Most religions preach love.. care... tenderness.. responsibility... Yet those same people.... most... have no problem ripping their teeth into the flesh of previously....... tortured and inhumanely killed animals.
Honestly... do you guys find any kind of problem....mentally... with devouring meat from what i suspect you believe is gods creatures? What is the rationality on it?
Of course I would WANT everyone to give up meat. It would make changes in this world so great that many of us, including me, could not even begin to imagine on a personal level. For once, you'd see a large decrease in CO2.... Cows burping remarkably produces a lot of methane (Granted termites do as well, but that is naturally occuring) You'd also see the food prices go WAY DOWN as meat comes from animals which need to be fed-often from plants we eat as well... grain....corn... soy. If we did not have to feed the cows, you could feed the peopl with it-perhaps even people in need of food in third world countries.
And to answer your question, I call myself a Christian and I eat meat and no, I don't have a problem doing it.
Are you against eating all meat or just against eating meat that comes from processing plants? Make up your mind.
For myself, I would love to eat free range and organic meat. Actually, I would really love to eat nothing but kobe beef, where the steers spend their entire lives being massaged and drinking alcohol and being fed the finest foods, but there's a problem with all of the above: I am a poor person. I cannot usually afford even cheap steak, let alone free range or organic. I'm not going to stop eating bacon because I can't afford to buy things that would satisfy you, but when I am financially able to purchase more organic meats, I will be doing so...and continuing to be an omnivore, just as Jesus was.
Also, what PoP meant - "Do unto others" and "love thy neighbour" (to use the examples that you would be familiar with) refer to humans, not animals.
You should really watch out by the way, you might attract attention of People for the Ethical Treatment of Ellipses.
I don't eat meat and I'm not Christian.
So in simpler terms, your basically perfect :P
With all jokes aside....... you lifestyle is respectable :)
Point that my reasoning was sarcasm, as I don't appreciate vegetarians telling me I'm horribly immoral for enjoying bacon.
I dont recall telling you you are horribly immoral for eating bacon. I simply asked a question reguarding the moral implications people have knowing some of the meat they eat comes from places that treat the animals unjustly.
You like your veggies, that's fine, but it's not immoral for me to eat meat.
In all honesty, many of my veggies taste like soggy pieces of cardboard......
it's not immoral for me to eat meat. If you think it is, tell your broccoli; I don't really care.
The one remarkable and quite....... humorous thing here is how quickly you jump to insulting me..... mocking me.... and basically run to the defensive position because i simple ASKED a question.
To me it simply seems you are afraid to actually answer it.
You people keep attacking me or making semantical arguments on how every piece of meat is not tortured while refusing to acknowledge the general purpose of this thread-something only one person has done so far.
but people can love God and can be compassionate and still enjoy hamburgers.
But isnt there a bit of hypocrisy when someone declares to be "compassionate" and then consumes meat that was hit with a fork lift, tasered, beaten, branded, and caged??
Just because you dont personally DO it does not mean you are being compassionate by supporting it.
Granted I dont believe anyone here knowingly goes out and supports animal torture, but there is a certain level of ignorance-and in your case, accepted ignorance, that comes along with eating, as you said, bacon.....
Anyway, that love you (the OP) mention that religion is based on, is typically love for other human beings. That's certainly the case in Christianity. Jesus, by all rational accounts, was an omnivore.
True, but in Jesus' day they did not take animals, shove them in cages, hit them with fork lifts, shock them.. brand them.....
They generally treated the animals with some level of respect.
Also remember that Jesus was undocumented for 20 freakin years. You seem to have quite the ego to declare you KNOW he was an omnivore during those 20 years.
You make the blanket statement that the meat we eat comes from "tortured and inhumanely killed animals" and make your argument based on that premise. But you don't want that point debated? Without proper context, that is simply a false and misleading statement.
The point still stands whether or not I phrased my original post the way you like it- people eat meat from animals that are treated up to what the average person would consider kind and loving...... morals many religious people have.
(You still have not answered the question)
Define "tortured and inhumanely killed".
I don't understand how you dont understand what that means, but since I generally consider myself a somewhat nice guy Ill break it down for you.
Animals that, during a percentage of their life, go through unneeded pain on behalf of the consumer through human means, captivity, or any other act they would not experience in the wild.
Knee jerk term? I don't think so. Many people proudly accept that label. Militant: (2) Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant vegetarian. (ie. Someone who wants everyone to give up meat)
If you are going to label "militant vegetarian" as "Someone who wants everyone to give up meat" thn I do not even understand why you would have to ask.
