Adding Reply Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic White guilt Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post Forgot My Name Posted at 4:43 pm on Oct. 27, 2008 I am so fucking tired of White Guilt. White people can't be proud of anything. But if you are Brown, Red Blue, or Green, you can be proud of all your heritage.

Replies kidd rune Posted at 8:23 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Thats classic throwing the baby with the bathwater. Pretty sad. Explain. For individual and defining a person. But many races have created their own cultures. Pretty much al related with being born or having roots in Europe. And WHite is the same - being born or having White roots. The thing is - WHAT is European and WHAT is White? Both have different opinions. For "pride" and defning your identity. I'm White - is that a crime? I can define myself as White. My culture has almost purely White roots (as you've brought up, and I knew, it has been touched and influenced by nonWhites, but MOST isn't). My ancestors, all that I know about of course, have been White. Whites have influenced me through my family and culture - I sure as hell believe that should be defined in me. Because it is"white"? So if any part of it has been influenced or touched by nnwhites you don't like it anymore? Pretty sad. No. If someone is proud of European culture is that because it's confined in the boundaries of Europe? No. I'm proud of White culture because it's directly what my people created - many people I'm not related to were also in Europe, which I have no reason to be proud of. It is not JUST white. Well, BET isn't 100% Black but it's still called BET, instead of Black and other ethnicities included Entertainment. Then it would be BAOEIET. Doesn't roll off the tongue. Much fewer than white. And more precise. Still not proof. Just because someone over here is stuck in a skin color fallacy doesn't mean I shouldn't be proud of MY PEOPLE instead of the country they were on, with many other people included in it. Genetically its even LESS clear. There are no specific boundaries that divide Caucasians and Negroes and Mongols and all of the other races, but that still doesn't mean Whites don't exist. Most of Europe has a shared culture yeah. Languages in Europe came from many of the same influence (latin and greek). Many of the music was shared and grouped together. Many of the literature was trasnlated back and forth and printed all over Europe and enjoyed by most of Europeans.   Are you denying that? You used "Much" and "many" a lot. That doesn't mean all. Now we're going to separate Europe into parts to be proud of and parts not to be proud of? Give some examples. Lappish, Hunnic, Mongol are some. Bulgars, Avars, Magyars and Khazars had cultures exclusive from Europe too - yet they invaded and left impacts on certain areas. Examples please. Read above. Thast not what I said. Re-read the post 1 - just because they are proud of something in Europe doesn't mean they should be proud of all of Europe. 2 - What if they're proud of the culture of their ancestors (who were White), wouldn't their culture, in exclusively White parts of Europe with little (if any) nonWhite influence be considered White? If not, why - European culture has influences from other continents, why is it still "European" then? I don't agree with you on what it is. But really I DON'T CARE! Well then, I'm proud of my ancestors - you going to call that retarded or stupid? But since we  are not sure what "white" is then its moot/ Wrong there. Just because some people don't know what it means doesn't make it moot. Ok let me ask you: have you  ever heard Gershwin music?is it "white" to you or not? If yes why and if not why not? Haven't heard it. Have you ever read Kipling? Is it "white" literature to you? If yes  why if no why not? No. Have you read Cervantes? Is it white to you? if yes why if no why not? I've read some of Don Quixote. There is a lot of White influence from Spain in the book in much of his story. I don't remember every single detail though. Is this "white" architecture or not? If yes why if no why not? I guess so due to it being popular in Spain and due to the fact it's Spanish architecture. Is this "white" art? If yes why if no why not? Well, each artist has different styles. The question is - who did he use as influence and who did he influence? In order to love them you are willing to make them pass a genetics test to make sure they are really 100% white... Nope. I dislike genetic tests at the moment - they aren't very precise, we haven't finished mapping every gene to every people and matched every trait with it either. All in good time. But my people are characterized by how they act (culture) and also their race (how they look, their ancestry, ect) And they don't have to be 100% as I've said before (not that it's too possible to know for sure). So you are willing to accept it even though it has nonwhite influence... It matters how much influence and what it is exactly. That is why European pride DOES make sense. That's exactly why it doesn't! His ancestors did one thing, and other people did this - why should he have pride in something his ancestors didn't do? Nope. Why can't he be proud of his own people? His ancestors and not people that resided NEAR his ancestors? Why not? Why