atheists.

---

Why your so concerned about my English,i know that Spanish is always popping up in my head but I'm cool with it.

---

Because your posts look like they were written by a retarded monkey.

---

Anyway,what you don't know is that there's sedition in the Middle East these days according to some Muslim men who "pretend" to fight for Islam.I'm against them by the way.

---

I know that. I also know that it turns out that there are a lot more people around the world who support these "pretenders" than it originally seemed...and that there aren't a whole lot of what you would call "real" Muslims who are willing to speak out against them.

---

I don't deny the similarities between Islam,Christianity and Judaism.As a matter of fact,they all are "Abrahamic Religions",Islam holds many beliefs and practices in common with Judaism and Christianity.

Koran,Bible and Torah are holy books,you said without mentioning them.

---

Thank you for acknowledging this. Now: what makes Islam more valid than Christianity or Judaism?

---

And pagans,please!

Who would worship some thing they made by their own hands?? ok,wait a minute
i might make a Statue of myself and worship it then,how about that? it will satisfy my ego,agree?

---

...are you seriously that thick?

The statue is a symbol of their deity. They aren't worshipping a statue. They are worshipping their deity who is symbolized by the statue. At any rate, 99% of pagans don't do that anymore, so my point still stands.

---

Why have they stopped?

Hello,he's dead.They can't meet him nor can they judge him..when someone dies,nothing's left of him.Messengers are Humans too.

---

So why do Muslims still think he's the perfect man? If he's dead and they can't meet him, how could they judge? It's possible that the entire Qu'ran is a lie and that he was actually a total shithead.

---

Besides Atheists of today relates Muhammad to Islam,meaning Islam is Terrorism so was Muhammad.This is such a lame and immature way of Hating someone you haven't even met.

They Just need to try reading Muhammad's life before Koran.or should i talk about that?

---

Let me point out that assuming that a person you've never met is the perfect man is also lame and immature.

You never answered my questions of what makes Islam more valid than any other religion.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Saying "The Qu'ran is more valid than the Bible or the Torah because the Qu'ran says that it's more valid than the Bible or Torah" does not answer my question. It instead merely furthers my rather founded belief that Muslims on the internet (note, for those of you about to say "OMG BIGOT!": the Muslims I know in real life are intelligent, articulate and can answer this question without saying "The Qu'ran is true because the Qu'ran says it's true!" I'm merely referring to Muslims on the internet) are all brainwashed.

---

---

Saying "The Qu'ran is more valid than the Bible or the Torah because the Qu'ran says that it's more valid than the Bible or Torah" does not answer my question. It instead merely furthers my rather founded belief that Muslims on the internet (note, for those of you about to say "OMG BIGOT!": the Muslims I know in real life are intelligent, articulate and can answer this question without saying "The Qu'ran is true because the Qu'ran says it's true!" I'm merely referring to Muslims on the internet) are all brainwashed.

---

Please can you not stereotype all Muslims on the internet. You do know Muslims on the internet, also exist in 'real life'.  

Post edited at 10:35 am on Oct. 16, 2008 by Sachacohen2

-------
**WWW.SAVETHEINTERNET.COM/**http://www.spychips.com/
****http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/*

---

It has been known for many years, and you can look it up yourself that the bible and the torah both had some words changed by it. This is known world wide. I want you to know that i am not trying to attack anyyones religion or purpose in life but just trying to answer youur question.

---

So you have the original copies of the manuscripts for the Bible and the Torah?

What's more, who's to say that the Qu'ran hasn't been changed? And wasn't Muhammed illiterate? How do you know that the message that was written down at the Qu'ran was what Muhammed was really saying? What if his scribes just made things up that they thought sounded better?

---

Please can you not stereotype all Muslims on the internet. You do know Muslims on the internet, also exist in 'real life'.

---

I'm waiting for this theory to be proven wrong. If you can bring a single, educated Muslim to this forum, who can think for him/herself and answer questions in something that resembles good English, I'll retract my statement. As it stands, however, in nine years of debating religion on the internet, I have never once seen an articulate, intelligent Muslim who wasn't clearly brainwashed and didn't speak some retarded version of pidgin. I'm convinced that they simply do not exist.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Mohammad was illeterate, all he did was just recite the Qur'an as the angel Gabriel read it to him and the scholars around him wrote it down.

---

How do you know that they wrote down what he said and not what they wanted to write down?

How do you know that he was reciting what the angel told him and not making stuff up as he went along?

How do you know that it was Gabriel and not Michael?

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

if she did do so then how is she gonna know the father of her child?? Women are sensitive creatures and very emotional,'n its for her own good health logically not to marry four men.I know some non-Muslim guys who are jealous because of this issue,well its kinda funny 'n immature to be honest.

