Adding Reply Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic The Matrix: Is reality an illusion? Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post Anonymous Posted at 10:31 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 Plato wrote Allegory of the Cave which in a way could directly be related to the movie The Matrix. If anybody has read Plato's work and seen the movie, do you think this is reality or an illusion? Could we be living in a "matrix", like Neo was? If this was all an illusion, and you were in Neo's position, which pill would you take? Would you rather stay in this matrix or live in the real world? There has also been a question posed that asks how do we tell dreams apart from reality. There is no certain way of knowing that we are awake or asleep. We think we can by our experiences of being awake and asleep, but is this really an efficient way to tell it apart?

Replies Blackadder Posted at 1:12 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from young22 at 5:13 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Why do we humans have to make things so complicated. You do know that if dreams and reality were different we wouldn't be talking about them as 2 different things. Simple as that, that's how you know. Chuang Tzu in dream became a butterfly, And the butterfly became Chuang Tzu at waking. Which was the real—the butterfly or the man ? Who can tell the end of the endless changes of things? The water that flows into the depth of the distant sea Returns anon to the shallows of a transparent stream. The man, raising melons outside the green gate of the city, Was once the Prince of the East Hill. So must rank and riches vanish. You know it, still you toil and toil,—what for? Li Po young22 Posted at 9:13 pm on Nov. 29, 2008 Why do we humans have to make things so complicated. You do know that if dreams and reality were different we wouldn't be talking about them as 2 different things. Simple as that, that's how you know. We can go on and on for hours about, how do we know the sun will rise tommarow, how do we know when we turn are backs on an object it's really still there. Those are things you just know. If you didn't you wouldn't have this question. Besides such ideas are neutral and serve no purpose unless they effect our actions. So how can we trust such ideas. Blackadder Posted at 9:06 pm on Nov. 29, 2008 Quote: from Colleen35 at 9:14 pm on Nov. 29, 2008 Given that we can't do anything to experience any sort of 'real' world beyond the reality we perceive, I don't think it much matters how real it is. It's all we've got, so we might as well deal. deal with it how though? Suicide as a solution was problematic for Nagel and Camus (neither wanted to argue that: in a world that makes no sense and deviod of purpose, we should just end it all by killing ourselves) Colleen35 Posted at 1:14 pm on Nov. 29, 2008 Given that we can't do anything to experience any sort of 'real' world beyond the reality we perceive, I don't think it much matters how real it is.  It's all we've got, so we might as well deal. simplysubtle Posted at 7:14 pm on Nov. 27, 2008 Quote: from Anonymous at 1:31 am on Nov. 20, 2008 Plato wrote Allegory of the Cave which in a way could directly be related to the movie The Matrix. If anybody has read Plato's work and seen the movie, do you think this is reality or an illusion? Could we be living in a "matrix", like Neo was? If this was all an illusion, and you were in Neo's position, which pill would you take? Would you rather stay in this matrix or live in the real world?   There has also been a question posed that asks how do we tell dreams apart from reality. There is no certain way of knowing that we are awake or asleep. We think we can by our experiences of being awake and asleep, but is this really an efficient way to tell it apart? Well, I suppose technically speaking that everything we experience is our perception of reality.  After all, we only have our five senses in which we experience the world and our minds in order to sort everything out.  In that sense, what we see, feel, smell, taste, and hear can be illusions of reality, and in the very best-case scenario, we are getting little bits of reality.   I did like your use of Plato, but perhaps my favorite philosopher on this subject is Kant.  I love him because he essentially put a massive hole in the purely rationalistic thinking of the Enlightenment.   All that to say that Kant realized that we, as humans, cannot witness true reality in its entirety as we are incapacitated by the limits of our senses. Blackadder Posted at 6:56 pm on Nov. 26, 2008 I mean we could sit here for hours and discuss whether or not it's possible that there's some other world where bullets move in slow motion (I dont fully remember the movie besides that lol)...but it really does serve no purpose. Should you think in a more broad sense, its purpose suddenly becomes apparent. What is the meaning of life, for example, if we were to imagine that life is a dream? or if it is a simulation, has that not implications for our values? greatescape Posted at 9:38 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 People aren't dying all the time?  I must have missed something Event Horizon Posted at 9:28 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 People do die all the time. I think living is what keeps most people going. theyareAs Posted at 9:20 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 I mean if we knew what happend after, people would die all the time. I think thats what drives us, sex and the unknown Event Horizon Posted at 9:09 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Oh yea, of course, I mean obviously we shouldn't consider this as valid. I mean, Discussing whether or not this is a simulation is just plain silly. I mean, if the simulation is all you've known, and the only way you've ever existed, then I would say the simulation is more real than "reality" anyway. All I'm saying is that just because it's metaphysical masturbation doesn't necessarily mean it is useless. theyareAs What? what are you talking about? Also, I find TONS of things that make life worth living every day, and I am not religious what-so-ever. And knowing the future does not negate, nor make less important, the path taken to get there. theyareAs Posted at 8:58 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Theres nothing wrong with religon, people need hope and faith in something. It all goes back to we will never know. Because if we did, wat would b the point in living? greatescape Posted at 8:55 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Lol I'm not a big fan of it either....just cuz I like arguing things that aren't critically important.  However, I think it's useful for drawing a line somewhere....before we all wander to far off into metaphysical lalaland. I mean we could sit here for hours and discuss whether or not it's possible that there's some other world where bullets move in slow motion (I dont fully remember the movie besides that lol)...but it really does serve no purpose. So what if there is?  Are we supposed to sit around and wait for that fateful day when we get sucked into that world?  At least religion seems to have some sort of purpose in regards to morality and people's sense of overall purpose in life. theyareAs Posted at 8:54 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Idk, pretty sure the Greeks had it right. The world is an illusion. But then so am i n so r u Event Horizon Posted at 8:47 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Ah, if we threw out all the ideas that didn't fit O'sR philosophy would be so much less fun. Plus, I don't really like Occam's Razor. What's simpler: God made everything or A point of incredible mass and infinite density suddenly expanded and created space due to a quantum fluctuation and the fabric of this "space" is really just vibrating strings of energy interacting with each other. Other forms of energy form quarks and other invisible particles that come together to form the things that we see. I mean, I know it's not that simple, I just think OR is too subjective for most cases. theyareAs Posted at 8:46 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Pretty much goes for all trains of thought Look at Russell's Teapot. -wiki it if u dnt know it- Most recent 15 of 47 previous replies displayed.