Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic The Truth About Depression Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]MourningAir[/m] at 12:47 am on Nov. 29, 2008[quote]What? Can I get some proof of how you're able to control chemicals in your body...?[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post Mr Positive Posted at 12:46 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Depression can only exist in your own mind, it doesn't exist outside, it only exists on the inside... And that's great! Because you are in control of your own self! You just don't realize that you are. It is true that depression is a chemical embalance in the brain..... but you are in control of these chemcials by choosing how to think.... If you choose to think positive thoughts, these chemicals will increase. If you choose to think negatively, these chemicals will of course decrease. The only (and I mean only) way you will ever rid yourself of depression is by simply "believing" it away. If you no longer "believe" in depression, then you will only have room in your mind for positive thinking, which will then increase these chemcials. As long as you "believe" that you are depressed, then the depression won't go away. But you can lose it instantly by simply "believing" it away. Don't "try" and get rid of depression, just "convince" yourself that it isnt there. And if you don't believe what i'm telling you..... then again, its because you "choose" not to believe me, just like you "choose" to believe in depression.

Replies iconoclast Posted at 11:35 pm on Dec. 1, 2008 Quote: from MourningAir at 7:09 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 That's my whole problem with this crap though. I have to sit here and wait for something to inspire me enough to change my thinking completely? I'd rather take some pills, go to therapy, and feel like I'm making an effort to get better. Alright ill try the best i can but this might be unsatisfactory because seriously in this state im not really able to recount things accurately in any substantial level of detail the basic 'tenet' of my new mindset was that i basically framed nearly EVERYTHING in terms of the big rather than the small, which caused a lot of typical social interactions and activities to seem extremely ignorant and predictable in effect, this gave me a feeling of being 'beyond' the rest, though this wasnt just some narcissistic crap, it was through my own experience and effort, and it was something that i WANTED others to be (rather than just being 'better') i also framed what happened to me, my feelings, my life situation, etc, in terms of the large scale. instead of being friendless because i was boring (though, no doubt, I could still improve and everyone can), I was friendless because other people were incompatible with a higher level of emotional depth/friendship that i required, and i both disliked and had trouble faking pleasant social interaction unless i really wanted something (which I never particularly did). i was just giving an example though, i did have friends, at one point quite a few, but after awhile i completely burned all my bridges because i got sick of the half assed bullshit this whole thing also brought a VERY strong level of 'morality' with it and a huge desire to push for change in any way possible, which obviously i had no outlet for, leading eventually to stagnation in a way, id say i "rose above" my 'life'. no longer did i just look at my life as my own life, i looked at it in terms of a grand scale. i dont know if this can be planned or what, but i was severely depressed for about for years, so it can be overcome as i said though, its really not pleasant at all, i wanted to kill myself out of boredom and frustration for about two years on and off (the off being stoicism). i still wouldnt mind being blown off the face of the planet, but i was much more ready and had philosophical reasons instead of emotional ones. there was also a sense of strength, a sense of being in the right and struggling against a force that cannot be overcome as opposed to just being inept im not sure if youre on the pills still but since what i went through involved a lot of emotions running high id predict that it would probably make this less likely thats all i can say anyway Anonymous Posted at 2:00 pm on Dec. 1, 2008 Yes but life OUTSIDE my brain is awful. I tried to be positive and that worked for a while when I was young, but life is still awful. I'm not going to even bother lying to myself about all that again. You are an incredibly annoying person (sorry). theyareAs Posted at 6:00 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from Mr Positive at 12:50 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Quote: from Jman19 at 12:48 am on Nov. 29, 2008 I can't just 'believe' it is not there. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. You don't believe me, because you "believe" not to believe me. You are depressed because you "believe" that you are. Don't you see the connection? Replace "depression" with religion and god.... iconoclast Posted at 5:18 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from MourningAir at 7:09 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 That's my whole problem with this crap though. I have to sit here and wait for something to inspire me enough to change my thinking completely? I'd rather take some pills, go to therapy, and feel like I'm making an effort to get better. ill try to think more about this and think of something active that I did, but i mean people can do active things, but they wont directly influence, so i can see what youre saying because it seems hopeless especially in that state i had this typed up so ill come back later after im finished with this MourningAir Posted at 4:09 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 That's my whole problem with this crap though. I have to sit here and wait for something to inspire me enough to change my thinking completely? I'd rather take some pills, go to therapy, and feel like I'm making an effort to get better. iconoclast Posted at 4:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from MourningAir at 7:02 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 When something is cyclical, it matters not whether it's cause or effect because it can be considered both. The things listed in the article are common theories as to why depression occurs. Mind you, neuroplasticity itself is not fact but rather a theory as well. I think what you're missing here is that if the brain does "break" itself it is typically the result of something outside of the person's