Adding Reply Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic A topic about support leaders and appreciation Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post iconoclast Posted at 1:35 am on Jan. 2, 2009 Part of the reason I have so much trouble being supportive is because of the way I was treated last time I was. I mean granted, I did it because I cared, not for any other reason but it seemed like every suggestion I made, people would step in to accuse me of being power hungry and a nuisance. I mean seriously, I know I was overzealous with moving topics and stuff, but it just seems like that stuff is trivial compared to support. It still seems like support has fallen by the wayside of drama, and I dislike this. Being appreciated for your support by the people you support is wonderful, but when you're treated like an annoying spammer by much of the mod team, it's irritating, if not infuriating. I don't know how much these attitudes are still around, but if they are, they need to stop, and people who are supportive need to be given the benefit of the doubt more. I mean seriously, you complain that I troll, but your past treatment of myself and other supportive members was hardly kind, to say the least. And it wasn't as if I was just marginally supportive. I was extremely supportive, as anyone around during that time would remember, though some try to deny this. You owe it to people who are supportive to give them basic respect. You also owe it to them to consider their suggestions without nitpicking. You also owe it to be reasonable with them. For example, putting me up for DOS was completely unnecessary, if I had simply been given a message to shut up, I would have. And many of you know that I would have, yet the whole thing was allowed to happen anyway. Of all people, supportive members should be welcomed, not ignored and out casted. Not only does the ehelp system need severe revamping, but the recognition of strong support leaders needs to go way up. Yeah, I didn't care before, but I'm starting to care more because I'm at least TRYING to be more supportive. I'm not nearly as serious before, but I'm just giving an account of why less people might want to be supportive. I was frustrated and left last time because of the decline in supportiveness and because of the poor treatment I was consistently given, so it would give me some peace of mind to know that others, and myself, aren't going to be harassed like this.

Replies iconoclast Posted at 5:08 am on Jan. 8, 2009 So David, are you going to work on the ehelp system soon, or is what I say just going to fall on deaf ears, like it usually does on here and in the real world? iconoclast Posted at 2:14 pm on Jan. 3, 2009 And no, I don't think I missed the point at all. The two things DO have to do with each other, and even back then, I was more than willing to be reasonable. It's just that some people felt so upset, for some bizarre reason, over someone asking for change that they changed topics with civil suggestions into outright flame wars. iconoclast Posted at 9:57 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from barnabas at 12:18 pm on Jan. 3, 2009 I think that the first thing we need to do is separate the issues here. 1) support. You are a very supportive member, always have been. As Doommaker you were fabulous, and a lot of people were the benefit of your excellent support, advice, and work as a support leader. You have started doing that again, and I appreciate that a lot. It is great to see people who care about livewire. 2) trolling/power hungry etc. Like Katy said, I don't understand why issue one and issue two have anything to do with one another. People did not accuse you of being power hungry because you were supportive, they accused you of being power hungry because you were making a ridiculous number of topics not just suggesting, but demanding change. the accusations had nothing to do with one another. They are seperate issues and have nothing to do with one another. I was 'demanding change' because that was part of being supportive, and because I was being completely ignored right and left. Change was NECESSARY because things being done were contrary to support. I mean, what would I rant about most? Mostly the fact that dave promoted some major idiots, which went contrary to support, and some policies, which also did. katyduck Posted at 9:24 am on Jan. 3, 2009 you've completely missed the point barnabas Posted at 9:18 am on Jan. 3, 2009 I think that the first thing we need to do is separate the issues here. 1) support. You are a very supportive member, always have been. As Doommaker you were fabulous, and a lot of people were the benefit of your excellent support, advice, and work as a support leader. You have started doing that again, and I appreciate that a lot. It is great to see people who care about livewire. 