On top of that, you'd have a much healthier generation of people.. youd save on healthcare... youd save the forests..... it is quite amazing the effects it could have. Even if people ate wild bison over factory farmed raised cows, it would be an improvement.
Understandably-that is not going to happen. I know that. And I'm not going to burst into your home with a revolver and force you to give up what you like. To an extend, I really dont even like to tell people what to do without firepower in my hands.
With that said, in addition to the general question (That.. by the way.. you still have not answered) I would HOPE some people come out of this topic with a little less ignorance trailing behind them and perhaps.... even try to make a slight difference in their daily lives... (If you cant, god forbid, give up meat...... buy it from local small organic farms) Id hope people step back from their aggressively taken positions towards me and vegetarians and look at the cause with an open mind.
Most people approach me which such respondents as if I am going to come to your house and take your freakin food. Im not.
The problem lies when people refuse to believe their is a problem and disreguard it instead of acknowledging their is a problm out there and WE fuel it.
I can say that our civilization hurts the environment. Our cars, whether globl warming is"real" are still pumping out a lot of fumes. It isnt good, but I dont believe everyone can give up cars.... though many can. However, Ill admit that i drive and I am part of the problem.
It would seem to me that you were assuming that everyone would accept your statement as 'complete truth' and therefore be at a disadvantage when attempting to justify what they eat.
Are you STILL going to deny that many animals grown in large factory farms are mistreated??
Do you want to have that argument??
If not.... stop contesting it. Because I honestly dont want to force the videos and pictures on people, but if you refuse to acknowledge there is a problem I kind of have to-dont I?
Believe it or not, the semantics of your argument define how much credence should be assigned to that argument. That some places may not have the best conditions for the animals is not part of the argument you made in the OP. Faulty 'facts' used to make your 'case' only tend to open holes in it.
The fact still resides that you are basing your entire approach on the fact that I did not include the word "many" in my original post. So let me clear it up and remake the question to take out any fallacies/loopholes/misconceptions.
MANY LARGE FACTORY FARMS IN WHICH RESTARAUNT CHAINS GET THIR FOOD FROM TREAT ANIMALS POORLY. IF YOU EAT A LOT FROM RESTARAUNTS THAT BUY FOOD FROM FACTORY FARMS (SCHOOL LUNCHES, FST FOOD.....) YOU ARE LIKELY EATING THAT MEAT. WITH THAT SAID, WHAT ARE THE MORAL IMPLICATIONS INVOLVED KNOWING THAT, AND HOW DOES THE MORALS IN YOUR FAITH INTERTWINE WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE.
If this new question is not up to par with your requests.. im sorry. I tried.. and I understand my OP was not very specific. But I cleared it up-so drop the ridiculous, semantics-oriented argument.
And for the last time-if you want to debate whether animals are treated poorly-make your own freakin topic and I will GLADLY debate you on the subject. Otherwise, stop cluttering my topic with the same useless prattle.
animals were made to eat
In scientifically terms, we are regarded as animals as well.
Was grandma and daddy "made" to be eaten??
You were attempting to think to know what I know. Im not here for the crowd to guess my mental awareness. If you want to answer the question, go ahead. Otherwise, please leave the topic. This is NOT a topic to debate whether animals are treated bad. If you want that argument, click the button and make your own topic. This topic is to discuss the religious implications involved in eating meats that are generally treated badly. Not ALL is, and I understand. Generally speaking, organic meats from small, local farms are treated better. But I doubt everyone has eaten every piece of meat from a small local farm, so, thus, this topic is here.
This topic is to discuss the religious implications involved in eating meats that are generally treated badly. Not ALL is, and I understand. Generally speaking, organic meats from small, local farms are treated better. But I doubt everyone has eaten every piece of meat from a small local farm, so, thus, this topic is here.
A "militant vegetarian" I dont walk around with an m16 willing to give my life up to my cause. Until you define that knee'jerk term I really cant answer it.
I was assuming that the intelligent youth here had enough intelligence to connect the small dots in my post. Apparently SOME can't.
Everything else you mentioned seems to be semantics. I didnt use the word "many" Your argument seems to be that not EVERY place mistreats animals, thus, i have no case. There are places that mistreat animals. In fact, most of the fast food you eat does.
So for those who do not eat every ounce of meat from locally grown farmers, the Original question still stands.
If you are going to direct your question towards religious people you should base your argument upon religious scripture, not vague conjecture and emotional appeals.
Where's the rationality in that?