should they not share into what their ancestors have done TOGETHER with nonwhites? Much of it their ancestors had NOTHING TO DO WITH. And, in many cases, their ancestors disagreed with it. You know, people weren't so tolerant of others back then. It is YOUR OPINION that it is "destroying". I think it is ENRICHING. Well, simply put - it's taking something that wasn't bad already, changing it how you want it, and putting it back. in fact the american culture is very RICH and LOVED all over the world because it took up influence from all over the world. So everyone can find something in it and it speaks to EVERYONE If people loved American culture so much, why don't the immigrants celebrate it? PBS is a good example. My multicultural area is a good example. Many other examples exist where you drive to one town, then drive for 30 minutes into another town and experience a radical culture change. If everyone loved American culture, that wouldn't happen. ------The other half you didn't even reply to Jakelong. Here it is again:   No it doen't. As Bud2400 EXPLAINED to you many times individuality comes from a person deciding they are NOT slave to their race or heritage. Isn't cultural diversity about people and their cultures being different and celebrating that? Why can't the same have to do with race?         An asian who decideds to be European in culture because he lives there and is raised there (and not because it is a fad) is MUCH MORE an INDIVIDUAL than an asian who obeys his tradition just because he has a "yellow skin". No, he isn't.    One turns from his ancestors, his family, his people and adapt something foreign people have created that he CAN'T relate his history to.    He is destroying his individuality as he's genetically different from other Europeans (I'm assuming you mean Whites in this context) and is, in some ways, slapping his own people in the face.        If I was a parent and my kids ran away and adopted themselves into another family, what do you think I'd do? What would YOU do if your children said they no longer love you, even though you gave birth to them, loved them, and raised them? What if YOUR CHILDREN ran from you because they find someone else more interesting and better to love?     He could have Australian pride yes. His family DID contribute to building Australia and make it a better place (unless they were bums). Even if they are recent immigrants his family brought money and/or skills needed in australia. In the sense that they brought nothing - then what?         He can be proud of being part of the country he is in and of making his mark. Even MORE than of some irish ancestors from the 19th century unless that ancestor did something cool and great or useful. Screw your family, just be proud of what you have now, not all of the influence your family has given to you!         The fact is no one agrees. I disagree with "European" in your sense - What about that? I know plenty of people that have the same definition of White as me, and many people that have a different definition of European than you.         You are the one who keeps using skin color to make your point about fitness. NEVER have I used genetics as fitness. It's common sense to know that Negroes survive better in their climate because of their skin, and Whites survive in their climate better because of their skin. Skin has VERY LITTLE to do with race.     Maybe but when it comes to pride its a stupid point. Explain why people should be proud to be European - don't use White pride or any other pride in comparison or in your explanation.   jakelong Posted at 7:40 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 9:29 am on Nov. 3, 2008 "European" includes all of those - something I have nothing, and want nothing, to do with. Thats classic throwing the baby with the bathwater. Pretty sad. Doesn't matter for what? For individual and defining a person.   European has different meanings, Pretty much al related with being born or having roots in Europe. Also, doesn't matter for WHAT? For "pride" and defning your identity. I don't love European culture, but WHITE culture. Because it is"white"? So if any part of it has been influenced or touched by nnwhites you don't like it anymore? Pretty sad. And what makes you think White culture isn't White? It is not JUST white. No, European has MANY definitions too. Much fewer than white. And more precise.   I thought you said it only had a skin basis... Genetically its even LESS clear. Obviously not as many people have different ideas. Yep   Europe sure as hell doesn't! Most of Europe has a shared culture yeah. Languages in Europe came from many of the same influence (latin and greek). Many of the music was shared and grouped together. Many of the literature was trasnlated back and forth and printed all over Europe and enjoyed by most of Europeans.   