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Original Post
3ffigy Posted at 3:58 pm on Dec. 24, 2007
me and my friend are both very confused people in terms of how American society shapes us into somethign we dont want to be .. about how we are basically forced to adhere to or obey laws or have to go to college to live a good life ...we have both experienced profound times through psychedelic drugs and non mainstream music ... this is our conversation about college and other things .. feel free to comment and discuss.....(names have been changed)...

Andy (4:15:41 PM): So you chillin tonight?
Andy (4:16:14 PM): Shoman said this song made him feel like he was rollin. Tell me whatchoo think
Mike (4:16:16 PM): yea prolly i dunno ... kinda dont feel like comin thru to brian's and doin the same old shit
Andy (4:16:25 PM): That shit is dull
Andy (4:16:33 PM): but then again, what isn't?
Andy (4:16:49 PM): I don't go there because I enjoy being there or some shit
Andy (4:17:03 PM): I just need a place to get fucked up without the possibility of legal recourse
Mike (4:17:37 PM): and yet im always in a place like that yet i still come thru
Andy (4:18:02 PM): I'd come to your house more but, you know, I'm a broke fiend
Mike (4:18:13 PM): hehe
Andy (4:18:13 PM): I'd much rather go there and listen to music
Andy (4:18:27 PM): but when you don't got $4 to spare, you don't got $4 to spare
Andy (4:18:34 PM): Tell me whatchoo think of the song
Mike (4:19:09 PM): its good yp
Mike (4:19:11 PM): yo*
Andy (4:20:42 PM): I gotta find some better shit to do with my life
Andy (4:21:09 PM): I feel like everything good within me is dying the more I hang out with Brian and Rob. I don't wanna be on some generic wannabe-gangsta shit like them for the rest of my life.
Andy (4:21:19 PM): Well, actually, Brian could feasibly be a gangster if he wanted to
Andy (4:21:21 PM): but Rob's a bitch
Andy (4:21:24 PM): but thinks he isn't
Mike (4:21:26 PM): rofl
Andy (4:21:28 PM): because he doesn't dress the part
Andy (4:21:47 PM): I wanna meet people who don't think that they become something just because they dress the part.
Andy (4:22:20 PM): and that nigga Al, even though he's a shallow bastard, he made a mad good point the other day which has resonated with me ever since I heard him make it
Mike (4:22:38 PM): what's that
Andy (4:23:37 PM): basically that you can't really treat drug friends like regular friends or expect them to be there for you because all they do is use you
Andy (4:23:49 PM): and it's very true and sadly it's only recently that I've come to terms with that
Andy (4:24:22 PM): which has made me more spiteful towards people in general...I feel like every day brings me closer to some sort of killing spree or mayve just suicide
Andy (4:24:25 PM): This shit sucks. :/
Andy (4:24:35 PM): Not that I'm accusing you of that or anything
Andy (4:24:43 PM): but people like Brian and Rob...they use you
Andy (4:25:17 PM): and only act like your friend when you got dough and shit
Mike (4:25:24 PM): well i hope you know im not like that ... to tell you the truth . im not a feind for drugs weed or whatever .. i can go fine without it .. i just smoke so i wouldnt be alone but lately ive been feeling like it doesnt make much difference anymore
Andy (4:25:33 PM): yo tell me honestly has anyone talked shit about me behind my back while I wasn't there?
Andy (4:26:37 PM): I think everyone is like that on some level, though. Probably even me. I mean, in regards to like karl, definitely
Andy (4:26:59 PM): It's not even Brian, really. I mean, Brian's greedy and grimy as fuck but who isn't?
Andy (4:27:21 PM): Rob on the other hand is just a shallow bitch
Andy (4:27:31 PM): who cares about stupid shit
Mike (4:28:40 PM): its surprising that you chose to talk to me about this because ive always felt that you acted as a friend when i had weed or do and whenever you owed me or something else you were just negative or indifferent ..
Andy (4:29:07 PM): I guess I can be somewhat of a fairweather friend...it's not really intentional
Andy (4:29:14 PM): if I wanted to straight up USE you, you'd know
Andy (4:29:18 PM): I mean, come on, you're not Lori. lol
Andy (4:29:37 PM): My point is, I'm trying not to be like that
Andy (4:29:50 PM): and I feel like the more I keep chilling with them the more I turn into this generic scum
Andy (4:30:00 PM): always trolling for pussy or money or weed
Mike (4:30:15 PM): yeah im not socially distraught where i dont know the difference between whos a friend for what reason and so on .. i understand tho
Andy (4:31:12 PM): When it comes right down to it, though, no one gives a fuck about you except your family and MAYBE a girl if you're lucky enough to be involved with a nice one
Andy (4:31:27 PM): That shit is just starting to hit home like fully
Mike (4:32:01 PM): in hischool and on i only acted like weed was most important because everyone else did but really i just wanted friends n shit .. there are people that arent like this .. but they arent around too often
Andy (4:32:33 PM): I always liked people until about a year ago. Now, I hate nearly everyone.
Andy (4:34:15 PM): Don't you hate it when the music you're listening to kind of synchronizes with the emotional tone of the conversation you're having? "Washer" by Slint has never sounded more appropriate than now
Mike (4:34:48 PM): yeah thats happened to me before heh /// that songs pretty depressing
Andy (4:35:24 PM): I tried to tell some people at Dono about Spiderland...they didn't know what the fuck I was talking about
Andy (4:35:39 PM): and I don't think they would even appreciate it if they were lucky enough to find that shit on their own
Andy (4:35:53 PM): I mean, you can probably imagine my reaction the first time I heard Spiderland
Andy (4:36:05 PM): I was like in the 7th fucking grade. This record changed my life.
Mike (4:36:20 PM): hah i know what you mean
Andy (4:36:53 PM): I think they are pretty much the greatest conventional guitar-based rock band
Andy (4:37:12 PM): Bardo's output is more vast but SLint's discography is flawless
Mike (4:37:59 PM): anyway bouyt the question before .. honestly noone talk shit about you when your not there ... i used to tell walt you were inconsiderate awhile ago and walt said some things but lately or for the past year there hasnt been any shittalking about anyone cept karl and lori .. and i dunno about me .. i kinda get the feeling walt talks shit bout me
Andy (4:38:27 PM): I don't think he does...I mean, at least not around me
Andy (4:38:41 PM): What did walt say? lol
Mike (4:39:51 PM): uh i dont really remeber but nothing to the point where there wuld be any feelings of embarrassment or whatever .. think it was on the lines on you having a bad temper but like i said it was awhile ago
Andy (4:40:07 PM): I can't even deny that
Andy (4:40:12 PM): I have a horrible temper
Andy (4:40:22 PM): I mean, come on, I broke my dad's arm :/
Mike (4:40:31 PM): you did -.o?
Andy (4:40:36 PM): but that's part of what pisses me off so much about people like Rob
Andy (4:40:43 PM): they just think they're tough because they dress the part
Andy (4:40:56 PM): He probably thinks he's tougher than me because he dresses blacker or some shit
Andy (4:41:14 PM): and I have a feeling him and brian talk shit about me behind my back. could you try to find out the next time they come to your crib or some shit?
Mike (4:41:33 PM): well noone can ever change that .. you cant hate a certain grp of people you must hate the whole species
Andy (4:41:36 PM): and yeah, I did. Not something I'm proud of.
Mike (4:42:04 PM): you just took it and broke it or you had a fight ?
Andy (4:42:40 PM): Well, he struck me and I just got really mad and slammed him down on the ground
Mike (4:42:45 PM): i never heard brian or rob talk shit bout nayone cept karl and lori
Andy (4:43:09 PM): and he ended up shattering his wrist
Andy (4:43:16 PM): It was one of the worst moments of my life.
Mike (4:43:30 PM): damn i could imagine .. must have sucked
