please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all
Quote: from benjamine1 at 5:01 am on June 14, 2008 Then we may be talking about something entirely different, we may be talking about fear. Fear darkens the mind, distorts. How can we look at fear, without fear itself distorting our observation, without it damaging the lens? We also have to make clear now what we mean by the psyche? And whether or not there actually is a 'normal state', whether or not there actually is psychological permanency at all? there are many ways. therapy, meditation, detached introspection, drugs. of course there is no clear way for us to openly examine the lens, we do our best with what we have. i don't mean to define the terms themselves here but clarify what aspect of them we are talking about. i think by psyche we mean one's 'state of mind', the way in which one looks at and judges the world. i believe there is a normal state, for without one we would not be able to compare experiences. and from a neurological point of view, we have similar brains and i would find it ludicrous to suggest that there isn't psychological semi-permanence.
Then we may be talking about something entirely different, we may be talking about fear. Fear darkens the mind, distorts. How can we look at fear, without fear itself distorting our observation, without it damaging the lens? We also have to make clear now what we mean by the psyche? And whether or not there actually is a 'normal state', whether or not there actually is psychological permanency at all?
there are many ways. therapy, meditation, detached introspection, drugs. of course there is no clear way for us to openly examine the lens, we do our best with what we have. i don't mean to define the terms themselves here but clarify what aspect of them we are talking about. i think by psyche we mean one's 'state of mind', the way in which one looks at and judges the world. i believe there is a normal state, for without one we would not be able to compare experiences. and from a neurological point of view, we have similar brains and i would find it ludicrous to suggest that there isn't psychological semi-permanence.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how any of the things you have mentioned can help one observe fear. Fear is you, the feeling, the conditioning. I don't know why you think these things can help. And I'm assuming what you mean by meditation is that silly cross-legged, or whatever, watching the breath thing.
I'm afraid I don't quite know what you mean by not being able to examine the lens, etc, either.
You say the 'way' in which one looks at and judges the world. What do you mean? Is it not possible to look at the world how it is, without judgement, without the word interfering, in freedom of these things?
What does a normal state have to do with comparing experiences? I don't quite understand you there either? I don't know about neurology or any of that stuff, I know the fact of my own brain. I suffer. You suffer. The man in Iraq suffers. I think it's quite clear that we are, at least, similar psychologically, if not exactly the same.
You may find it ludicrous, but I am suggesting it sir, as a fact and not a theory of course. I'm suggesting there is no psychological permenence, in any human being. I wonder, are you dealing with facts, looking at facts, or theories? Are we starting with conclusions, what neurology says, what the therapist says, or are we going to find out for ourselves what's going on here? Personally i see authority as a crutch, a barrier in our investigation. Including the authority of our selves, when we think we already know something. Is the description the described?
In all reality though, I think that we all have our own predetermined plans. I would say that if something negative occurs, that is something that was meant to happen, and has a reason for happening.
I'm pretty much sure that this was not the desired answer. Oh well.
It really isn't like that sir. Perhaps you're in this intellectually. I'd rather deal with facts, not theories or any of that nonsense. Sir, if you see something I'm talking about, it won't be a yes or no answer. It won't be a dead thing, on the contrary, very much alive, moving. Obviously there is time by the watch, very helpful indeed. But, we have a problem. We say, i will get rid of my problem. i will solve it. That implies time. The 'will' implies time. But I question that. Is there really time when it comes to the psyche? If you realise there isn't, actually look into it and see the fact, you will be free of your problems, becuase you will disolve them the instant they arise. The fact will operate on what is false. It's not so important to understand what I'm saying, but it is important to see this for yourself.
Sir, if you see something I'm talking about, it won't be a yes or no answer. It won't be a dead thing, on the contrary, very much alive, moving.
Obviously there is time by the watch, very helpful indeed. But, we have a problem. We say, i will get rid of my problem. i will solve it. That implies time. The 'will' implies time. But I question that. Is there really time when it comes to the psyche? If you realise there isn't, actually look into it and see the fact, you will be free of your problems, becuase you will disolve them the instant they arise. The fact will operate on what is false.