control, some traumatic event. Does anyone set out to fuck their brain over? No, so how can you expect that if you set out to think happy things it's going to be enough of an epiphany to change the wiring in your brain?? well neuroplasticity has generally been shown to be true in many ways people dont set out to fuck themselves over obviously but indirect things can fuck people over, such as lackings, misguided beliefs/thoughts, traumatic events, and a million other things so any change has to be indirect, i sure as hell didnt do what i did thinking "im going to stop being depressed", it just 'happened', but I indirectly caused it MourningAir Posted at 4:02 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 When something is cyclical, it matters not whether it's cause or effect because it can be considered both. The things listed in the article are common theories as to why depression occurs. Mind you, neuroplasticity itself is not fact but rather a theory as well. I think what you're missing here is that if the brain does "break" itself it is typically the result of something outside of the person's control, some traumatic event. Does anyone set out to fuck their brain over? No, so how can you expect that if you set out to think happy things it's going to be enough of an epiphany to change the wiring in your brain?? iconoclast Posted at 3:33 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from MourningAir at 4:55 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 "Possible problems include low brain cell production of serotonin, a lack of receptor sites able to receive the serotonin that is made, inability of serotonin to reach the receptor sites, or a shortage in tryptophan, the chemical from which serotonin is made. If any of these biochemical glitches occur, researchers believe it can lead to depression, as well as obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, panic, and even excess anger." http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/serotonin-9-questions-and-answers That's missing the point, there's no evidence whatsoever that its caused by a biochemical glitch, and it doesn't even make sense given how these problems work in general. If hypothetically these 'glitches' were found, there wouldn't be any reason why it's cause instead of effect. Please provide some evidence that your brain is able to fix itself to such a degree that it would be able to restore all of the aforementioned things to normal. Because it's the same exact thing as the brain 'breaking itself'; just changing to the environment.  I'm tired of people claiming this shit but failing to back it up. Seriously it's getting old. I'm all ears, I'll listen to whatever you say as long as you can give me SOME kind of scientific evidence. It's just neuroplasticity, the concept has been applied to many other mental things, but for some reason people tend to skip it over when having to do with mental disorder. Really I'm way too lazy to look shit up atm but it intuitively makes sense that the brain can change for the better if it can change for the worse. And I agree that yes for some people the things you listed are why they cannot get better... but what happens when you face your problems? You look them in the fucking eye, you fall asleep every night confronting them. You face change like it's nothing, you're not afraid of it. What then? How long must you do this for? Please do tell me because I've been depressed since I was 11, I can pinpoint every thing leading up to it and that still doesn't mean shit. I'm not afraid of changing, of fixing things. Well eventually you gain enough confidence in yourself so that it's literally incompatible with being 'depressed'. I gained confidence through not only understanding my past history, but understanding how really broad things in the world tied into it. But not only that, idk, i cant describe this shit well because things are all clouded in my head, but I remember realizing how much of a 'joke' everything was, seeing a huge amount of the big picture, and kind of shifting my focus from myself to the grand scale. But it isn't all its cut out to be, because once you're here you can't turn back, and being at the top where few people can relate to anything you say is really lonely. So I went through mounting frustration and eventually stagnated completely and might eventually just call it quits (if you know what I mean), but in a way its doing whats 'right' and its even 'heroic', in the utmost tragic way that is I honestly think this is better than being depressed but not the result that most people hope for, but if enough people were like this, even just five percent, maybe things would be better. i dont think however that people can just return to their 'old self', once things shift, theyre not going back MourningAir Posted at 2:02 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 The only reason I'm defending anti-depressants is because they do help depression that's caused by anxiety MourningAir Posted at 1:55 pm on Nov. 30, 2008 "Possible problems include low brain cell production of serotonin, a lack of receptor sites able to receive the serotonin that is made, inability of serotonin to reach the receptor sites, or a shortage in tryptophan, the chemical from which serotonin is made. If any of these biochemical glitches occur, researchers believe it can lead to depression, as well as obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, panic, and even excess anger." http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/serotonin-9-questions-and-answers Please provide some evidence that your brain is able to fix itself to such a degree that it would be able to restore all of the aforementioned things to normal. I'm tired of people claiming this shit but failing to back it up. Seriously it's getting old. I'm all ears, I'll listen to whatever you say as long as you can give me SOME kind of scientific evidence. And positive thinking, there's a reason that by itself it doesn't work. I can sit here and remove my negative thoughts. I can sit here and tell myself to think positive ones... BUT WHAT IS POSITIVE TO ME? I can think of stereotypically "positive" things but that does NOTHING for me, what is that shit to me? I can think of things in my life that others would consider to be "positive" but for me they represent a lack of hardwork, the fact that I didn't see things completely through. I can think all the positive thoughts in the world but they don't mean jack shit to me. And I agree that yes for some people the things you listed are why they cannot get better... but what happens when you face your problems? You look them in the fucking eye, you fall asleep every night confronting them. You face change like it's nothing, you're not afraid of it. What then? How long must you do this for? Please do tell me because I've been depressed since I was 11, I can pinpoint every thing leading up to it and that still doesn't mean shit. I'm not afraid of changing, of fixing things. iconoclast Posted at 11:19 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from OodleNoodle at 3:07 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from Mr Positive at 1:21 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:17 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Attention everyone! You can now stop cancer just by thinking it doesn't exist! It really works! Mr Positive said if you don't acknowledge things your body does then they won't happen!   