Andy (4:44:05 PM): Yeah I still feel horrible about it.
Mike (4:45:19 PM): anyway .. i used to talk shit with walt about people .. but i feel like ive become wiser to the point where i realize when ppl talk smack that its only to make themselves feel better .. so i definitely dont say anything about anyone cept those i dont know
Andy (4:46:26 PM): Oh, of course. It's the standard method of feeding one's ego...by belittling others for whatever reason
Mike (4:46:35 PM): =)
Andy (4:46:54 PM): be it the color of their skin, the way they talk, their sexual orientation, nationality etc. etc.
Andy (4:47:14 PM): That's part of why I stopped going to college
Andy (4:47:32 PM): I was sick and tired of my "fellow" students fucking staring at me all the time
Andy (4:48:06 PM): like I was some kind of pathetic creature merely there for their amusement. I fucking hate college, and that shit is probably always going to hold me back.
Andy (4:48:24 PM): I get more and more desperate and pyschotic and murderous everyday.
Mike (4:48:40 PM): its understandable
Mike (4:48:58 PM): lol that reminds me of something .. have i told you about that day i had to do an oral presentation on white supremacy
Andy (4:49:13 PM): People have been giving me shit about the way I look my entire life- lol nah you didn't, that sounds hilarious
Andy (4:49:29 PM): and it's only recently that I've learned to stand up to anyone, even if it means taking a beatdown
Mike (4:50:00 PM): well its was sort of a debate and i was kinda forced into the position to argue for it because i was absent the day ppl chose their positions
Andy (4:50:11 PM): ...Wow. lol
Mike (4:50:39 PM): so anyway .. i was high and lazy so i just printed diff shit from the internet not really caring about it and wrote a script
Andy (4:51:19 PM): I fucking hate group work and getting up in front of the class so much
Andy (4:51:29 PM): The next proffessor that tries to get me to do that, I'm gonna bitch him or her out
Mike (4:53:02 PM): one part was about the bible i forgot what part but one said this was supposed to serve this or something like .. obviously saying white man is superior .. and even though the teacher told everyone these ppl arent saying what they belive e in but they are debating and despite the fact that i dont believe in any superiorit of anyone over anyone .. dont belive in god where i would believe what the bible said or anything like that
Andy (4:53:10 PM): I bitched my English proffessor out
Andy (4:53:19 PM): He just pissed me the fuck off.
Andy (4:53:38 PM): So what happened?
Mike (4:54:45 PM): this black kid still got pissed where i said that .. he looked at me like he was goin  to beat me up because i said that .. i felt like getting up and making him feel stupid about not understanding the concept of debate and so on but i didnt because i didnt want to get kicked out
Mike (4:55:28 PM): so anyway .. he obviously believed the bible or whatever and was hurt
Mike (4:56:17 PM): the whole situation was shaky .. a white kid argueing for white supremacy
Mike (4:56:42 PM): i felt bad doing it because i wasnt allowed to sta5te my own opinion
Andy (4:56:57 PM): That is pretty damn fucked up.
Mike (4:57:52 PM): thus i felt bad coming to that class since that day because people didnt know what i really believed in and i sat there and thoughts kept rushing into my head like they think im racist or things like that even thought im totally against it
Mike (4:59:24 PM): and basically i cut that class to the point where i failed it lol ... thats what i fucking hate abut college .. all this stupid shit that could bring up variations of how you feel about the class ... im gonna hate being nervous everytime expecting some shit to come up where ill have to exclude my oiwn feelings to gain points for my fucking gpa .. its soo fuckign demeaning
Andy (5:00:06 PM): That is pretty fucked up. :/
Andy (5:00:31 PM): The shit with my English proffessor...he wasn't really trying to make me look bad or go against my belief
Andy (5:00:35 PM): *beliefs
Andy (5:00:47 PM): but he was like assigning people different roles for some kind of group shit
Andy (5:00:58 PM): and he told me I was a Middle Eastern prince
Mike (5:01:06 PM): its like this society shapes you where you kill something that means alot to gain something that doesnt mean shit outside the materialistic culture
Andy (5:01:06 PM): I looked at him for like a good minute to see if he was actually being serious
Andy (5:01:14 PM): cos I had already been in heated arguments with him by that point
Andy (5:01:19 PM): but then I realized he was being serious
Andy (5:01:50 PM): So I was like "What the fuck do I look like, fucking Hajji? This ain't fucking Johnny Quest"
Andy (5:02:09 PM): It was just some straight up racist shit.
Andy (5:02:22 PM): I got kicked out of the class
Mike (5:02:40 PM): damn
Andy (5:02:56 PM): I fucking hate college
Andy (5:02:59 PM): I know I need it, but goddamn
Andy (5:03:02 PM): there's just so much bullshit
Andy (5:03:09 PM): and the people there are so fucked up and shallow
Mike (5:03:09 PM): i bet it wasnt even that he was racist but he just wNted to be an asshole to you because of all the arguements before lol
Andy (5:03:39 PM): Maybe...but that;s still some petty fucked up shit
Mike (5:03:45 PM): yeah
Andy (5:03:52 PM): I just don't know what to do
Andy (5:04:13 PM): I feel like I don't belong there
Mike (5:04:33 PM): same here .. its basically that we have to change to soemthign we dont want to be .. otherwise we cant survive
Andy (5:04:52 PM): Everyone thinks they're on some intellectual-ass shit and they act like what they have to offer to the discussion is SOOOO fucking important and insightful
Andy (5:05:02 PM): even if it isn't
Mike (5:05:32 PM): yeah like i said and im not sure if you saw it .... its like this society shapes you where you kill something that means alot to gain something that doesnt mean shit outside the materialistic culture
Andy (5:05:34 PM): I'm starting to think that I would have been better off being born a Bedouin or something, maybe
Andy (5:05:50 PM): Nah, I saw...and I agree completely
Mike (5:06:02 PM): this time period jus isnt right
Andy (5:06:14 PM): You gotta change yourself on a fundamental level to not go against the grain of things.
Andy (5:06:49 PM): Do you have to do a lot of group work in your classes at LaGuardia?
Mike (5:07:31 PM): nope .. that was th eonly class and it was only for 1 day ... really depends on the professor .. its not like a set curriculum or anything
Andy (5:08:03 PM): I was getting group work out the ass in that English class
Andy (5:08:08 PM): God, I fucking hate people.
Mike (5:09:28 PM): i dunno if it may be better .. but if you went to laguardia and if we talked about the bullshit that happens or somethign liek that at the end of the day .. it may help the process of goin to college even by a little .. but i dunno ... im dreading my future years in college
Andy (5:09:46 PM): Yeah I'm thinking about it
Andy (5:09:51 PM): I don't really know though
Andy (5:09:56 PM): Music is the only thing I really care about
Mike (5:11:51 PM): yeah well .. i dont even know whats most important to me anymore
Andy (5:12:12 PM): but it's so hard to even pursue a career in music without changing yourself in some way
Andy (5:12:34 PM): if you want to cater to the lowest common denominator, at least, which is where they money is at
Andy (5:13:39 PM): *the
Andy (5:14:05 PM): Even musicians I used to think had integrity are starting to do that shit
Andy (5:14:08 PM): like Jesu
Andy (5:14:18 PM): Apparently david is a big fan of Jesu now...
Andy (5:14:35 PM): They sold the fuck out and basically became a heavy pop punk band.
Mike (5:14:46 PM): all these things are pretty good justifications to kill yourself ,,, i was thinking it too ... shit but it seems like im goin to have to go to college and get a job like everyone else as much as i hate it .. i just hope i can seperate and conserve the part of me which is as it is