Why can a man beat his wife?
Muhammad said in his Farewell Pilgrimage: My last recommendation to you is that you should TREAT WOMEN WELL. Truly they are your helpmates, and you have no right over them beyond that - EXCEPT IF THEY COMMIT A MANIFEST INDECENCY (fahisha mubina = adultery). If they do, then refuse to share their beds and beat them WITHOUT INDECENT VIOLENCE.Then, if they obey you, do not show them hostility any longer.you have a right over your women and they have a right over you. Your right over your women is that they not allow whom you hate to enter your bed nor your house. While their right over you is that you treat them excellently in their garb and provision."
Then he took the covenant from them and from us that they and we all heard and understood this from him, respectively, directly and indirectly, with his forefinger raised, and said: "O Allah! bear witness." (PBUH)

However,about Law and your opinion after reading Koran.Its a very hard thing to understand Islam,if not impossible.Actually,you  have to  communicate with Arab Muslims in the Middle East (Egypt-Saudi Arabia-Kuwait-Dubai is now like The US-meaning not that religious,so its not recommended in my opinion).
but what confuses you and makes you think that you've  been hoodwinked?? Specific verse/Aya??

Also,I'm not a bitchy girl so that my husband would hit me and go fuck some other "wife".I know who i am and I'm proud of it.

Your Q about Muhammad is very important but the answer is long,by the way his Umma (His followers and people who believed in him without seeing him) is the first to enter Paradise,though we're the last to receive the Message.Well,you want me to talk about Muhammad.mm.where do i start? ok.
If Muhammad was a Liar and Crazy like some people say,he wouldn't have waited  until he was forty to emerge with the claim of Prophet hood,would he?

whoever attempts to describe him says: I have-either before him or after him-never seen someone like him, upon him be peace and blessings.
He was generous,patient,compassionate,faithful,honest and a very noble man in his family.In his whole life, he did not seek any reward or profit for his own person.He was very poor and lived a very simple life.Muhammad was merciful toward all the creatures of God.When he sees a child crying,he would set beside him/her and share his/her feelings.He was moderate and modest in his relations with people, He was never angry with anybody because of what was done to him..Bedouins often came to his presence and behaved impolitely, but he did not even frown at them. (PBUH) ,enough?
Ice Hand,
whoever say Islam isn't "Freedom",this is not true.Because,Islam does not approve of monastic life.It came to secure justice and the well-being of mankind, but warns people against over-indulgence (this is my weak point actually,may god help me to get over it).Anyway,It is for this reason that many Muslims have chosen an ascetic life and still.Like his closest friends Abu Bakr,Umar and his cousin Ali.That's why we and them,prefer to live a simple life,to remind ourselves always that we're humans and our souls belong to Allah (The Almighty)

Those who saw the Messenger would say: 'One with such a face cannot lie.' that's what the very famous Jewish scholar (Abdullah Ibn Salam) said when he saw Muhammad
I did see him in a vision about 3 times,and i haven't forget his face,his clothes,his hair,his eyes,his hand,everything.Its not an easy thing by the way,i had to pray a lot,follow his teachings in prayer and Muhammad also said,he or she who will see me,shall be honest.,for, Satan doesn't imitate or take my appearance. (sadaka Rasul Allah PBUH)
His face reveals his heart and soul.You can feel the Goodness and Peace in his presence.
A lie has only a very short life,so he was no liar,that's for sure.

I also remember something i read in Islam (in The Sirah of Muhammad).When Muhammad was 9 years old.He and his uncle Abu Talib,reached Busra in Syria to visit a monk called Bahirah,Muhammad sat beneath a tree,and its branches bending over him.when Bahirah saw that,he left his hermitage and said (Men of Quraysh ! I have prepared food for you and i want you all to come,so they went to him,leaving the young prophet behind to mind their baggage under the tree as he was the youngest in the group.Bahirah noticed that and he said,People of Quraysh,do not let anyone not attend my feast.They told him that everyone was there except for a young boy,so he said (don't treat him like that and let him be present with us).Later,he had a little conversation with Muhammad and when he looked at his back,he found the seal of prophet hood between his shoulders in the very placed described in His book.So he went to his uncle and asked him:whats your relationship between you and this boy? he replied:he's my son..Bahirah said:No He is not your son,the father of this boy shouldn't be alive,so he admitted:he's my brother's son.Bahirah asked:then what about his father??
Abu Talib replied:He died while his mother was still pregnant with him.so Bahirah said: you speak the truth,now go back with your nephew to his country and protect him,for,by Allah,if they see him and know of him,they will hurt him badly.Great things are in store for your nephew so take him home quickly.

btw I'm happy I can speak Arabic and Spanish better than English,just focus on the subject,sister and try to criticize less on other people

---

exceed,why don't you admit it?
you won't believe in Islam and its hard for you if not impossible as well because you haven't read/understood The Koran.probably you did read in translations but in Arabic,it shall be quite clear.

btw I'm happy I can speak Arabic and Spanish better than English,just focus on the subject,sister and try to criticize less on other people

---

Dear creature.

This is not about me believing anything. This is about you articulating what makes Islam more valid than other religions. Are you capable of doing that or can I safely assume that you are mentally deficient to the point of requiring my pity?