Are you denying that? There are European cultures that have NO effect on my ancestors and are from entirely different populations. Give some examples. There are many European cultures I want NOTHING to do with - and are NOT White. Examples please. Europe doesn't move. Thast not what I said. Re-read the post You can say it's not White because YOU don't know what White is. I don't agree with you on what it is. But really I DON'T CARE! Whites made the culture, take out the "European" adjective for now. Whites made White culture - you can define it as "White" culture as it was made by Whites, just like you define "European" culture as it was made in Europe. But since we  are not sure what "white" is then its moot/ Ok let me ask you: have you  ever heard Gershwin music?is it "white" to you or not? If yes why and if not why not? Have you ever read Kipling? Is it "white" literature to you? If yes  why if no why not? Have you read Cervantes? Is it white to you? if yes why if no why not? Is this "white" architecture or not? If yes why if no why not? Is this "white" art? If yes why if no why not? ANSWER ALL of it.  I love my Folk, and I want to celebrate the culture of all of them - location is irrelevant even if they were all in Europe (though other people were in Europe too). In order to love them you are willing to make them pass a genetics test to make sure they are really 100% white... Whites adopted it as theirs - too late now. So you are willing to accept it even though it has nonwhite influence... technology/science I don't think should stay within a culture as it benefits everyone. Yes technology benefits everyone. Some things, like traditions, entertainment, etc SHOULD stay for individuality and changing that wouldn't help them too much. Nor does it hurt much. Doesn't mean he can share what other Europeans have, the fact that their ancestors contributed to that culture. That is why European pride DOES make sense. The same applies: any White can be proud of White culture. Nope. But MUCH OF EUROPEAN CULTURE is VERY different from White culture and has LITTLE TO NO White routes - a POINTLESS thing for a White to be proud of. Why not? Why should they not share into what their ancestors have done TOGETHER with nonwhites?   Well, it's destroying the culture itself - destruction is good? It is YOUR OPINION that it is "destroying". I think it is ENRICHING. in fact the american culture is very RICH and LOVED all over the world because it took up influence from all over the world. So everyone can find something in it and it speaks to EVERYONE No it doen't. As Bud2400 EXPLAINED to you many times individuality comes from a person deciding they are NOT slave to their race or heritage. Isn't cultural diversity about people and their cultures being different and celebrating that? Why can't the same have to do with race?   An asian who decideds to be European in culture because he lives there and is raised there (and not because it is a fad) is MUCH MORE an INDIVIDUAL than an asian who obeys his tradition just because he has a "yellow skin". No, he isn't. One turns from his ancestors, his family, his people and adapt something foreign people have created that he CAN'T relate his history to. He is destroying his individuality as he's genetically different from other Europeans (I'm assuming you mean Whites in this context) and is, in some ways, slapping his own people in the face.   If I was a parent and my kids ran away and adopted themselves into another family, what do you think I'd do? What would YOU do if your children said they no longer love you, even though you gave birth to them, loved them, and raised them? What if YOUR CHILDREN ran from you because they find someone else more interesting and better to love? He could have Australian pride yes. His family DID contribute to building Australia and make it a better place (unless they were bums). Even if they are recent immigrants his family brought money and/or skills needed in australia. In the sense that they brought nothing - then what?   He can be proud of being part of the country he is in and of making his mark. Even MORE than of some irish ancestors from the 19th century unless that ancestor did something cool and great or useful. Screw your family, just be proud of what you have now, not all of the influence your family has given to you!   The fact is no one agrees. I disagree with "European" in your sense - What about that? I know plenty of people that have the same definition of White as me, and many people that have a different definition of European than you.   You are the one who keeps using skin color to make your point about fitness. NEVER have I used genetics as fitness. It's common sense to know that Negroes survive better in their climate because of their skin, and Whites survive in their climate better because of their skin. Skin has VERY LITTLE to do with race. Maybe but when it comes to pride its a stupid point. Explain why people should be proud to be European - don't use White pride or any other pride in comparison or in your explanation. VanguardofthePeople Posted at 4:04 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Focus on the future not the past. kidd rune Posted at 3:58 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 6:52 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 6:49 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 6:45 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Rune, that was a colossal clusterfuck of a response. The tags in this forum are sucky - when you mess one up, they all screw up.    