Replies
GW Posted at 5:16 am on May 5, 2008
Student: "How can I become enlightened?"

Neem Karoli Baba: "Feed people by whichever means you can and I do not say feed them with bread only"

Reprinted with permission from "The Wisdom of the Hindu Gurus," edited by Timothy Freke, published by Godsfield Press. The book can be purchased online through Amazon.  

GW Posted at 12:33 am on May 5, 2008
Ah... you again sound like an old broken record stumbling on the complaining about the same old world...were you in your so called "high state" or just coming out of it? lol

I hear you on the "evil factors" of the world and I do not deny, nor I am ominous of the darkness of it all. I know of its nature, 'been there and have been experiencing it full speed- on and off, as you do. I just choose the light for and in myself, as for my life and in the world, wishing for others to come to the same. I do get somewhat frustrated though when they don't. But I am working on it, which unfortunately means -TO CARE LESS. It is so very hard for me, 'cause this greatly overshadows the light itself.

...Not in a single word of mine there is a link as to "we are the perfect creatures and can become as "absolute as individuals". And yet, Enlightenment is attainable still and so much better choice over darkness that spreads the hatred. But how one would know unless one goes for it, truly wishing to attain it...and definitely NOT through drugs. That is all what I was and am essentially saying.  Simply as it was (and hope is) worded by me, you must had been in that"high" state of yours, not to be able to see that in my previous reply.  

And you also took that reply as a Speech? Oh, boy! I am speechless.
I think I gave you so much more than that! But I guess your being "high" (more ON than OFF as it seems from more OFF than ON "quality" in your posts) doubts the possibility of you getting more out of what others and I had written here, but the speech.

Thus and in truth, you do not yet see the REAL Big Picture, let aside in perspective, as you think you do. And one would never get it from using this drug or that. So...whatever, man.

As for now, it looks like you enjoy yourself escaping into the "high" state more often than living life itself, while depleting in and both.

It looks like you are choosing misery of slowly dying while being alive, over living a happier life till you are actually dead.
Blaming all and everybody around for it, for the way it is but yourself, it looks like you are doing little to nothing to change it and have been making number of wrong choices. But in truth, as it comes то ме from contemplating on you- you do that to really excuse yourself as to excuse yourself in wanting less, thus trying less or in wanting everything but doing nothing.

It looks like you prefer to brag about how awful the world and humans are, while living in one and being one and no better as it seems. Add to it- choosing microscopic efforts in changing yourself, thus disabling the world to change around you, even in a small ways.  

I regret that your choices of expressing yourself in different ways come due to only make it "look like as IF your perspective evolves in a way".
...I guess, I untimely and wrongly chose to see otherwise.

Regardless of others and yes, at times feeling ashamed of and for them I always try to live a life in a way that would not bring me to feel the same about myself and of being a Human. And at this momentum of our crossing, I only feel me self wasted on your forum.
But it is good to hear you made a choice to become at peace with something as small as college, at least. And so be it, for now!  It is a step forward you chose to take and I respect you for that. As I said before, the choices are all yours to make!