No, you can't "stop" cancer, but positive thinking will decrease your chances of getting it.   It's mainly negative people that you find in hospital beds, and not just for cancer, but for many other reasons (alot of them mental) How dare you. HOW DARE YOU insinuate that people that are dying are they because they didn't THINK BLOODY POSITIVE!   My best friend's mother walked her dogs every day, twice a day. She was a nurse. She got regular checkups, mammograms, bone density tests etc. She ate only organic food - no processed food, no junk food and hardly any sugar. And she was one of the most cheery, smiley people you could ever meet.   Yes, she was hit by cancer. When they found out, there was nothing they could do. She died less than two weeks later.   Positive fucking thinking doesn't do anything, so shut up with your nonsense. He probably doesn't understand what he's talking about but he does have a point, it's not about 'consciously thinking positive' that will change depression/bipolar or whatever. "Positive thinking" is literally incompatible with the depressed mindset. "Mental illness" represents a significant shift in perspective as is (as well as an inability to cope with the situation and the exposing of the fragility of the modern lifestyle), and to 'break free' of it, one has to accept a lot of very difficult things and massively shift their own worldview. Essentially, I think people have a tendency to hang on to 'mental disorders' because: 1) they can't come to terms with new 'realizations' which are too difficult to take, especially without support 2) they can't iron themselves out and figure out why they feel the way they do, again partly because of lack of support 3) they're not encouraged to do the above by society, but rather just stay back in their previous lifestyle and automatically 'fix' themselves 4) The drugs actually blunt mental processes as a way to take the edge off, and make it even more difficult to get to the roots of the problem(s) 5) It's a 'safety zone' and it's sure as hell not easy to break free of ones' comfort zones, especially when already hurting pretty bad Getting over 'mental illness' can be accomplished through a massive shift of worldview that has been coming for a long time, but not through 'willing yourself out of it' or something. iconoclast Posted at 11:15 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from MourningAir at 4:19 am on Nov. 29, 2008 I don't think you're using much logic here. You're saying that by using your mind you can change something you yourself admit is influenced by brain chemistry. Brain chemistry is not reliant upon your thoughts, it's a biological thing. Of course I believe a human being's mind is more powerful than the concept of a god... I think we can convince ourselves of many things but the fact remains that just by "willing" something you're not going to change something you admit to be biological. Brain chemistry is COMPLETELY related to your thoughts and your psychological state, in fact it IS the same thing in a way. Just the physical manifestation of emotional problems, since the brain adjusts to the environment and such. It takes an effort few magnitudes greater than just 'pushing yourself out of it' to do anything though. OodleNoodle Posted at 12:15 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Everybody thats managed to get over depression will tell you that its because they "believed" they didnt have it anymore. No, sorry. Both of my parents, my best friend and myself have suffered from depression. All of us needed medication to do it. There goes your "proof". As I said earlier..... yes, depression is to do with chemicals in your mind..... but what these so called "great scientists" fail to tell you, is the simple FACT, that you are in control of these chemicals. Only you can make them go up. So enlighten me, please? Why do people have panic attacks? Do they will themselves to freak out in public? Like I said, if you go on a roller coaster, chemicals increase, and you feel great. No. I do not feel great when I go on roller coasters. I am usually screaming my head off or keeping my mouth closed as tightly as possible so that I don't throw up all over the place. It is not a conscious choice to produce adrenaline. You sir, are a fucking twit. I would really love it if you would shove all of your "knowledge" back up your ass where you got it from and leave. OodleNoodle Posted at 12:07 am on Nov. 30, 2008 Quote: from Mr Positive at 1:21 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Quote: from TheLastMagister at 1:17 am on Nov. 29, 2008 Attention everyone! You can now stop cancer just by thinking it doesn't exist! It really works! Mr Positive said if you don't acknowledge things your body does then they won't happen! No, you can't "stop" cancer, but positive thinking will decrease your chances of getting it. It's mainly negative people that you find in hospital beds, and not just for cancer, but for many other reasons (alot of them mental) How dare you. HOW DARE YOU insinuate that people that are dying are they because they didn't THINK BLOODY POSITIVE! My best friend's mother walked her dogs every day, twice a day. She was a nurse. She got regular checkups, mammograms, bone density tests etc. She ate only organic food - no processed food, no junk food and hardly any sugar. And she was one of the most cheery, smiley people you could ever meet. Yes, she was hit by cancer. When they found out, there was nothing they could do. She died less than two weeks later. Positive fucking thinking doesn't do anything, so shut up with your nonsense. W o n d e r l a n d Posted at 5:08 am on Nov. 29, 2008 I am going to repeat what everyone else just said... You are a fucking moron Most recent 15 of 84 previous replies displayed.