2) trolling/power hungry etc. Like Katy said, I don't understand why issue one and issue two have anything to do with one another. People did not accuse you of being power hungry because you were supportive, they accused you of being power hungry because you were making a ridiculous number of topics not just suggesting, but demanding change. the accusations had nothing to do with one another. They are seperate issues and have nothing to do with one another. iconoclast Posted at 8:11 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from amiee at 4:47 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 i don't see why you can't carry on making all your suggestions but being supportive too? yeah, i know, all the shit you got put you off and you think supportive members need more respect and all that stuff, but why should negative attitudes from the mods (or other members) stop you doing what you're fighting for with all these suggestions? I'm not nearly as serious before... this is good. i like you when you're supportive. who cares how everyone else treats you, what you're doing is between you and the person you're supporting. that's it. if you carry on as you are now then not only are you supporting people but you'll also have the support of other members, i would think, when proposing all these new ideas. and if not, well, whatever. maybe you and i differ here (in fact, it would appear that we do) but i think it'd help to just... not give a shit what people thought of you making these suggestions and trying to better the site. find the people on your side and continue with your suggestions but, more importantly, continue with your support. it's good, not that i need to tell you that. I guess I view support and making suggestions, or at least did as partially just helping the site in general. Yeah just helping the person was a lot of it, but I always thought there was more, like improving the overall supportive atmosphere, which relates to suggesting things, etc. That's why I don't think that 'support' should be separate from being a 'productive member' of this site, as much of a joke that is these days. :/ It just seemed really stupid that the supposed 'responsible'  members of this site were reduced to this crap just because of a bunch of trivial shit. Like, it wasn't just isolated comments, which I really wouldn't have cared, it was constant nitpicking and annoying. iconoclast Posted at 7:56 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from katyduck at 8:54 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 11:42 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Being supportive demonstrates that one is a respectable member, or at least should.   respectable members dont run about trolling the forums, or spamming things up, or throwing temper tantrums on a weekly if not daily basis, as you had been doing. having a past history of supportive behaviour does not and should not make you immune from your other conduct being judged and acted on. i used to be really supportive, hell i even modded this site for like 3 years, but if i was to go into dtrm and whip up a mass of attention-seeking spam, or to create loads of whiney topics in M2M where i swore like crazy and insulted many moderators on a personal level, i wouldn't expect any favours on the onus of what i once was, or what i could be.   i guess what im saying is that i dont think a past, or a potential future, or some supportive behaviour warrants excusal from unacceptable (and not to mention offensive) behaviour. and if you did really give a shit about this site like you claim to, you'd see that. Hey, maybe if people didn't constantly pick pointless fights and nitpick my stuff, I would have shut up. Maybe if people had listened to what I said instead of posting the same nonsense over and over and then accusing me of being unreasonable, I wouldn't have felt the need to post topic after topic. Supportive behavior doesn't make you immune to judgment, but supportive behavior should throw some doubt on stupid shit like calling someone 'power hungry', and should put things in perspective. It makes much more sense to give supportive people a little leeway because that's the type of members a 'support site' tries to keep around, RIGHT? Modding this site doesn't really mean anything in this topic, because 'support' is supposed to be what this site is about....which is the focus here. The point I'm making is that you should be reasonable (which doesn't mean you have to bow down and agree) to someone who is supportive in general, regardless of trivial stuff like "omfg too many mod topics" "omfg he made a spam topic in DTRM!" iconoclast Posted at 7:50 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from katyduck at 8:56 am on Jan. 3, 2009 additionally, if you really want to support others then you will do it on the pure basis of helping someone. all this stuff about wanting people to show you gratitude and wanting some sort of reward for how many eHelps you've ticked off, kind of makes it seem like you were never really supporting for the right intentions. go have a quick look at members like amiee, and it should be startlingly obvious where the differences lie. That's a load of nonsense and you know it. If you aim not only to support people but to be supportive to the site in general, not having basic respect is pretty fucking annoying. And I mean seriously, you could say that with someone who spams a lot of low-decent replies at high volume, but that's not even close to what I did. Also, if I was power hungry, there would be much more effective ways to gain power than by pissing everyone off. I'm not a stupid person and know how to play the game. I mean, don't like me or whatever, but you know that. Think about it, none of that shit even made sense. That's why it's so ridiculous, I mean I wasn't perfect, but moderators shouldn't have been not only flaming, but spewing nonsensical bullshit. But come on, Amiee might not be recognized enough, but she sure as hell didn't get harassed like I did. Now, I know she doesn't go about posting tons of angry threads here, BUT, even if I didn't like what she said, I wouldn't