Still, and as a given clue reaching back into the future, why don't you keep ALL what had been written here by your side for easy find. Read things over from time to time.
And let's just hope that some years from now it would make much more sense to you, become much more than a speech, open new doors rather than bring you to a lazy thoughts for a different but as lame interpretations and really help you in whichever ways you THEN would choose it to. Or at least, enlighten you in one way or the other. :)
Regards. GW
(your )

3ffigy Posted at 12:18 am on April 27, 2008
GW that was quite a speech, and i am sorry i could respond sooner, for in my high state i did not see the second page. I agree that in some ways I do contradict myself but in the context of my posts I could not see these contradictions (please point them out if you can). I may be young (18) and I accept and admit that I am ignorant and inexperienced but I doubt my "big picture" perspective is limited by my experience. Maybe I lack in vocabulary because even though i understand like you have said you are repeating things over in different words i still can't grasp what you are trying to tell me. Perhaps if you would word it easier. Humans are social creatures and there is no way that anyone could attain enlightment from being an absolute "individual". Your long text is open to multiple interpretations so i am not sure what to think. To assure you .. everything was written by myself even though my thoughts were influenced by certain things. I' am glad you noticed ... no one has ever really mentioned it but i do express myself in very different ways, as if my perspective evolves in a way. It has been awhile since my first post and I have made peace with going to college and some other things, but the darkness is inescapable.

It seems to me that you focus on the positive things. There are many things that we cannot deny, like the drastic change in our planet's health in the last 200 years because of us, as well as all the inhumanities that will never be stopped. You speak as if we are the perfect creature, all knowing and yet our despotic nature ALWAYS lead to self destruction. There are many other "dark" things we cannot deny and you can remain happy and self-ominous but those "evil" factors will always overwhelm the good ones for me, I cannot help it and I will remain ashamed to have been born a human being.

GW Posted at 8:59 pm on Mar. 11, 2008
No matter- first time...last time-that is not the point.
Harsh? How was that harsh? It was not meant to be.  And you (from your posts) do not project to be so touchy. Lol.  
I was not illustrating anything, but simply expressing my annoyed thoughts projected from what you had illustrated in your own posts that in fact, are quite confusing in contradictions to yourself through out. More over, while reading them, I could not escape but notice the dramatic change in your expressing yourself,making me think that some parts were not written by you but copied and you just find odd comfort putting it out. But, maybe I am wrong here. Maybe, that depends on whom you are talking too. Maybe, you are seeking help, asking for answers? Yet, I noticed that you are not really hearing and or responding adequately to what others are trying to tell you here and sound like and old record stuck. So, you're giving an attire of ignorance to my very short and general response to it all, is simply outlines your lack of understanding others in perspective that care just enough to share their thoughts in response to yours. That, further outlines your so marked confusion, the lack of desire and or ability to hear others wishing you well after all.
Now, that is harsh and I will continue on as harshly. So, bear with me if you can and forgive me by trusting to it coming from a good heart of mine and hopefully, for the better you...

...Being confused differs from being consumed by hatred, especially-on a daily basis. Confusion (mostly) derives from what surrounds us, what we surround ourselves with and or where we choose to put ourselves in.  I am not talking about childhood. There, we don't have much choice, little know and understand (thinking that we do) but choose not listen to those who truly care about us and love us, no matter how tough their love is or how wrong, you might think, their ways of loving us are. The point is that they do!

The hatred, on the other hand, always comes from within and only from within. Whatever life deals to each and all of us, we react to it from the core of whom we have not yet become and or who we already are. You will never find anything right nor good, holding onto a sword of hatred, no matter how small the part of whatever and or whomever you are seeking the attention from is in it. (My post is your lucky break).
Further, You will never be able to find Your Self from choosing and feeding the dark side within you, let along the rest of the world that is filled with beauty and light along the side of its darker tones. And there are plenty of beauty and light out there, but none will be visible to you-if none of it is within you. Please, don't snarl. I am not talking about religion here and or even God as per say. You are right- religion is a way of controlling... maybe some odd way of holding back the chaos, including human nature that is a chaos in itself creating chaos in what was meant to be good. Same goes for cultures, societies, etc. But YOU are not just that-the product of, or are you? As per you, so unfortunately born from and into human world; you, who are not yet evolved and truly defective still;... controlled... forced... deprived...bla-bla-bla, aren't you an individual as well? Shouldn't you become one? As one would be, YOU do not shine through and on the front lines of your posts. You are not there. You just project to and reflect from the outside that is inside you. World is full of everything for you to find in it. It is your choice what to take. Who you are that what you'll find and the world will not only give it to you but line up more and more doors for you to open to the same. If you choose to see chaos outside -there is chaos inside you. You start to reflect on it discovering even more chaos. And this circle is endless, unless you get out of it.

Don't you see that you are so much bigger and can be so much richer as an individual than the world itself? Don't you realize that the world is like a huge computer of information you can choose from for your own use? Don't you realize that you are born empty and the only thing that is given to you at birth is huge spiritual space where your soul (you) lives. Don't you see that YOU ARE the Master of Yourself and the REAL TRUE WORLD is within YOU? All you need is to choose and use the right information to find YOU! Then who and or what can bla-bla-bla THAT?  

What is your definition of being the Master of Yourself? Who else is? What is it YOU want? Whom do you want to become? Take it all-it is all there. But it will not fall to your Grace's feet by itself. You do have to make numerous efforts. Don't be lazy. Push yourself over and over and again. It does get easier when you really do. You start to want differently, love differently and live differently. Think about the efforts this way: When we eat we make an effort. When we dress we make an effort. Even when we shit we make an effort. Wiping our sorry asses after, is an effort too. Though some of us don't, but we put an effort to physically survive and be clean because we have to. And even though we have to, these sort of things still make us feel good and or better, don't they! So, why in a world, do we have a problem with giving bigger efforts to the many other bigger things that in turn, give us the same results, beats me.