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Quote: from whrocky5092 at 12:42 pm on Oct. 16, 2008

---

It has been known for many years, and you can look it up yourself that the bible and the torah both had some words changed by it. This is known world wide. I want you to know that i am not trying to attack anyyones religion or purpose in life but just trying to answer youur question.

---

So you have the original copies of the manuscripts for the Bible and the Torah?

What's more, who's to say that the Qu'ran hasn't been changed? And wasn't Muhammed illiterate? How do you know that the message that was written down at the Qu'ran was what Muhammed was really saying? What if his scribes just made things up that they thought sounded better?

---

Please can you not stereotype all Muslims on the internet. You do know Muslims on the internet, also exist in 'real life'.

---

I'm waiting for this theory to be proven wrong. If you can bring a single, educated Muslim to this forum, who can think for him/herself and answer questions in something that resembles good English, I'll retract my statement. As it stands, however, in nine years of debating religion on the internet, I have never once seen an articulate, intelligent Muslim who wasn't clearly brainwashed and didn't speak some retarded version of pidgin. I'm convinced that they simply do not exist.

---

Why don't you stop posting on this forum and post on other religion forums.  If you are serious (and you aren't), then I advise you to click on my link and register at that website.  Alternatively, you could try the Islam section over at Theology Web.  

---

Why don't you stop posting on this forum and post on other religion forums. If you are serious (and you aren't), then I advise you to click on my link and register at that website. Alternatively, you could try the Islam section over at Theology Web.

---

I wish it was just this website, but it's not. I was on Theology Web for a little while, but I didn't really get as much into it...I might check it out again.

Still, though...you'd think that with the traffic of ~5 different sites in the course of nine years, it would've been easier to come across someone who wasn't like cutemira or charmgirl.

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Quote: from whrocky5092 at 2:14 pm on Oct. 16, 2008

---

Mohammad was illeterate, all he did was just recite the Qur'an as the angel Gabriel read it to him and the scholars around him wrote it down.

---

How do you know that they wrote down what he said and not what they wanted to write down?

How do you know that he was reciting what the angel told him and not making stuff up as he went along?

How do you know that it was Gabriel and not Michael?

---

Because no human being can really come up and create the words that were in it. What reason do they have to forge wat he was saying. They were also muslims why would they lie. That would be just tricking yourself.

-------
Help build my minicity pls

---

Because no human being can really come up and create the words that were in it.

---

Have you ever heard of Joseph Smith?

---

What reason do they have to forge wat he was saying.

---

So that they could gain more political and religious influence and, therefore, be able to improve their own life situations or force society to move in the way they thought it should move.

---

They were also muslims why would they lie.

---

Why wouldn't they? They had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

---

That would be just tricking yourself.

---

How? You know it's not true, but you perpetuate it anyway because you know it'll get you money, land, glory, etc. Why not lie?

-------
Let yourself be enchanted,
You just might break through
To ever ever after

---

Quote: from whrocky5092 at 12:42 pm on Oct. 16, 2008

---

It has been known for many years, and you can look it up yourself that the bible and the torah both had some words changed by it. This is known world wide. I want you to know that i am not trying to attack anyyones religion or purpose in life but just trying to answer youur question.

---

So you have the original copies of the manuscripts for the Bible and the Torah?

What's more, who's to say that the Qu'ran hasn't been changed? And wasn't Muhammed illiterate? How do you know that the message that was written down at the Qu'ran was what Muhammed was really saying? What if his scribes just made things up that they thought sounded better?

---

Please can you not stereotype all Muslims on the internet. You do know Muslims on the internet, also exist in 'real life'.

---

I'm waiting for this theory to be proven wrong. If you can bring a single, educated Muslim to this forum, who can think for him/herself and answer questions in something that resembles good English, I'll retract my statement. As it stands, however, in nine years of debating religion on the internet, I have never once seen an articulate, intelligent Muslim who wasn't clearly brainwashed and didn't speak some retarded version of pidgin. I'm convinced that they simply do not exist.

---

No, this is fucking TEEN forum. Go to a proper Islamic forum, where you will meet a lot of educated Muslims speaking in 'good English'. And please remember most Muslins in the world live in  countries where English is not the first language. So don't think they're stupid if they can't speak English perfectly.

And when you say Muslims on the Internet are brainwashed, you sound ridiculous. This may come as a shock, but people on the internet are not imaginary but exist in real life too. I know I've said that before but I don't think you've understood that concept yet.  

Also you're the one who is clearly brainwashed into thinking Muslims on the Internet are idiots , if in all those nine years , you've never been able to accept any Muslim to be intelligent. You clearly judge them before giving them a chance to prove themselves.

And by the way I am a Muslim. But I don't give a shit if such a close minded person such as yourself thinks I am intelligent or not.


-------
**WWW.SAVETHEINTERNET.COM/**http://www.spychips.com/
****http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/*