We are not descended from Apes. Like your quote says we are in a super family that includes apes, which goes as far back as gibbons. We are on a different line to apes.

Hominoidea is very, very large tree. And is rarely used in discussions of origins of humans due to that.

We (homo-sapiens) are completly seperate to apes.

Actually heres an evolution diagram to show you:

See, apes are on a completely different branch of the tree. We cannot be descended from them.

Post edited at 6:14 am on Oct. 20, 2008 by ElephantStone

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

The end.

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Youre both wrong. Not in one book have I ever read homidea referred to as hominidea. The internet tells a different story after typing in Ape, but sites such as Wikipedia spring up, which doesnt hold any ground, imo.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

Also, your chart doesn't show apes "on a completely seperate branch" at all, in fact, it shows that we are apes.

On the chart you posted at the top of the page, circle what you think are apes, so I at least know what you're talking about, because right now, I don't even know what you're looking at.

Post edited at 1:22 pm on Oct. 20, 2008 by telomere13

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The only apes on that diagram are hylobates lar and pongo pygaemus. Coming from a species further back in the table.

I mean, perhaps in greater context we are apes if you are swearing homonidea is 'great ape' (which I ma still looking for in my texts), but we are not descended from apes.

David Lewis-Williams, University of Witwatersrand,:

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Humans did not come from apes. No qualified person in the scientific community has ever made that claim, including Darwin. All apes and humans are desceneded from a single proto-ape species that lived millions of years ago nd no longer exists. Thus humans can be said to be closely related to the other apes, but we are ncertainly not descended from them.

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Right, this is my last comment on this argument.

The only apes on that diagram are hylobates lar and pongo pygaemus. Coming from a species further back in the table.

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So gorillas and chimpanzees aren't apes, but orangutans are?  That really doesn't make any sense, at all, because all three of those (in addition, of course, to humans) are great apes.

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I mean, perhaps in greater context we are apes if you are swearing homonidea is 'great ape' (which I ma still looking for in my texts)(...)

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This is correct.

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(...)but we are not descended from apes.

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And I never said that we were.

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Post edited at 3:21 pm on Oct. 20, 2008 by medjai

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O` tru apothecary!
Thy drugs are quick.
Thus with a kiss I die.

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The best explanation I've found states in a nutshell that the term ape is sometimes employed to include all species in the superfamily Hominoidea (chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons and humans) and sometimes to only include the nonhuman species, although traditionally, usage of the word has often not included humans. Therefore, I am completely correct when I state that humans are apes. However, those who argue against me and say that humans are not apes are just as correct.

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Kevin Greene, 2007, Archaeology: An Introduction

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?