Once again, the WORLD has everything for you to find. You just need to find the right stuff. And that what life is for and all about!
Oh man, you are just suckling in, projecting from, being part of, as well as being IT yourself. You are giving in while trying to repudiate what not need to be, but accepted, learned from, grown from fulfilled from and maybe then you can bring some changes into it. As they say: "Be the change you want to see in the world". If you do not use the world to advance your own-that is true ignorance! And to lose time doing it- is even more so!

You are probably still quite young and not as wise as you think you are. But that is OK. We are all forever young. It just some of us grow up and wise up a little faster to become better in many ways as to better our lives, but that is if that what we choose. The huge difference is in those choices we make and given all there is to in this world (and beyond), to make the right ones... (as well as the wrong ones).  So, the hope for more happy you is out there and alive and you should have some too.

I really wonder how old are you? Rather, how long have you LIVED in this world of ours? I think not long or not lived yet at all... just still stuck on some tiny twig of the smallest brunch of the Tree of Life.  I am young too, but monkey around leaping stronger and stronger, so do already understand that people who truly experienced at least some parts of THEMSELVES THROUGH LIFE, move further and further away from the hatred (if there was a presence of) , from blame while digging deeper and deeper into a simple wisdom that perception of the world and how one live in it does not really come from the world itself but rather from within oneself. I must say here again that in oneself, the YOU is so much bigger and can be so much richer than what you see as the "world" outside of yourself. Surely, your inner world might look at first as small and as dark as YOU at a moment of time, but there is an infinite GIVEN space for growth and filling it differently. So much more can be achieved within and given from when one wisely chooses and uses what is offered from the outside as simple aid to aid oneself. Question is if and how.

LIFE IS ABOUT CHOICES!

And when you do make the right choices you will see the difference within yourself. You will start to see YOU! And from that point on you'll start to become stronger and stronger. Your mind will become firmer till it hardens like a rock and will no longer shake in a world where everything seem to be shaky. It will become your greatest friend and suffering will not come your way any longer, because you will have YOU for yourself to feed in and live in. But the more you shake with, from and toward negativity itself, the more of it will come your way, free to multiply endlessly. And there would be no one to blame then but yourself.

If there were any object, any doctrine that could be given to you to hold on to or understand, it would reduce you to bewilderment and externalism. It is just that spiritual space within you, with nothing that can be grasped and it is pure everywhere. But you need to open it. And when you do, the "flickering candle light" of it clearly will penetrate outwardly and inwardly luminous through and through. And the road to Enlightenment will become clearer for you to see and walk on. The road to YOU! And when you get there it will be an Enlightenment, one can and must move toward and attain.

THAT WHAT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT!

Enlightenment...oh! That magnificent escape from anguish and inner emptiness...spiritual ignorance. With out your way to it your spiritual space can only be filled with hatred, darkness, nothingness. And you will slowly (or faster) wither out and die dead...even if you physically survive. But what will come after? That is the question. It is the same emptiness, the same darkness. We pass over with who we are and into who we are. And one need not God as a tool to realize this. It just is and you can find that out with numerous other tools available without yet dying, especially when it is not your turn to.

And as everything else, Enlightenment, as well as getting to the door of spiritual openness, never happens by accident. It results from the brave and sometimes lonely battle of one person against his own weaknesses, not the world's ones. And only the enlighten people could make real difference in the world of others.They just do things and yes sometimes painfully, be those things small and or big; for one and or for many-but they do it when it is time and don't when it is not, with an exception of our parents who rush things on us (at times as painfully), trying too hard to give us as much as they can because they know that sooner than later, we are going to say- f...ck off!

It seems you hardly look at yourself, moreover so within yourself while trying so hard to find whatever and whomever from the outside to blame and whine about, in order to avoid doing just that. And if you do, I am sure it still mostly aimed at the outside anyway. And that is a true denial of oneself and simply useless.

Why I also don't think you lived long enough, because otherwise you would come to only one profound understanding that we (as individuals) are ever changing, thus changing our ways of living and are not about conclusions, as life is not about making them. But one needs to live a life with an open mind, common sense and lighter heart to come to it, to have a life, instead of blaming it, running away from it or killing it all together as some cowards do (no matter which way they do it). But they do it due to their improperly filled (if at all) inner space and spiritual ignorance. No matter how smart or stupid, but cowards-they are!

So, whatever options you went over so far in your head (and I am certain they are just an options in your head) they can not be the right ones yet, thought through continuous inner effort, because your head is not clear (confused) as you stated yourself; your heart is not in the right place as it does not project and reflect any light and your foot is on the wrong side of the world that is the dark side you so vigorously project from and reflect on as well. I bet you wear dark clothes too. Khe-khe, I've been there, on the dark side that is. As most people had at some point of their lives that are able to think...feel...love...and cry. What matters, where they go from there!

Now, you again can say that I am being harsh and that I am! But with the good intentions though. I am trying to boot you of the "death bed" you are building YOURSELF for YOURSELF on shaky ground with the right foundations (I am sure given to you by your parents) buried, yet with walls rising so high above the world and yourself, that you will never be able to clearly see and accept both, while spitting on both trough the very visible holes, purposely left undone in just the right size to spit out, where no light will come through.

Now,  what will that do, ah? Where that will take you? What good of it will come your way, to your inner world and to the world in whole? Inner space-empty, spiritual ignorance present, just like at birth-that all it is. And that what gives all in the world and the world itself the darkness you are so high on.  

The world, in whole, we humans lived in yesterday, live today and will continue on to live tomorrow will never change and history is there to prove it. As well as history of numerous individuals who had changed the world for better or for worse, effecting it in whole, partially or just within themselves and around. But, and as individuals, they had choices in ways of doing it. As we all have. As well as YOU DO!

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS WHAT I DID. BE HARSHER ON YOURSELF and let the world just be WHILE YOU ARE DISCOVERING YOURSELF, WORKING ON YOURSELF AND MAKING WHO YOU WANT TO BE -THE INDIVIDUAL! AND THE ONLY TRUE WAY OF TRULY BECOMING ONE -IS THROUGH INNER INDEPENDENCE FROM THE WORLD, INNER-WORKINGS (on yourself), LEARNING TO CHOOSE AND USE THE BEST TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, FILLING IN AND ENRICHING YOURSELF WITH WHAT YOU, SURELY,  KNOW IS GOOD AND RIGHT-THUS, ABLING YOURSELF TO  REFLECT AND PROJECT THE SAME, WHILE LEARNING NOT ONLY TO TAKE, RECEIVE AND GIVE, BUT APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE OR HAD, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS OR WAS. IT IS ALL YOURS!

AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, YOU NEED TO REALIZE THAT IT IS YOUR JOB TO DO AND NEVER WAS ANYBODY ELSE'S. YOU COULD HAVE BEEN GUIDED, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN TOLD, SCREAMED AT AND ABOUT, AND EVEN MAYBE GET (as you may perceive)-"HURT" IN THE PROCESS, BUT IT WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE YOUR JOB-WHICH IS YOU!
Start by giving yourself a chance, many chances. Fall and rise again and again.  "What can not kill you, does make you stronger". Ye, ye, ye-you heard this one before. Nevertheless,  FIND YOU FOR YOURSELF, GIVE YOU TO YOURSELF , then GET A LIFE, LIVE IT and only then speak of the world. I assure you, you are not going to be spitting the poison adding to a poison, as you are thinking it; projecting it; reflecting it; being IT today! You will become kinder, more forgiving, more accepting. No matter how small the steps are but you must start walking, instead of sitting somewhere out there and slowly turning into a narrow mined killer of it all as you are already projecting to be some at this momentum of yourself that does not yet have You.

You'll see, when and if you turn inward and start for and from there, making wise choices (as I did), more and more right doors will line up for you; more of the right things will start  to fall into the right places and the world will kneel before you. And  in turn and after, all will start to give back to you the kindness, the beauty, the light and the love. And at times, when you might feel that something does not, so be it. There are so many of us and the outside world is, in truth, just one. But YOU will have more than enough of YOU -inner-independent, more fulfilled and more complete, to not even get slightly injured and being able to help injured, if you choose to. But moreover so, you will start to FEEL, USE AND HAVE THE TIME in the right ways. I promise! But who am i to promise, especially to YOU?

Oh, I know I am repeating this over and over in different ways, hoping it will sink in.
So, I'll repeat it all again in the way that was outlined by other INDIVIDUALS reaching out far from the past into the far future still, who are long gone and some are still with us. (You should look them up). This simple truth remains for us and will always remain for many of us in future, till we really dig it and become that truth ourselves.
THIS TRUTH (in the above said and bellow) IS WHAT LIFE IS FOR and ALL ABOUT! THAT WHAT YOU ARE FOR and ALL ABOUT!  NOTHING BUT YOU!  THAT IS WHAT THE WORLD IS FOR THE WAY IT WAS, IS AND WILL BE. NOBODY BUT YOU! NOBODY, BUT ME! NO BODY, BUT US! AND WE ARE HERE TO USE IT AND LIVE IT. THE WORLD is just the white noise to tune into. WE JUST NEED TO LEARN HOW TO. THE MORE WE GROW AS INDIVIDUALS , THE MORE WE FILL OURSELVES WITH THE LIGHT, THE MORE WE BECOME INNER-INDEPENDENT OF WHAT SURROUNDS US, THE FURTHER OUR INNER-SELVES EXTEND INTO THE UNIVERSE TILL WE DO DIG IT TOO.  THOUGH IT IS STILL WAY BEYOND OUR COMPREHENSION, WITH ITS OWN LAWS WE HAD NEVER WRITTEN (LET ALONG UNDERSTAND THEM) IT IS THERE FOR US -WHETHER WE LONG FOR IT OR NOT.  IT IS THERE FOR US TO SIMPLY EXPLORE OURSELVES THROUGH IT TOO, AS ARE HERE FOR US THE GIVEN LIFE, THE WHITE NOISE, THE YOU, THE ME, THE THEM-NO MATTER WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU, FOR YOU AND ABOUT WHO YOU ARE WHEN YOUR TIME COMES TO GO BEYOND IT ALL.  AND WHEN IT DOES-IT IS JUST YOU WITH YOURSELF.

So and on a softer note, give yourself the time for the confusion to clear out and it will. But don't just sit there spitting and whining. Let the light in and it will be there for you to bathe in and be guided by. Try to love at least yourself and Your Self, with the better sides of both worlds, will start to trickle within you and into your life. All you need to do is just want YOU! And with just that, play the life itself by gathering the WINNING cards from the WORLD, from WITHIN YOURSELF and FOR YOU, WHILE APPRECIATING IT ALL. IT IS REALLY THAT SIMPLE!

Now, WILL YOU play the game? The game of many chances, the game of endless choices, the game of ever changing you?  Have you not learned the drill of loosing and winning? Surely you had- that what you did all your childhood. So, why fear it? Why fear yourself?  Only stop being a kid playing kid's games with others and play the game of YOU with YOUR SELF! Or you are going to miss on all the REAL FUN! And it is fun, when you learn the simple rules, as any game would have. Without the rules established (as well as by yourself) and followed trough, there is no you, no game to play, but ever thickening darkness... emptiness...loneliness... chaos- inside out and reversed.

IT IS JUST YOU PLAYING YOURSELF.
SO, LIGHTEN UP!
LET the world be and in FOR YOU TO PLAY!
AND HAVE FUN, for nobody's sake, BUT YOURS!

(oof, me ignorant, but tired-I AM!)
Cheers.