I'll fix. Much obliged. Alright, done. TheOtherHorseman Posted at 3:52 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 6:49 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 6:45 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Rune, that was a colossal clusterfuck of a response. The tags in this forum are sucky - when you mess one up, they all screw up. I'll fix. Much obliged. kidd rune Posted at 3:49 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from TheOtherHorseman at 6:45 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Rune, that was a colossal clusterfuck of a response. The tags in this forum are sucky - when you mess one up, they all screw up. I'll fix. TheOtherHorseman Posted at 3:45 pm on Nov. 3, 2008 Rune, that was a colossal clusterfuck of a response. kidd rune Posted at 9:29 am on Nov. 3, 2008 And? "European" includes all of those - something I have nothing, and want nothing, to do with. Race does not matter. Culture does. Doesn't matter for what? It has DIFFERENT meanings. White does not matter. European has different meanings, Also, doesn't matter for WHAT? It is INDO-EUROPEAN that can trace their origin back to the black sea. We're not sure if they were ALL whites or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people We ARE sure that those ppl CAME from the black sea and established themselves in India and Europe. The european culture you love so much and refere to come from THAT. It may or may not be WHITE. I don't love European culture, but WHITE culture. And what makes you think White culture isn't White? Which makes European pride MAKE sense and white pride a bunch of bullshit. No, European has MANY definitions too. White has ONLY a racial basis. I thought you said it only had a skin basis... European culture is well defined. Obviously not as many people have different ideas. Not a common one no. Europe sure as hell doesn't! Your white ancestors ahve a COMMON culture only BECAUSE of the European culture. Since they were White, it can be considered White culture too. There are European cultures that have NO effect on my ancestors and are from entirely different populations. There are many European cultures I want NOTHING to do with - and are NOT White. Yep. The culture they have and are proud of is EUROPEAN no matter when they moved in and how. Their culture is NOT "white" Europe doesn't move. You can say it's not White because YOU don't know what White is. White Eruopean MADE the european culture in large part yeah. But that culture is European first. Its race is irrelevant. Whites made the culture, take out the "European" adjective for now. Whites made White culture - you can define it as "White" culture as it was made by Whites, just like you define "European" culture as it was made in Europe. Race is IRRELEVANT TO YOU! I love my Folk, and I want to celebrate the culture of all of them - location is irrelevant even if they were all in Europe (though other people were in Europe too). What basis? I gave you alist of items from what you call white culture that has nonwhite influence and YOU admitted it. Whites adopted it as theirs - too late now. Some things are different though - technology/science I don't think should stay within a culture as it benefits everyone. Some things, like traditions, entertainment, etc SHOULD stay for individuality and changing that wouldn't help them too much. So? Wat matters is his culture. If he adopts the Eruopean culture FULLY nd loves it and admires it there is NO reason he can't be proud of it. Of course - anyone in Europe can be proud of European culture. Doesn't mean he can share what other Europeans have, the fact that their ancestors contributed to that culture. The same applies: any White can be proud of White culture. To that person the culture he adopted is more important than the race he belong to. To THAT person. "Tainting" is an opinion. Sure it is. Which can really be defined through European culture mostly. Even white culture in America is mostly European culture and European TASTE. But MUCH OF EUROPEAN CULTURE is VERY different from White culture and has LITTLE TO NO White routes - a POINTLESS thing for a White to be proud of. OPINION OPINION Well, it's destroying the culture itself - destruction is good? No it doen't. As Bud2400 EXPLAINED to you many times individuality comes from a person deciding they are NOT slave to their race or heritage. Isn't cultural diversity about people and their cultures being different and celebrating that? Why can't the same have to do with race? An asian who decideds to be European in culture because he lives there and is raised there (and not because it is a fad) is MUCH MORE an INDIVIDUAL than an asian who obeys his tradition just because he has a "yellow skin". No, he isn't. One turns from his ancestors, his family, his people and adapt something foreign people have created that he CAN'T relate his history to. He is destroying his individuality as he's genetically different from other Europeans (I'm assuming you mean Whites in this context) and is, in some ways, slapping his own people in the face. If I was a parent and my kids ran away and adopted themselves into another family, what do you think I'd do? What would YOU do if your children said they no longer love you, even though you gave birth to them, loved them, and raised them? What if YOUR CHILDREN ran from you because they find someone else more interesting and better to love? He could have Australian pride yes. His family DID contribute to building Australia and make it a better place (unless they were