White guilt -- LiveWire Teen Forums

And?

"European" includes all of those - something I have nothing, and want nothing, to do with.

Race does not matter. Culture does.

Doesn't matter for what?

It has DIFFERENT meanings. White does not matter.

European has different meanings,

Also, doesn't matter for WHAT?

It is INDO-EUROPEAN that can trace their origin back to the black sea.
We're not sure if they were ALL whites or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people
We ARE sure that those ppl CAME from the black sea and established themselves in India and Europe. The european culture you love so much and refere to come from THAT. It may or may not be WHITE.

I don't love European culture, but WHITE culture.

And what makes you think White culture isn't White?

Which makes European pride MAKE sense and white pride a bunch of bullshit.

No, European has MANY definitions too.

White has ONLY a racial basis.

I thought you said it only had a skin basis...

European culture is well defined.

Obviously not as many people have different ideas.

Not a common one no.

Europe sure as hell doesn't!

Your white ancestors ahve a COMMON culture only BECAUSE of the European culture.

Since they were White, it can be considered White culture too. There are European cultures that have NO effect on my ancestors and are from entirely different populations.

There are many European cultures I want NOTHING to do with - and are NOT White.

Yep. The culture they have and are proud of is EUROPEAN no matter when they moved in and how. Their culture is NOT "white"

Europe doesn't move. You can say it's not White because YOU don't know what White is.

White Eruopean MADE the european culture in large part yeah. But that culture is European first. Its race is irrelevant.

Whites made the culture, take out the "European" adjective for now.

Whites made White culture - you can define it as "White" culture as it was made by Whites, just like you define "European" culture as it was made in Europe.

Race is IRRELEVANT TO YOU! I love my Folk, and I want to celebrate the culture of all of them - location is irrelevant even if they were all in Europe (though other people were in Europe too).

What basis?
I gave you alist of items from what you call white culture that has nonwhite influence and YOU admitted it.

Whites adopted it as theirs - too late now.

Some things are different though - technology/science I don't think should stay within a culture as it benefits everyone.

Some things, like traditions, entertainment, etc SHOULD stay for individuality and changing that wouldn't help them too much.

So? Wat matters is his culture. If he adopts the Eruopean culture FULLY nd loves it and admires it there is NO reason he can't be proud of it.

Of course - anyone in Europe can be proud of European culture. Doesn't mean he can share what other Europeans have, the fact that their ancestors contributed to that culture.

The same applies: any White can be proud of White culture.

To that person the culture he adopted is more important than the race he belong to.

To THAT person.

"Tainting" is an opinion.

Sure it is.

Which can really be defined through European culture mostly.
Even white culture in America is mostly European culture and European TASTE.

But MUCH OF EUROPEAN CULTURE is VERY different from White culture and has LITTLE TO NO White routes - a POINTLESS thing for a White to be proud of.

OPINION OPINION

Well, it's destroying the culture itself - destruction is good?

No it doen't. As Bud2400 EXPLAINED to you many times individuality comes from a person deciding they are NOT slave to their race or heritage.

Isn't cultural diversity about people and their cultures being different and celebrating that? Why can't the same have to do with race?

An asian who decideds to be European in culture because he lives there and is raised there (and not because it is a fad) is MUCH MORE an INDIVIDUAL than an asian who obeys his tradition just because he has a "yellow skin".

No, he isn't.

One turns from his ancestors, his family, his people and adapt something foreign people have created that he CAN'T relate his history to.

He is destroying his individuality as he's genetically different from other Europeans (I'm assuming you mean Whites in this context) and is, in some ways, slapping his own people in the face.

If I was a parent and my kids ran away and adopted themselves into another family, what do you think I'd do? What would YOU do if your children said they no longer love you, even though you gave birth to them, loved them, and raised them? What if YOUR CHILDREN ran from you because they find someone else more interesting and better to love?

He could have Australian pride yes. His family DID contribute to building Australia and make it a better place (unless they were bums). Even if they are recent immigrants his family brought money and/or skills needed in australia.

In the sense that they brought nothing - then what?

He can be proud of being part of the country he is in and of making his mark. Even MORE than of some irish ancestors from the 19th century unless that ancestor did something cool and great or useful.

Screw your family, just be proud of what you have now, not all of the influence your family has given to you!

The fact is no one agrees.

I disagree with "European" in your sense - What about that? I know plenty of people that have the same definition of White as me, and many people that have a different definition of European than you.

You are the one who keeps using skin color to make your point about fitness.

NEVER have I used genetics as fitness. It's common sense to know that Negroes survive better in their climate because of their skin, and Whites survive in their climate better because of their skin. Skin has VERY LITTLE to do with race.

Maybe but when it comes to pride its a stupid point.

Explain why people should be proud to be European - don't use White pride or any other pride in comparison or in your explanation.

Move?

If you can't do that yet (Like me for example)

The perpetuation of that which already exists: truly the greatest of [s]mankind's[/s] white people's accomplishments.

You didn't give an answer.

Ah, influence rendered tangential by the passing of time and the filtering of intervening generations! It warms my heart to think of it!

My ancestors influence me more than my country ever has collectively.