3ffigy Posted at 9:43 pm on Feb. 18, 2008
GW, this is the first forum where I shared my "viewpoints" but you are right I' am seeking attention from the right kind of people which is also part of the hatred that consumes me everyday.
Sit around and whine is a pretty harsh and ignorant way of illustrating confusion.
We who live in this world define power with money, and without that it is very hard to change anything. You can never be the master of your own life in the world we live in today.. society conditions you to remain in the boundaries set by people with power. Culture which also has it's own limits, set by religion or authority, deprives one of independence.
We are forced to remain spectators, one person cannot change what the whole world has blindly accepted.
I have went over options over and over again, options to unite people with this perspective and options to take action even with  power, and all I have as a conclusion is that human kind is either not ready to evolve and reform or we are truly just defective. We are self-destructive selfish beings at our deepest core and the human world in history and present is proof of that.
Reason why I wrote born to the wrong time period, perhaps im more fit in the future. (If there is one)
GW Posted at 6:29 pm on Feb. 2, 2008
By the way, are there things you are optimistic about?
Would love to hear from u on that. :-)
GW Posted at 6:25 pm on Feb. 2, 2008
gee... it feels like u, Mike, seek the attention u missed for whatever reason. It seems that u prefer to sit around and whine. Why don't u take actions in building your future instead of seeing as bleak. Why be a spectator, when it is in your power to change things for yourself to the better? Why expect the world to change for u when it is u who is the master of it? <br> Get yourself a book called "Secret". Nothing will happen for u dude, unless u want it.
3ffigy Posted at 6:53 pm on Jan. 30, 2008
I appreciate your time and effort to respond Eudaimon.. your response makes very good sense but i guess im not a very optimistic person when it comes to these things ... its hard for me to remain a spectator, i see a very bleak future for myself .. and noone will ever know about the thoughts that run through my head or how i felt about them!
Eudaimon Posted at 8:30 pm on Jan. 5, 2008
I read your entire dialogue. Seems like you define yourself by your anger and resistance to things outside your immediate circle of concern, which means being trapped into a persistent state of discontent with everything around you and this seems to leave you unmotivated to change the things you can, that are within your power to change- most notably yourself. Although you may not be so powerful now, you can change that and really make a difference. Also, although there are things bigger than any one individual can handle, that doesn't mean they are they are all-powerful, indestructible stumbling blocks. It doesn't mean that collectively we can't create a snowball effect and change the world for the better. That's usually how any changes have ever taken place. Many of us are in the process of trying to do so and yes, work hard, but see the fruit of our labor and still enjoy life. Hey, we've come a long way from hitting eachother over the heads with clubs when we wanted something, or living in the same vermin infested clothes our entire lives working under a fat duke or prince born into money, station and social class. Just because you can't change everything bothering you about today's world and orchestrate it around your whim and fancy doesn't mean that living is meaningless and you should kill yourself. We are defined by our trials and hardships. They strengthen the mettle you're made of. You discover yourself through them, by proving what you are capable of doing with your mind and your heart and by directing your WILL to things beyond your base appetites and desires- to feed your belly or your head. Ever notice that the fun you experience when high isn't attached to anything? That's because it is not genuine- it's just the chemical talking, making you think and believe in experiences that have no real resonance outside your own solipsistic, egocentric world. It's a chemical illusion that manipulates the neurotransmitters in your brain- like serotonin- and creates feelings and emotions that have no basis in the real world. Even the friendships you enjoy on drugs aren't genuine. They fade to black, once the drug wears off and you have to deal with the mundane world- and friends turn out not to be friends at all. That's why when people join AA or NA and stop doing drugs or alcohol they have to change their entire circle of friends- its the drug that binds them to eachother. Drugs make strange bedfellows, which means it puts incompatible people together, who otherwise have little or nothing in common. Hey, there is a life out there and it is so awesome and its miracles are so mind-boggling and beautiful. Have you ever hiked through the woods and seen real animals in their habitat or scuba-dived and caught a ride on a manta-ray's tail or gone skiing on fresh-fallen snow? or surfing? or driven across a country? or stood on top of the statue of liberty with someone you loved? Or lit a fire on the beach and gone skinny-dipping at night? There are real highs that are attached to real life experiences that don't involve getting intoxicated and it is in those moments that you can't help but FEEL there is God and life is Good! The problem is that wiping the crud from your eyes requires your own will to do so (instead of sticking your face back into your pillow whining and complaining and justifying your own lackadaisical self-involvement in the negativity your own attitude breeds in your soul). Somewhere, I hope you discover a desire to love life itself, by living and doing, discovering and changing and by FAILING and TRYING again. Every human being deals with hardship and suffering on some level, (ever hear of the Vanderbilts? They used to own Staten Island. The heir to the Vanderbilt "throne" killed himself despite all his wealth and power. That was Anderson Cooper's brother by the way! Anderson Cooper turned to journalism and was quite successful at criticizing even the president at a time when no journalist would! What big difference did his brother make? ) Everyone suffers including monks, priests, CEOs, rock stars, and yes college students- its the nature of life. Just because it rains doesn't mean the sun won't come out. There's Yin in the Yang, and Yang in the Yin, white in the black, and balck in the white. There is good in the bad and bad in the good. Just because there is bad in the world, doesn't mean you can't grow from it, find your niche and do something good with your life- even if it means working in a society that is not perfect. It is still possible to feel happy about yourself and your life for the most part. True, it does require quite a bit of trial and error to find your way, quite a bit of searching... and FAILING. It is not easy. But hen, the greatest lives where not lived by blubbering about the human condition. Read Rudyard Kipling's poem "IF." Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Stop dreading every little speed bump in the road and learn to shift gears. For someone who supposedly knows about higher consciousness through psychoactive substances, even though that is "cheating," you sure don't act like your interested in doing anything but sticking your thumbs further up your backside. There are third world peasants that would be damned happy to go to your dinky college and do those assignments to better themselves, even if it meant dealing with some boring homeworks or uncomfortable class discussions. Get over yourself and take life by the balls instead of letting it crush yours. No one is stopping you, but if you CHOOSE to live ghetto, and think its cool to embrace it and celebrate it, well then don't complain about it smelling like shit. You can take the dog out of the street but not the street out of the dog. How much longer are you going to keep drinking water out of the toilet bowl? College is supposed to housebreak your ignorant ass by showing you that you don't know all there is to know, by giving you the chance to read books you'd never read on your own, engage in discussions you might never have had on your own, think thoughts you might never have thought on your own and give you an opportunity to voice your ideas and exercise your eloquence, both of which I'm sorry to say are lacking. Another book to check out is "ATLAS SHRUGGED" by Ayn Rand. Whether or not you agree with her "political orientation" it will give you something to chew on besides the stale ideas countless numbers of indolent, self-involved, unindustrious individuals have had throughout the ages simply because they were too complacent to even discover that they were not unique in their thinking and that their hardship and suffering is in fact quite common to the human condition. Learn by doing. Attitude is everything. Greatness defines itself by the individual's capacity to rise above and OVERCOME the circumstances that would otherwise dictate his or her own destiny. That requires thinking about the WAY you think ( is it getting you anywhere?) and asking difficult questions (about what you want to do to make a difference: "I want to help the environment" join NYPIRG, "I hate corporations taking advantage of consumers" become a consumer advocate), in other words set realistic goals and plan strategies to meet them. It doesn't hurt to try different things out so stop thinking so much about all the things you don't want to be and get adventurous and curious about what's out there. There is definitely something waiting for you, but it won't get discovered by itself. Besides, no one ever stormed a castle by complaining about how far away it was. <br> <br>
CellarDoor Posted at 2:32 pm on Jan. 3, 2008
But you do have choices, you're not completely powerless.  You may feel like that now because you're probably depressed or down (are you?).

