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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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 4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?  

 Humans are apes.

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Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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 4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?  

 Humans are apes.

---

Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

Really?

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

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[As a certified LiveWire Intellectual you are indubitably capable of composing a more verbose post!]

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click and please click
^use head phones

It is not as many people see it - a search for perfection, a ladder, going from one step to the next.

Evolution is not like a ladder, it is like a bush, with lots of dead ends.

WRONG:

Right:

As far as Im aware the theory of evolution is still strong, just the way it works is being disputed.

Post edited at 3:21 pm on Oct. 19, 2008 by ElephantStone

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:12 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

 

  4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?

  Humans are apes.

---

 

 Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

Really?

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

---

---

Well that cant be right. Thats not what Ive read and been taught.

-------

Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

As a scientific term, apes are not just one animal, but a super-family containing plenty of species, which do include humans. However in most non-scientific terms apes are almost always used in the case where humans are excluded from this.

Bearsy, stop arguing semantics please, it makes no difference to the original content.

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and victorious in war shall be made glorious in peace.

EDIT: Well you removed the picture now so forget it.

Post edited at 3:26 pm on Oct. 19, 2008 by Bearsy

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click and please click
^use head phones

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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:15 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:12 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

  4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?    

  Humans are apes.

---

  Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

 

 Really?  

 

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...  
 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

---

---

Well that cant be right. Thats not what Ive read and been taught.

---

You've read and been taught wrong then. This is not really up for discussion, it's a certified, scientific label.

-------
When they leave me, they're all smiles.
When they leave you, they're in tears.

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ElephantStone why the fux were there a bunch of biblical names by your skulls

EDIT: Well you removed the picture now so forget it.

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I just saw it was the right diagram and copied it and then noticed that it was being used as a joke against creationism.

So i got the right one and now its fucked up :(

-------

Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:19 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:15 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:12 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

   

   4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?

   Humans are apes.

---

   

  Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

  Really?

 

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

---

---

 

 Well that cant be right. Thats not what Ive read and been taught.

---

You've read and been taught wrong then. This is not really up for discussion, it's a certified, scientific label.

---

I think this says enough:

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Humans cannot be descended from the apes because, in some ways, they are apes themselves. Really we should ask whether humans descended from 'an' ape. Naturally people are not descended from a present-day ape, any more than we are descended from our cousins. But palaeontology and all the disciplines of the biological sciences have taught us that humans and apes have common ancestors several million years ago.

---

Thomas, H. (2006) The first humans: the search for our origins

Im going to stick with this view and the many thousand other professors and doctors that do so.

-------

Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:26 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:19 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:15 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:12 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

    4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?      

    Humans are apes.

---

   Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

   

  Really?    

 

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...    
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

---

---

  Well that cant be right. Thats not what Ive read and been taught.

---

 

 You've read and been taught wrong then. This is not really up for discussion, it's a certified, scientific label.

---

I think this says enough:

---

Humans cannot be descended from the apes because, in some ways, they are apes themselves. Really we should ask whether humans descended from 'an' ape. Naturally people are not descended from a present-day ape, any more than we are descended from our cousins. But palaeontology and all the disciplines of the biological sciences have taught us that humans and apes have common ancestors several million years ago.

---

Thomas, H. (2006) The first humans: the search for our origins

Im going to stick with this view and the many thousand other professors and doctors that do so.

---

I think this says enough.

-------
When they leave me, they're all smiles.
When they leave you, they're in tears.

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i think we've gone off topic now. We've established 3 times that evolution has nothing to do with the formation of the universe.

This is an interesting topic, lets not see it de-railed.

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You do, of course, understand that given that the question about the universe's origin is in the original post that if every subsequent post explained why that question was stupid and offered nothing else to the topic, the topic would at no point be "de-railed" because every single response would have been on-topic, right?

Of course you do.

Intellectual forum, and all that.

-------
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 6:10 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

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i think we've gone off topic now. We've established 3 times that evolution has nothing to do with the formation of the universe.  

 This is an interesting topic, lets not see it de-railed.

---

You do, of course, understand that given that the question about the universe's origin is in the original post that if every subsequent post explained why that question was stupid and offered nothing else to the topic, the topic would at no point be "de-railed" because every single response would have been on-topic, right?

Of course you do.

Intellectual forum, and all that.

---

Have you ever read or heard about Michael Behe's Darwin's Black Box?  

---

Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 7:16 am on Oct. 20, 2008

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 6:10 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

i think we've gone off topic now. We've established 3 times that evolution has nothing to do with the formation of the universe.  

  This is an interesting topic, lets not see it de-railed.

---

 

 You do, of course, understand that given that the question about the universe's origin is in the original post that if every subsequent post explained why that question was stupid and offered nothing else to the topic, the topic would at no point be "de-railed" because every single response would have been on-topic, right?  

 Of course you do.  

 Intellectual forum, and all that.

---

Have you ever read or heard about Michael Behe's Darwin's Black Box?  

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I haven't read it, but I know of it. I'm also aware of "irreducible complexity", or the argument of "well gosh, I dunno how this coulda happened. Let's try not to figure it out, let's just chalk it up to Jesus and study something else."

-------
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 10:26 am on Oct. 20, 2008

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Quote: from allsmiles at 11:26 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:19 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:15 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from ElephantStone at 11:12 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

Quote: from allsmiles at 11:02 pm on Oct. 19, 2008

---

   4) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?        

   Humans are apes.

---

  Apes have nothing to do with humans. They shared a common ancestor with us and split in their own direction.

---

     

  Really?      

 

---

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:*the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known ...      
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

---

---

 Well that cant be right. Thats not what Ive read and been taught.

---

   

You've read and been taught wrong then. This is not really up for discussion, it's a certified, scientific label.

---

I think this says enough:

---

Humans cannot be descended from the apes because, in some ways, they are apes themselves. Really we should ask whether humans descended from 'an' ape. Naturally people are not descended from a present-day ape, any more than we are descended from our cousins. But palaeontology and all the disciplines of the biological sciences have taught us that humans and apes have common ancestors several million years ago.

---

Thomas, H. (2006) The first humans: the search for our origins

Im going to stick with this view and the many thousand other professors and doctors that do so.

---

 

I think this says enough.

---

So Im right then? Modern humans are not descended from apes.

Post edited at 6:02 am on Oct. 20, 2008 by ElephantStone

-------

Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?