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SovSull
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Quote: from greatescape11 at 4:42 pm on Nov. 9, 2008
 Quote: from LaMotta at 12:37 pm on Nov. 7, 2008
Their treatment of women is a bit shite.
I wish you would educate yourself on the actual history and beliefs of Islam before making claims like that.
Sura 4:34
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
I'd say it's a pretty shitty way to treat anybody.
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greatescape
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Quote: from SovSull at 3:50 pm on Nov. 9, 2008
Sura 4:34
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
I'd say it's a pretty shitty way to treat anybody.
It's pretty east to nitpick select passages out of any text and pull it out of context, and then make the claim that it summarizes the beliefs of the whole religion. Let's take a second look. First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity). At the time, the above-mentioned treatment of women was extremely common, from a cultural standpoint. To say that that single passage targets women any more than any other culture did at the time is absurd. We can do the same thing in the Bible.
Ephesians
Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24 Wives must revere their husband. 5:33
1 Timothy
Women are to dress modestly, "with shamefacedness" -- "not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." 2:9 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 2:11-12 Men are superior to women since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing." 2:14-15 Obviously these are fairly out of context at this point. However at one time in history, it was considered the norm. The second thing we have to examine is the translation of that particular passage. Bear in mind the Koran isnt meant to be read in English. Dr. Ahmad Shafaat does a good job really going into depth with this here. Basically he is pointing out that if you read the better translation of the Koran, you see that while there does appear to be inequality, there is also a great deal of respect between the man and the woman. Additionally, the translation you provided makes a great deal of assumptions as far as translation goes.
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Aimforthehead
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Quote: from greatescape11 at 2:09 pm on Nov. 9, 2008
First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity).
That's not saying much 
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From up here, you can't see any borders.
All you can see is the Earth.
In a sane society, decisions are not made but arrived at.
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bigslick
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i have issues with any religion that is used to make women wear fucking beekeepers suits. then again all religion is bullshit. read nietzsche
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They say that if you are drunk, it is more likely to contract HIV. Aren't they really saying if you're drunk youre more likely to get laid?
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5:17 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 | Joined: July 2005 | Days Active: 84
Join to learn more about bigslick California, United States | Straight Male | Posts: 479 | Points: 1,356
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