If you choose to live the life of someone who works 40 hours a week for the next 40 years of his life, then that's your choice, you don't have to go through with it.  And it doesn't make you a failure.

I think the problem with society is that all these things which are difficult to attain and which are so difficult to be on top of -  such as jobs, mortgages, marriages, parenting - are taken for granted.  It's assumed that everyone will be able to do those things well if they put their minds to it, or that everyone will want to have those things in life.  If they don't, they are seen as freaks, weirdos.

Other countries are much more lenient towards these things.  In other, poorer, countries you'll find that people are much more happy and cheerful even though they have less money.  They have simple, good things such as a community spirit, a love of good food, festivals, sunshine and so on.

Seriously dude, if that's how you feel about life, you need to 1) come to terms with it gradually and heal
2) travel or move to a different country

And I know that US universities are different to UK ones.  Our honours degrees are 3 years, instead of 4.  I can imagine how I would have gone mad had I stayed on for another year because I didn't learn much.  In my second year I wanted to quit.

But there is life out there that is so much bigger than you and I.  There's a whole world out there man!  So explore it!  Try new things, experience things, escape to a dream world by reading new and weird books.

Keep going!

3ffigy Posted at 10:34 am on Jan. 3, 2008
I was Mike in the conversation ... your plays are very nicely written and your ideas on life are legit ... like I said, im afraid i will have to live the life i dont want to and even if i can find ways around the "prescribed route" it wont quell my anger towards others.. especially here in the USA people are so blind and arrogant and wont accept anything that could dampen their moods. They are ignorant and unaware, of course not everyone but most. For example .. i use public transportation almost everyday and I witness many situations .. sometimes its so fucking sad that i feel ashamed to be human or existing in the same area. The only other person i know that thinks in ways similar to this is "Andy" but he still gives off a shallow expression .. im not sure what else to say .. perhaps there isn't any option for life that would satisfy me .. guess i will just have to live with it
CellarDoor Posted at 9:52 am on Jan. 3, 2008
Britain truly sucks too in some respects - too many youngsters are encouraged to go to university. When they graduate they can't for the life of them find good jobs. Only the Oxford/Cambridge grads or those who studied soul-less subjects like Engineering or accounting get graduate-level jobs in blue-chip FTSE-100 companies.

House prices are sky-high, which means first-time buyers need to earn at least £30k to buy a studio flat or a 1 bedroom apartment in London. Many young people can never dream to get the kind of houses their parents have because the country is simply so overpopulated and everything is at the cut-throat level.

So they go abroad to poorer but more cheerful, sunny countries like Bulgaria and buy property - which forces the prices up, which means the local people can't afford houses anymore. So the locals come to Britain as migrant workers in the knowledge that they'll earn 2-3 times more than back in Bulgaria. This, in turn, drives the hourly wage of workers down. So, many of the native workers choose to not work at all and be on social security benefits because earning minimum wage doesn't pay all the bills, and so they go on social security... which condemns them to a life of poverty, but at least the basics are paid for.


But I intend to live on a houseboat so that I don't have to pay much rent and work so hard (apparently houseboat rent & bills are like £200 a month, as opposed to an apartment's £1100) , I want to live an alternative, freer life. I want to work part-time and write books and plays.  

I think there are always ways round things. You don't always have to do the prescribed route. Just, don't get into illegal business and everything should be alright.

CellarDoor Posted at 9:28 am on Jan. 3, 2008
So which of those viewpoints is yours?  Andy's or Mike's?

You, my friend, are thinking thoughts that almost every single human being (albeit, one who thinks and is aware) is thinking right now.  

I couldn't help but feel inspired by what you guys are discussing.  I've been thinking these thoughts myself.  

My advice is to you should express these thoughts in writing, in the form of poems and stories.

3ffigy Posted at 9:06 pm on Dec. 24, 2007
The foreshadowed outcome of conforming by society's standards depletes who we truly are. I mean it would basically mean living a lie. what do you do with those who reject and despise almost every standard that we live by today, who reject a materialistic, consumerist, mainstream culture where almost everything about it brings hate to the very nature of our being. Are we doomed to remain gullible and ignorant as well as promising to create relationships with those who promote attitudes of competition and self destructiveness ? To those who were born to the wrong time period and essentially have no escape from the hypnotic somnambulism of the consumer/user culture. Why can't we questions the assumptions of the establishment and to break through the indoctrination and conditioning that afflicts us...
Those that have been seduced into enjoying such a lifestyle or realize but accept it are only to remain shallow with your life unfulfilled. What are we to do .. the only options i can comprehend are rather indecisive .. suicide or to accept being a drone.
when thinking about suicide, id rather wait it out, even though life is short, the world can always change , something may happen were new options arise .. but then again if it doesn't it would mean that I lived a life of suffering and misery.
When thinking about accepting everything essentially disgusting around me, the fear of losing who I am and what i believe in rushes in, the fear of being OK with what i have accepted and how i would rather die than doing that. We are forced to be selfish and to have no other choice but to be oblivious to the illicit and inhumane actions around us, by those who have the same capabilities as everyone else no less.
Micus Posted at 4:01 pm on Dec. 24, 2007
We live in a capitalist society. If you don't earn money, you lose.

But aside from that, be as independent as you want. Do all the drugs you want, just make sure you have the money to back that up, along with bills, rent, food etc.

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