bums). Even if they are recent immigrants his family brought money and/or skills needed in australia. In the sense that they brought nothing - then what? He can be proud of being part of the country he is in and of making his mark. Even MORE than of some irish ancestors from the 19th century unless that ancestor did something cool and great or useful. Screw your family, just be proud of what you have now, not all of the influence your family has given to you! The fact is no one agrees. I disagree with "European" in your sense - What about that? I know plenty of people that have the same definition of White as me, and many people that have a different definition of European than you. You are the one who keeps using skin color to make your point about fitness. NEVER have I used genetics as fitness. It's common sense to know that Negroes survive better in their climate because of their skin, and Whites survive in their climate better because of their skin. Skin has VERY LITTLE to do with race. Maybe but when it comes to pride its a stupid point. Explain why people should be proud to be European - don't use White pride or any other pride in comparison or in your explanation. Move? If you can't do that yet (Like me for example) The perpetuation of that which already exists: truly the greatest of [s]mankind's[/s] white people's accomplishments. You didn't give an answer. Ah, influence rendered tangential by the passing of time and the filtering of intervening generations! It warms my heart to think of it! My ancestors influence me more than my country ever has collectively. TheOtherHorseman Posted at 4:33 am on Nov. 3, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 4:44 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 What if your country doesn't do anything for you? Move? Why can't you be proud of your ancestors? What about their traditions they've passed on throughout generations? The perpetuation of that which already exists: truly the greatest of mankind's white people's accomplishments. What about their influence to their kids, who influenced their kids, who influenced their kids [10 generations later] who influenced your parents who influenced you? Ah, influence rendered tangential by the passing of time and the filtering of intervening generations! It warms my heart to think of it! jakelong Posted at 9:27 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 12:55 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 Europe was invaded by Huns, Mongols, Turks, Arabs, and many, many others. And? There is NO racial similarity as people of different races have, naturally, inhabited Europe. Race does not matter. Culture does. White has a MEANING It has DIFFERENT meanings. White does not matter. Wrong. Whites themselves can trace their ancestry OUTSIDE OF EUROPE. It is INDO-EUROPEAN that can trace their origin back to the black sea. We're not sure if they were ALL whites or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_people We ARE sure that those ppl CAME from the black sea and established themselves in India and Europe. The european culture you love so much and refere to come from THAT. It may or may not be WHITE. Which makes European pride no better than White pride. Which makes European pride MAKE sense and white pride a bunch of bullshit. White pride has a cultural and racial basis. White has ONLY a racial basis. European pride has culture and race from every part of the world since people have immigrated/invaded Europe from time to time throughout history. European culture is well defined. White has culture and history also. Are you implying that Whites have no history and no culture? Not a common one no. Are you saying that my White ancestors didn't have a culture? Your white ancestors ahve a COMMON culture only BECAUSE of the European culture. they could've moved around to Asia or Australia - would that make me have Asian/Australian pride instead? Yep. The culture they have and are proud of is EUROPEAN no matter when they moved in and how. Their culture is NOT "white" What's your point? I have more in common with Whites from Australia or South Africa than Lappish mongoloid natives of Europe. Thats what YOU think. If the asian is native from Eruope and ADOPTED the European culture I can GUARANTEE you WOULD NOT even know they were asian just from talking to them on the forum. The whites from Australia share culture with you BECAUSE they are from Europe and NOT because they are white. But Europe has White culture. White Eruopean MADE the european culture in large part yeah. But that culture is European first. Its race is irrelevant.  Europe has Arab culture. Yes some. Europe has Mongol culture. A bit less so. Europe has MANY cultures Whites do too, but it has a BASIS. What basis? I gave you alist of items from what you call white culture that has nonwhite influence and YOU admitted it. But that Asian is European, but his ancestors aren't So? Wat matters is his culture. If he adopts the Eruopean culture FULLY nd loves it and admires it there is NO reason he can't be proud of it. his ancestors didn't really do anything to contribute to his culture. To that person the culture he adopted is more important than the race he belong to.   