It's not so important to understand what I'm saying, but it is important to see this for yourself.
i see.
i think of the psyche the way we're talking about it now to be sort of a lens. and while that lens doesn't distort anything normally, it is possible to smudge or damage that lens, so things look different through it. so i don't see the problem as the psyche itself, but something acting upon the psyche, changing it from its normal state.
Quote: from sad and young at 10:43 pm on June 13, 2008 are we products of our environment, each thought feeling and behavior created by complex mechanisms created through life experience like we were a biochemical machine whose instructions are being constantly updated, or at any moment can we overcome our ego and so whenever we do have problems is it because we have unconsciously chosen not to for whatever reason? please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all Sir, surely if another is to answer this question for you, then you've learned nothing. You're stuck with useless knowledge. You are the we, psychologically. So look into the matter for yourself? What are you? Are you the memorys, experiences, collected from the past? The violence, the greed, the anger? Is there a you seperate from these things, or is 'I' another thought? Therefore there is only the violence, the experience, the product of your environment? Now you ask, can this end? Not tommorow or the next day, but can this end now? We are stuck with the concept of psychological time. i will become this, i will be free of that. But is there psychological time? if you see there isn't, which really is a great thing to see, you will deal with each so called problem as it arises, you on't leave it or escape from it. Then you'll be free of your problems.
are we products of our environment, each thought feeling and behavior created by complex mechanisms created through life experience like we were a biochemical machine whose instructions are being constantly updated, or at any moment can we overcome our ego and so whenever we do have problems is it because we have unconsciously chosen not to for whatever reason? please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all
Sir, surely if another is to answer this question for you, then you've learned nothing. You're stuck with useless knowledge.
You are the we, psychologically. So look into the matter for yourself? What are you? Are you the memorys, experiences, collected from the past? The violence, the greed, the anger? Is there a you seperate from these things, or is 'I' another thought? Therefore there is only the violence, the experience, the product of your environment?
Now you ask, can this end? Not tommorow or the next day, but can this end now? We are stuck with the concept of psychological time. i will become this, i will be free of that. But is there psychological time? if you see there isn't, which really is a great thing to see, you will deal with each so called problem as it arises, you on't leave it or escape from it. Then you'll be free of your problems.
i was expecting more than a yes/no response, and i am a solitary part of a whole. i am not sure if i am this or that, and so far introspection hasn't given me any answers. i don't really understand what you mean by psychological time.
Ignorant people perceive the world as they are taught. Others see the world exactly as they want to. Either way, the concepts of victim and problem are indeed just concepts. Are the stars victims or do they create their own problems? Neither. And how are we different from the stars? The special thing about humans is we can believe that we are victims or that we create our own problems. We sure create things, but they aren't really problems. Unless you want to believe they are. That leaves your question about our role in the Universe. Think about this: Is there a such thing as separate events? Aren't all events connected? Then can we be individuals? Can we be separate from anything? No. Take it a step further. Breathe. Pay attention to your breath. You were breathing before I made you conscious of it. You were also growing your hair, beating your heart and dividing your cells. You're not conscious of those things, but they are you. What if everything is also you and you're just not aware of it? What if I am you? Now there's something to think about.
That leaves your question about our role in the Universe. Think about this: Is there a such thing as separate events? Aren't all events connected? Then can we be individuals? Can we be separate from anything? No. Take it a step further.
Breathe. Pay attention to your breath. You were breathing before I made you conscious of it. You were also growing your hair, beating your heart and dividing your cells. You're not conscious of those things, but they are you. What if everything is also you and you're just not aware of it? What if I am you?
Now there's something to think about.
Please sir, I ask this question: what actually is?
Please, if you approach this thinking you already know then it's finished, and you're stuck with your intellectual concept.
What is?
i believe everything happens for a reason, and that our lifes have a certain destination that we take. all our choices and decisions have already been decided. So i'd say we're victims of the world, we can't control it.
why do you believe that
yes i'm aware of this kind of perception of existence, but i don't think it is possible to experience it for extended periods of time.
Quote: from sad and young at 1:53 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for. yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me. dyslexia?
Quote: from negative0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for. yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me.
Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for.
Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both.
both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it.
our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it.
if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both.
then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for.
yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me.
no nothing like that, i just think there's a tendency to interpret this question a certain way and i'm trying hard to reframe it but it's difficult
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