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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.  
 Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.  

 I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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I think youve missed the point.

What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 10:14 am on Oct. 18, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.
  Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.

  I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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 I think youve missed the point.  

 What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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Very true. I personally have indeed chosen to partake in the use of various "addictive" substances, and have under no circumstance felt that I needed the aforementioned substances or that I was in any way addicted to them. It's a matter of will, plain and simple.

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Sustained use or just once?  

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Um yes. Do I have to blindly regurgitate your opinion to before you'll believe that?

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No but youre not arguing your point.

A number of points have been made above and youve just come in with your statement and left.

You havent explained at all how that man can be wrong, or made any valid points against his.

And for the record that is not my opinion. I never stated it anywhere that it was.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 12:26 am on Oct. 20, 2008

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Um yes. Do I have to blindly regurgitate your opinion to before you'll believe that?

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No but youre not arguing your point.

A number of points have been made above and youve just come in with your statement and left.

You havent explained at all how that man can be wrong, or made any valid points against his.

And for the record that is not my opinion. I never stated it anywhere that it was.

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 10:30 am on Oct. 20, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 12:26 am on Oct. 20, 2008

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Um yes. Do I have to blindly regurgitate your opinion to before you'll believe that?

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 No but youre not arguing your point.  

 A number of points have been made above and youve just come in with your statement and left.  

 You havent explained at all how that man can be wrong, or made any valid points against his.  

 And for the record that is not my opinion. I never stated it anywhere that it was.

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I don't think what I am saying contradicts what he said so what's to argue?

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Sorry, I read your point on motivation, and viewed it as motivation to quit a hard addiction, rather than in the context of how this man is viewing.

It took me a moment to see it that way.

Sorry.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 10:14 am on Oct. 18, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.
  Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.

  I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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 I think youve missed the point.  

 What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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Very true. I personally have indeed chosen to partake in the use of various "addictive" substances, and have under no circumstance felt that I needed the aforementioned substances or that I was in any way addicted to them. It's a matter of will, plain and simple.

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I've smoked cigarettes before and never became addicted but I'm not going to go telling people that cigarettes aren't addictive

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click and please click
^use head phones

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Um is it even safe to inject salt? If that study is real I would be interested to know the number of people involved and the results and what not.

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And it is a long known fact that the placebo effect can have profound effects on the withdrawal syndrome of heroin, (and probably in reverse too - the placebo effect can intensify withdrawals when the patient expects them).

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Κύριε ἐλέησον

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Quote: from wallopwoop at 4:32 pm on Oct. 20, 2008

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 10:14 am on Oct. 18, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.    
  Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.    

  I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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  I think youve missed the point.

  What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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 Very true. I personally have indeed chosen to partake in the use of various "addictive" substances, and have under no circumstance felt that I needed the aforementioned substances or that I was in any way addicted to them. It's a matter of will, plain and simple.

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Sustained use or just once?

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Sustained use of amphetamines, cocaine, and various opiates and opioids. Nicotine and alcohol too of course... and my original post stands true for all of the aforementioned substances.

Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 5:18 pm on Oct. 20, 2008

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I hate people like you

I've smoked cigarettes before and never became addicted but I'm not going to go telling people that cigarettes aren't addictive

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I'd be very suprised if you've had more extended experience with addictive substances than myself, and if that's correct then you have no place to talk. Hell, I'd be suprised if you had much experience with anything other than cigarettes judging by your response. If you can provide one legitimate reason why someone would be physically incapable of quitting any substance cold turkey then I'll shut the fuck up.

so you shut the fuck up

Post edited at 8:18 pm on Oct. 20, 2008 by Bearsy

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click and please click
^use head phones

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I've had extended experience with caffeine, alcohol, cannabis and amphetamine

so you shut the fuck up

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I'd be very suprised if you've had more extended experience with addictive substances than myself, and if that's correct then you have no place to talk.

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You're making the same mistake that BB originally slammed you for. The fact that in your personal opinion you were not addicted in the instances when you did some substances in no way constitutes grounds to make a universal statement about the nature of addiction--to do so is to commit a logical fallacy.

In short, when someone goes into seizures and dies because of alcohol addiction you can't brush it off as a state of mind because it was easy for you to come off speed.

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"Hey, that's not very nice, Mayor--
just because a person's gay doesn't mean he's a fag!"
-Stan

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/200806/no-thanks-i-need-smoke

Oh and wallopwoop, isnt cannabis widely regarded as the doorway into other drugs? Meaning it is probably addicive, just as caffeine is (YES, caffeine is addictive too)

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dont wonder why im not smiling, wonder why you are.

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Surely this article only takes into account the physical addiction to heroin?
What about psychological addictions, where, for example, a cup of coffee can trigger the urge to smoke?
I'll link in a psychology page on it:

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/200806/no-thanks-i-need-smoke

 
Oh and wallopwoop, isnt cannabis widely regarded as the doorway into other drugs? Meaning it is probably addicive, just as caffeine is (YES, caffeine is addictive too)

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I think the article was about choosing to be addicted, and the way the mind deals with it.

You physically take heroin, so you physically show it, and have to be satisfied physically. That is why he talks so much about the physical aspect of it. But he talks about salt and fooling people out of withdrawal, and how very often addicts exaggerate their withdrawal because they feel it should be worse, ion an effort to get a hit.

It was all psychological to me.

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Punctured bicycle on a hillside, desolate,
Could nature make a man of me yet?

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I'd be very suprised if you've had more extended experience with addictive substances than myself, and if that's correct then you have no place to talk.

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You're making the same mistake that BB originally slammed you for. The fact that in your personal opinion you were not addicted in the instances when you did some substances in no way constitutes grounds to make a universal statement about the nature of addiction--to do so is to commit a logical fallacy.

In short, when someone goes into seizures and dies because of alcohol addiction you can't brush it off as a state of mind because it was easy for you to come off speed.

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