OPINION! OPINION! "Tainting" is an opinion. Anyway, I wasn't using EUROPEAN culture, but WHITE culture. Which can really be defined through European culture mostly. Even white culture in America is mostly European culture and European TASTE. NonWhite influence on White culture isn't good OPINION OPINION it takes away individuality No it doen't. As Bud2400 EXPLAINED to you many times individuality comes from a person deciding they are NOT slave to their race or heritage. An asian who decideds to be European in culture because he lives there and is raised there (and not because it is a fad) is MUCH MORE an INDIVIDUAL than an asian who obeys his tradition just because he has a "yellow skin". So if all of Jimmy's ancestors are from Europe but his parents moved to Australia right before he was born, he should have Australian pride, something his family, his people, his ancestors have contributed NOTHING to instead of what his ancestors HAVE contributed to? He could have Australian pride yes. His family DID contribute to building Australia and make it a better place (unless they were bums). Even if they are recent immigrants his family brought money and/or skills needed in australia. He can be proud of being part of the country he is in and of making his mark. Even MORE than of some irish ancestors from the 19th century unless that ancestor did something cool and great or useful. No. Just because someone thinks White is JUST a skin color and someone thinks it's more doesn't mean that it has no definition therefore there is no reason to be proud of it at all. The fact is no one agrees. You're the one speaking of skin color like it defines race. You are the one who keeps using skin color to make your point about fitness. And to some people White means more than European. Maybe but when it comes to pride its a stupid point. kidd rune Posted at 1:44 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 Um. Yes. It isn't about what your goddamn grandfather did, or what the country did for him. It is about what you do and your country did for you. What if your country doesn't do anything for you? Why can't you be proud of your ancestors? What about their traditions they've passed on throughout generations? What about their influence to their kids, who influenced their kids, who influenced their kids [10 generations later] who influenced your parents who influenced you? TheOtherHorseman Posted at 1:28 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 So if all of Jimmy's ancestors are from Europe but his parents moved to Australia right before he was born, he should have Australian pride, something his family, his people, his ancestors have contributed NOTHING to instead of what his ancestors HAVE contributed to? Um. Yes. It isn't about what your goddamn grandfather did, or what the country did for him. It is about what you do and your country did for you. kidd rune Posted at 12:55 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 Eruopean is WAYMORE specifc than white. Europeans share the SAME history and culture mostly. Bullshit. Europe was invaded by Huns, Mongols, Turks, Arabs, and many, many others. There is NO racial similarity as people of different races have, naturally, inhabited Europe. White has a MEANING, just because some people don't know it doesn't mean it doesn't have one. Whites ONLY share the same history IF THEY have common European heritage. Wrong. Whites themselves can trace their ancestry OUTSIDE OF EUROPE. A hispanic white who is not connected to Spain directly will have LESS in common with Spanish ppl than an arabic nonwhite who lived in Europe all their life. Which makes European pride no better than White pride. White pride has a cultural and racial basis. European pride has culture and race from every part of the world since people have immigrated/invaded Europe from time to time throughout history. So yeah being proud to be European is fine BECAUSE it does not have to be related to skin color or race but related to HERITAGE (culture and history) which is MORE important for a person. White has culture and history also. Are you implying that Whites have no history and no culture? Are you saying that my White ancestors didn't have a culture? Sure, they lived in Europe, but they could've moved around to Asia or Australia - would that make me have Asian/Australian pride instead? One of my buddies is black from Nigeria. He has MORE in common with whites and Asians than OTHER blacks in my hood. And yes he's proud of his African heritage. What's your point? I have more in common with Whites from Australia or South Africa than Lappish mongoloid natives of Europe. African american heritage though is not the same as African heritage. Okay... So race don't matter as much as culture. But Europe has White culture. Europe has Arab culture. Europe has Mongol culture. Europe has MANY cultures - Whites do too, but it has a BASIS. Sre but who cares? An asian who grows up in Europe and learns the language and lives like a European can be proud to BE European. A White who has ancestors from many generations can be even MORE proud if he wants of course. But that Asian is European, but his ancestors aren't - he can only be proud of himself, his ancestors didn't really do anything to contribute to his culture. The arabic influence did not "taint" Eruopean cultue. It ENRICHED it. OPINION! OPINION! Anyway, I wasn't using EUROPEAN culture, but WHITE culture. NonWhite influence on