Post edited at 3:58 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 by kidd rune

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"One of the Germans... would frequently snatch a child from the
woman's arms and... tear the child in half... Such incidents...
occurred all the time." - A Year in Treblinka, Yankel Wiernik,
Treblinka's "most authoritative eyewitness"

Thats classic throwing the baby with the bathwater. Pretty sad.

Explain.

For individual and defining a person.

But many races have created their own cultures.

Pretty much al related with being born or having roots in Europe.

And WHite is the same - being born or having White roots.

The thing is - WHAT is European and WHAT is White? Both have different opinions.

For "pride" and defning your identity.

I'm White - is that a crime? I can define myself as White. My culture has almost purely White roots (as you've brought up, and I knew, it has been touched and influenced by nonWhites, but MOST isn't).
My ancestors, all that I know about of course, have been White.

Whites have influenced me through my family and culture - I sure as hell believe that should be defined in me.

Because it is"white"? So if any part of it has been influenced or touched by nnwhites you don't like it anymore? Pretty sad.

No. If someone is proud of European culture is that because it's confined in the boundaries of Europe? No.

I'm proud of White culture because it's directly what my people created - many people I'm not related to were also in Europe, which I have no reason to be proud of.

It is not JUST white.

Well, BET isn't 100% Black but it's still called BET, instead of Black and other ethnicities included Entertainment.
Then it would be BAOEIET. Doesn't roll off the tongue.

Much fewer than white. And more precise.

Still not proof. Just because someone over here is stuck in a skin color fallacy doesn't mean I shouldn't be proud of MY PEOPLE instead of the country they were on, with many other people included in it.

Genetically its even LESS clear.

There are no specific boundaries that divide Caucasians and Negroes and Mongols and all of the other races, but that still doesn't mean Whites don't exist.

Most of Europe has a shared culture yeah. Languages in Europe came from many of the same influence (latin and greek). Many of the music was shared and grouped together. Many of the literature was trasnlated back and forth and printed all over Europe and enjoyed by most of Europeans.
Are you denying that?

You used "Much" and "many" a lot. That doesn't mean all. Now we're going to separate Europe into parts to be proud of and parts not to be proud of?

Give some examples.

Lappish, Hunnic, Mongol are some. Bulgars, Avars, Magyars and Khazars had cultures exclusive from Europe too - yet they invaded and left impacts on certain areas.

Examples please.

Read above.

Thast not what I said. Re-read the post

1 - just because they are proud of something in Europe doesn't mean they should be proud of all of Europe.
2 - What if they're proud of the culture of their ancestors (who were White), wouldn't their culture, in exclusively White parts of Europe with little (if any) nonWhite influence be considered White? If not, why - European culture has influences from other continents, why is it still "European" then?

I don't agree with you on what it is. But really I DON'T CARE!

Well then, I'm proud of my ancestors - you going to call that retarded or stupid?

But since we are not sure what "white" is then its moot/

Wrong there. Just because some people don't know what it means doesn't make it moot.

Ok let me ask you: have you ever heard Gershwin music?is it "white" to you or not? If yes why and if not why not?

Haven't heard it.

Have you ever read Kipling? Is it "white" literature to you? If yes why if no why not?

No.

Have you read Cervantes? Is it white to you? if yes why if no why not?

I've read some of Don Quixote. There is a lot of White influence from Spain in the book in much of his story. I don't remember every single detail though.

Is this "white" architecture or not? If yes why if no why not?

I guess so due to it being popular in Spain and due to the fact it's Spanish architecture.

Is this "white" art? If yes why if no why not?

Well, each artist has different styles. The question is - who did he use as influence and who did he influence?

In order to love them you are willing to make them pass a genetics test to make sure they are really 100% white...

Nope. I dislike genetic tests at the moment - they aren't very precise, we haven't finished mapping every gene to every people and matched every trait with it either. All in good time.
But my people are characterized by how they act (culture) and also their race (how they look, their ancestry, ect)

And they don't have to be 100% as I've said before (not that it's too possible to know for sure).

So you are willing to accept it even though it has nonwhite influence...

It matters how much influence and what it is exactly.

That is why European pride DOES make sense.

That's exactly why it doesn't! His ancestors did one thing, and other people did this - why should he have pride in something his ancestors didn't do?

Nope.

Why can't he be proud of his own people? His ancestors and not people that resided NEAR his ancestors?

Why not? Why should they not share into what their ancestors have done TOGETHER with nonwhites?

Much of it their ancestors had NOTHING TO DO WITH. And, in many cases, their ancestors disagreed with it. You know, people weren't so tolerant of others back then.

It is YOUR OPINION that it is "destroying". I think it is ENRICHING.

Well, simply put - it's taking something that wasn't bad already, changing it how you want it, and putting it back.

in fact the american culture is very RICH and LOVED all over the world because it took up influence from all over the world. So everyone can find something in it and it speaks to EVERYONE

If people loved American culture so much, why don't the immigrants celebrate it? PBS is a good example. My multicultural area is a good example. Many other examples exist where you drive to one town, then drive for 30 minutes into another town and experience a radical culture change.

If everyone loved American culture, that wouldn't happen.

------The other half you didn't even reply to Jakelong. Here it is again: