In the below video, which is actual combat footage, taken from the camera of the platoon Sergeant's helmet, you will see be shown the death of British Army soldier, Private Chris Gray. You will see the reaction of the men around him as they try to save him, and you will see what the typical combat in Afghanistan is like. The platoon was ambushed by the Taliban, and the Taliban were less than 15 metres away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1otP5KWdI94

And below is the efforts made by the Chinook pilots dispatched to evacuate Chris Gray from the battlefield. There was a medical team in the back who would operate on Chris Gray in an attempt to save his life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACA8wJ6dRWM&feature=related

Private Chris Gray was 19, a career soldier. He died in Afghanistan, not a movie.

The Real War. Life at its rawest.

Post edited at 8:17 am on Nov. 3, 2008 by ElephantStone

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

war is a way of life, it's human nature. but i still don't think that war will profit us anymore than peace will.

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:)

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death is a horrible thing, but also a very normal one when it is not connected to war.

war is a way of life, it's human nature. but i still don't think that war will profit us anymore than peace will.

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Sure they're shocking videos of an untimely death of a young soldier in a very real war, but then.. What kind of reaction or response are you looking for?

Are you looking for some kind of "war is bullshit" diatribe or are you looking for something along the lines of "this man died for a noble cause"?

Life is hard. We know this, we get this. These videos are a wake-up call for some, but then, some of us already know of the harsh realities of life.

And it's not just war or fighting or people dying. It's sickness, it's hopelessness, it's government ignorance. It's poverty, guilt and betrayal of Self.

If you want a better reply than what I have offered, you really must ask yourself..

Why?  

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Genetics is fate. Change our genes, achieve free will.

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this is love

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You sound like you glorify war in a way. When I think of war, I wonder about the grave consequence of failure in communication.

Post edited at 5:10 pm on Nov. 4, 2008 by save the world

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 9:33 pm on Nov. 1, 2008

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this is love

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Exaggeration. The notion of war may contain some of the things you've mentioned, but love? Between whom? Soldiers? No, comradeship, friendship at most, but not love.

You sound like you glorify war in a way. When I think of war, I wonder about the grave consequence of failure in communication.

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Tell me if I'm wrong but wasn't there one war in history/myth started because of jealousy for a woman? I think this is what he meant.

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In any case, war is serious business. Romanticising it like that doesn't really work in a serious discussion.

Again, I disagree with putting 'war' and 'love' into the same bundle. One is about death, the other is about life. They simply don't go together.

Post edited at 3:13 pm on Nov. 6, 2008 by save the world

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 9:33 pm on Nov. 1, 2008

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this is love

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Exaggeration. The notion of war may contain some of the things you've mentioned, but love? Between whom? Soldiers? No, comradeship, friendship at most, but not love.

You sound like you glorify war in a way. When I think of war, I wonder about the grave consequence of failure in communication.

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But there is love between men in a combat situation. Im telling you, from what Ive read and who Ive talked to. The bond developed is something else and nothing less of love, because what drove Hans in 'The Forgotten Soldier' to walk through a russian town as german forces are retreating to look for Guy. Or why have soldiers sacrificed themseleves for the lives of the rest of their squad. There are millions of examples of love in war.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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We live, we die. We fight, we surrender. We laugh, we cry.

Sure they're shocking videos of an untimely death of a young soldier in a very real war, but then.. What kind of reaction or response are you looking for?

Are you looking for some kind of "war is bullshit" diatribe or are you looking for something along the lines of "this man died for a noble cause"?

Life is hard. We know this, we get this. These videos are a wake-up call for some, but then, some of us already know of the harsh realities of life.

And it's not just war or fighting or people dying. It's sickness, it's hopelessness, it's government ignorance. It's poverty, guilt and betrayal of Self.

If you want a better reply than what I have offered, you really must ask yourself..

Why?

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No I think you hit the nail on the head there.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 9:33 pm on Nov. 1, 2008

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this is love

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Exaggeration. The notion of war may contain some of the things you've mentioned, but love? Between whom? Soldiers? No, comradeship, friendship at most, but not love.

You sound like you glorify war in a way. When I think of war, I wonder about the grave consequence of failure in communication.

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Violence is a method of communication! How does that saying go: Actions speak louder than words.

Well, nothing speaks louder than a bullet to the head!

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Violence is a method of communication! How does that saying go: Actions speak louder than words.

Well, nothing speaks louder than a bullet to the head!

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It's a one-way communication, therefore a failure. Not to mention unproductive. It arises from the inability to reach a compromise.

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How is it a failure though, in the sense of the OP.

Is Chris Gray's death a failure?

Are the men around him failures?

Is this moment in time, this view of 'life' a failure?

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

But if you ask, the man's death is a failure in a sense. The failure of others in peacefully solving whatever conflict brought the soldier's life to an end. His, or his government's, failure in choosing to go or being made to go to war. And finally, the part of human nature that makes us aggressive beings and the inability to overcome it is a failure.

As to

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Is this moment in time, this view of 'life' a failure?

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Post edited at 3:38 pm on Nov. 10, 2008 by save the world

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At first I meant war to be the result of a failure in communication, then violence (for similar reasons, explained in my previous post).

But if you ask, the man's death is a failure in a sense. The failure of others in peacefully solving whatever conflict brought the soldier's life to an end. His, or his government's, failure in choosing to go or being made to go to war. And finally, the part of human nature that makes us aggressive beings and the inability to overcome it is a failure.

As to

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Is this moment in time, this view of 'life' a failure?

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, I don't know what you mean.

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What Im saying is that the lives we lead are so sheltered, our mind is so distorted in what life is like, should be.

And then this, this happens. This conflict, these thoughts running through human minds the moment Chris Gray hit the ground, those feelings, those efforts, theyve been shared by all our human ancestors in one form or another.

And seeing it, feeling it like they do, knocks everything into perspective.

But youre only looking at the war and seeing things in a modern sense, or the way society makes you see it.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?