White culture isn't good - it takes away individuality and DIVERSITY (isn't that was multiculturalism is about - diverse people?) What comes from my birth is MORE than race. Its all the education and the teachings of my parents and the culture they share with me. I got MORE influence from my mom who is latina because I LIVE with her and she shares her culture with me. I have LESS influence from my dad because he bailed out on us. So even though I am Mexican filipino Irish, I don't know ANY tagalog or gaelic (but I do try to learn a bit about them). So what INFLUENCES ME is the culture and heritage thats pased on to me MORE than the DNA. So if all of Jimmy's ancestors are from Europe but his parents moved to Australia right before he was born, he should have Australian pride, something his family, his people, his ancestors have contributed NOTHING to instead of what his ancestors HAVE contributed to? A lot of words and ideas have MANY deifinition. When one has too many defnitins its not as precise so its stupid to use it as the basis of your whole life. No. Just because someone thinks White is JUST a skin color and someone thinks it's more doesn't mean that it has no definition therefore there is no reason to be proud of it at all. You keep repeating the bit about sun and skin color like it matters. It matters to put on sunscreen more sure. But its not like it prevents you from surviving in a sunny area. Otherwise there'd be no whites in California. You're the one speaking of skin color like it defines race. To many other ppl also, including whites. And to some people White means more than European. jakelong Posted at 12:10 pm on Nov. 2, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 8:38 pm on Nov. 1, 2008 Many people have different meanings of "European" - how is that any better? Eruopean is WAYMORE specifc than white. Europeans share the SAME history and culture mostly. Whites ONLY share the same history IF THEY have common European heritage. A hispanic white who is not connected to Spain directly will have LESS in common with Spanish ppl than an arabic nonwhite who lived in Europe all their life. So yeah being proud to be European is fine BECAUSE it does not have to be related to skin color or race but related to HERITAGE (culture and history) which is MORE important for a person. One of my buddies is black from Nigeria. He has MORE in common with whites and Asians than OTHER blacks in my hood. And yes he's proud of his African heritage. African american heritage though is not the same as African heritage. So race don't matter as much as culture. Well, almost all Whites are European, but there are nonWhite Europeans too. Sre but who cares? An asian who grows up in Europe and learns the language and lives like a European can be proud to BE European. A White who has ancestors from many generations can be even MORE proud if he wants of course. Well, we need to stop any more influence from tainting it again! The arabic influence did not "taint" Eruopean cultue. It ENRICHED it. Heritage:something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth So you're not born into your race? What comes from my birth is MORE than race. Its all the education and the teachings of my parents and the culture they share with me. I got MORE influence from my mom who is latina because I LIVE with her and she shares her culture with me. I have LESS influence from my dad because he bailed out on us. So even though I am Mexican filipino Irish, I don't know ANY tagalog or gaelic (but I do try to learn a bit about them). So what INFLUENCES ME is the culture and heritage thats pased on to me MORE than the DNA. Doesn't matter how it's defined - it OBVIOUSLY has ONE definition, it's just that many people disagree. A lot of words and ideas have MANY deifinition. When one has too many defnitins its not as precise so its stupid to use it as the basis of your whole life. I NEVER use skin as race, EVER. You keep repeating the bit about sun and skin color like it matters. It matters to put on sunscreen more sure. But its not like it prevents you from surviving in a sunny area. Otherwise there'd be no whites in California. To YOU it does. To many other ppl also, including whites.   kidd rune Posted at 8:38 pm on Nov. 1, 2008 Yeah you can be as stupid as you want. Jakelong - You claim being proud of Whiteness is "stupid" because some people have different meaning of "White" Many people have different meanings of "European" - how is that any better? All the hings you mention as good were made by Europeans. Well, almost all Whites are European, but there are nonWhite Europeans too. Sure. And so wat you call white culture is NOT PURE white. Well, we need to stop any more influence from tainting it again! It means you are obessessed with race rather than HERITAGE.. Heritage:something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth So you're not born into your race? Sure. But Eruopean culture is well defined. White culture is not. Doesn't matter how it's defined - it OBVIOUSLY has ONE definition, it's just that many people disagree. Yeah y do. YOu change what white means all the time Sometimes you focus on skin. Sometimes on genetics, sometimes on traits. I NEVER use skin as race, EVER. Still means more than "White" To YOU it does. 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