Some people believe that animals are less than humans because they believe animals don't have souls. Yes, but does that give us the moral reasoning to give them immense pain during a large portion of their lives? Some people believe that since God has given man dominion over the earth, it's man's right to do what he will with the animals on the earth. It could be argued that "god" gave the white man superiority over the black man (Actually, that was the argument for the south). That does not mean that white people are better than blacks now-does it? Some people believe that meat is necessary for a healthy diet and, therefore, thank God for giving us animals who, when killed, have a tendency to turn into meat. Well, see, that is a blind belief then. It has been studied and many studies show meat eaters.. specially red meat eaters, to have the worse lifespan and most health complications. Vegetarians and fish eaters tend to have the best. Im not saying fish isnt meat-im just saying the study finds those results. And then there are people like me, who firmly believe that if God didn't want us to eat bacon and steak, chicken and lamb, He wouldn't have made them so tasty. There are many who claim rape feels sooo good but are you REALLY going to say that if god made rape feel good he wants us all to rape all his little bundles of female joy??
Some people believe that animals are less than humans because they believe animals don't have souls.
Yes, but does that give us the moral reasoning to give them immense pain during a large portion of their lives?
Some people believe that since God has given man dominion over the earth, it's man's right to do what he will with the animals on the earth.
It could be argued that "god" gave the white man superiority over the black man (Actually, that was the argument for the south). That does not mean that white people are better than blacks now-does it?
Some people believe that meat is necessary for a healthy diet and, therefore, thank God for giving us animals who, when killed, have a tendency to turn into meat.
Well, see, that is a blind belief then. It has been studied and many studies show meat eaters.. specially red meat eaters, to have the worse lifespan and most health complications. Vegetarians and fish eaters tend to have the best.
Im not saying fish isnt meat-im just saying the study finds those results.
And then there are people like me, who firmly believe that if God didn't want us to eat bacon and steak, chicken and lamb, He wouldn't have made them so tasty.
There are many who claim rape feels sooo good but are you REALLY going to say that if god made rape feel good he wants us all to rape all his little bundles of female joy??
Point that my reasoning was sarcasm, as I don't appreciate vegetarians telling me I'm horribly immoral for enjoying bacon. You like your veggies, that's fine, but it's not immoral for me to eat meat. If you think it is, tell your broccoli; I don't really care.
As to the other reasoning, I was simply throwing that out there so you know that your argument isn't the only logical one. I know it's hard to accept, but people can love God and can be compassionate and still enjoy hamburgers.
So my thoughts 'dictate' what you 'know'?
You were attempting to think to know what I know. Im not here for the crowd to guess my mental awareness. If you want to answer the question, go ahead. Otherwise, please leave the topic. This is NOT a topic to debate whether animals are treated bad. If you want that argument, click the button and make your own topic.
Would I be wrong to think that you are a militant vegetarian?
Your OP didn't say "many" places mistreat animals, in fact, you didn't say "many" or "mistreat" at all. You said the meat we eat is from "tortured and inhumanely killed animals". Make up your mind.
As mentioned in my most, most religions preach love, responsibility, kindness, and other "moral" values. Im again, asking people who have those values in their religion to answer the question.
But I do believe in instinct. It's in animals instinct to eat each other, it's in our instinct to eat animals.
That is a fair answer if you get your meet by hunting wild Buffalo in the plains of Africa. Most people here, I'd imagine, dont get their meat this way. If that is your justification for EATING meat-fine. Makes sense. Our teeth are designed for the consumption of flesh.
But what are the moral consequences on the way many places RAISE these animals. I can show countless videos here showing how many places treat their animals. That also includes the 180 MILLION pound beef recall where the workers were hitting cows with fork lifts and tasering them to get them to stand up so that they were legally allowed to be slaughtered.
I don't actually eat alot of meat, I think the only thing I do eat is chicken now and again. But I do hate animal cruelty. Basically the only way I feel like I can help animal cruelty is by looking after the animals around me.
Fair... but what is your rationality in consuming meat that often tends to be mistreated?
BTW bless ya for caring for animals near you. It is SOMETHING.
Im personally NOT religious, but im just curious. Most religions preach love.. care... tenderness.. responsibility... Yet those same people.... most... have no problem ripping their teeth into the flesh of previously....... tortured and inhumanely killed animals. Honestly... do you guys find any kind of problem....mentally... with devouring meat from what i suspect you believe is gods creatures? What is the rationality on it?
I don't believe in God. But I do believe in instinct. It's in animals instinct to eat each other, it's in our instinct to eat animals. I am Wiccan, yet alot, if not most Wiccan's are actually vegetarians. I have no problem with that, but it isn't for me. I don't actually eat alot of meat, I think the only thing I do eat is chicken now and again. But I do hate animal cruelty. Basically the only way I feel like I can help animal cruelty is by looking after the animals around me.
What is the rationality on it?
they're tasty
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