go and blame her for being power hungry and be a total jerk if she was just trying to help the site. katyduck Posted at 5:56 am on Jan. 3, 2009 additionally, if you really want to support others then you will do it on the pure basis of helping someone. all this stuff about wanting people to show you gratitude and wanting some sort of reward for how many eHelps you've ticked off, kind of makes it seem like you were never really supporting for the right intentions. go have a quick look at members like amiee, and it should be startlingly obvious where the differences lie. katyduck Posted at 5:54 am on Jan. 3, 2009 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 11:42 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Being supportive demonstrates that one is a respectable member, or at least should. respectable members dont run about trolling the forums, or spamming things up, or throwing temper tantrums on a weekly if not daily basis, as you had been doing. having a past history of supportive behaviour does not and should not make you immune from your other conduct being judged and acted on. i used to be really supportive, hell i even modded this site for like 3 years, but if i was to go into dtrm and whip up a mass of attention-seeking spam, or to create loads of whiney topics in M2M where i swore like crazy and insulted many moderators on a personal level, i wouldn't expect any favours on the onus of what i once was, or what i could be. i guess what im saying is that i dont think a past, or a potential future, or some supportive behaviour warrants excusal from unacceptable (and not to mention offensive) behaviour. and if you did really give a shit about this site like you claim to, you'd see that. The Professional Posted at 10:55 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from carbonara at 5:02 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 But I don't see how that can be done with the powers SL's are given. Obviously that can be done by a moderator, but SLs have very little powers that can be over moderated. SLs can easily over-moderate. Removing posts that need not be removed, voting to delete eHelps that do not need removal, moving topics that could belong in either forum.   Any time a power is given it can be taken to an extreme.  Not saying Hss has done it/does it, this reply is specifically about the comment you made. iconoclast Posted at 3:42 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Why? Because I've never demonstrated any 'power hungry' conduct in the first place and because it shows that I'm a much more reasonable member than a pure 'troll'. Being supportive demonstrates that one is a respectable member, or at least should. I mean you shouldn't let people get away with anything, but it seems pointless to whine and moan about trivial shit when someone is a good member. katyduck Posted at 3:10 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 I don't understand why a past history of supportive behaviour should warrant any troll-ish/powerhungry/otherwise conduct being viewed in a different light by the mod squad? carbonara Posted at 3:02 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from The Professional at 8:57 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from carbonara at 2:46 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 I hate that term 'over moderating', what a load of BS, if you see something that needs to be done then do it if you can. Who cares if you've got a ton of actions in a short space of time. I don't know why some of the existing mods see that as a bad thing. I think you're interpreting "over moderating" wrongly.  Over-moderation isn't acting on things that need to be acted on, it's going too far and acting on the tiniest things or things that have no business being moderated in the first place, searching for things to act on and applying illogical sense to justify the moderating, going TOO far with moderation, basically.  There's definitely a line, and over-moderation is definitely not a load of "BS." It's probably the number one issue with moderators, both here and in general. But I don't see how that can be done with the powers SL's are given. Obviously that can be done by a moderator, but SLs have very little powers that can be over moderated. amiee Posted at 1:47 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 i don't see why you can't carry on making all your suggestions but being supportive too? yeah, i know, all the shit you got put you off and you think supportive members need more respect and all that stuff, but why should negative attitudes from the mods (or other members) stop you doing what you're fighting for with all these suggestions? I'm not nearly as serious before... this is good. i like you when you're supportive. who cares how everyone else treats you, what you're doing is between you and the person you're supporting. that's it. if you carry on as you are now then not only are you supporting people but you'll also have the support of other members, i would think, when proposing all these new ideas. and if not, well, whatever. maybe you and i differ here (in fact, it would appear that we do) but i think it'd help to just... not give a shit what people thought of you making these suggestions and trying to better the site. find the people on your side and continue with your suggestions but, more importantly, continue with your support. it's good, not that i need to tell you that. Most recent 15 of 43 previous replies displayed.