Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic Thoughts from an Agnostic Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]TNAwrestlingfan[/m] at 10:19 am on Dec. 30, 2008[quote]I hate when people ask "who created the universe?" as a rebuttal to atheism/agnosticism. Do you want to know my answer to that question? I don't know why we are here. I have no idea. It makes no sense to me. I wasn't there to see anything. That is why I am agnostic. Just because I haven't seen something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes... that even goes for invisible pink unicorns. I seriously doubt there are any running around outside, but I most certainly can't prove there are none. But, I'm not going to start worshiping and fearing them until I feel that they have given me a reason to. It's the same thing with deities. I say that religion is bullshit. I'm not claiming to have any sort of deep, profound understanding of our origins. I don't care what you believe about where we come from. What I DO know, however, is what I see and what I do not see. If you want to believe we were created by a supernatural higher power, fine and dandy. But why does all this other stuff have to come with it? Thinking that homosexuality is bad, or you shouldn't work on certain days, or you shouldn't get tattoos, or that praying makes any difference in the world, there is nothing to back that up. If you believe in a creator, you have no reason to believe he/she/it has anything against gay people. All you have to go on is the Bible or whatever your particular religion has, and I don't see how you can follow it so blindly without questioning it in the slightest. Your book isn't the only one out there. What makes it the most valid? People who believe the Bible think it's the word of God because it says it is. Does anyone see a flaw in that logic? So I am agnostic. I am not religious. I don't know where we came from, but I have no reason to believe that my actions have any consequences except secular ones. I have no reason to believe in an afterlife. I will put no faith in something that I have no reason to even believe exists. It seems a bit ridiculous to think that there is any sort of supernatural force out there watching over me and taking care of me, therefore I won't be praying to one. I don't look for hope or strength from the supernatural. I find it myself in things I can actually sense... see, hear, and feel. I turn to music and friends, things that make me feel good and inspire me. So really... next time you encounter an atheist or agnostic, don't bother asking where the universe came from. When we ask you where God came from, you just say he was always there. Well does that really make any more sense than if we just said that the universe was always here? No, not really. A lot of religious people seem to have trouble wrapping their minds around different belief systems. Hopefully this helped you understand us a little better even though I can't really speak for all atheists/agnostics. I'll be glad to answer any questions about my beliefs.[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post TNAwrestlingfan Posted at 10:19 am on Dec. 30, 2008 I hate when people ask "who created the universe?" as a rebuttal to atheism/agnosticism. Do you want to know my answer to that question? I don't know why we are here. I have no idea. It makes no sense to me. I wasn't there to see anything. That is why I am agnostic. Just because I haven't seen something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yes... that even goes for invisible pink unicorns. I seriously doubt there are any running around outside, but I most certainly can't prove there are none. But, I'm not going to start worshiping and fearing them until I feel that they have given me a reason to. It's the same thing with deities. I say that religion is bullshit. I'm not claiming to have any sort of deep, profound understanding of our origins. I don't care what you believe about where we come from. What I DO know, however, is what I see and what I do not see. If you want to believe we were created by a supernatural higher power, fine and dandy. But why does all this other stuff have to come with it? Thinking that homosexuality is bad, or you shouldn't work on certain days, or you shouldn't get tattoos, or that praying makes any difference in the world, there is nothing to back that up. If you believe in a creator, you have no reason to believe he/she/it has anything against gay people. All you have to go on is the Bible or whatever your particular religion has, and I don't see how you can follow it so blindly without questioning it in the slightest. Your book isn't the only one out there. What makes it the most valid? People who believe the Bible think it's the word of God because it says it is. Does anyone see a flaw in that logic? So I am agnostic. I am not religious. I don't know where we came from, but I have no reason to believe that my actions have any consequences except secular ones. I have no reason to believe in an afterlife. I will put no faith in something that I have no reason to even believe exists. It seems a bit ridiculous to think that there is any sort of supernatural force out there watching over me and taking care of me, therefore I won't be praying to one. I don't look for hope or strength from the supernatural. I find it myself in things I can actually sense... see, hear, and feel. I turn to music and friends, things that make me feel good and inspire me. So really... next time you encounter an atheist or agnostic, don't bother asking where the universe came from. When we ask you where God came from, you just say he was always there. Well does that really make any more sense than if we just said that the universe was always here? No, not really. A lot of religious people seem to have trouble wrapping their minds around different belief systems. Hopefully this helped you understand us a little better even though I can't really speak for all atheists/agnostics. I'll be glad to answer any questions about my beliefs.

Replies obvious child Posted at 7:11 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from TNAwrestlingfan at 8:36 am on Dec. 30, 2008 What the fuck... didn't LW used to have a few smart people? lol. Smart people? Livewire? You are sorely confused. obvious child Posted at 7:09 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from In Our Eyes at 8:21 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Right, there was nothing, and then for no reason there was a big bang from nowhere and everything was made for no reason out of nothing. Got it. =-) Not everyone is impatient, immature and childish as you are. Not knowing does not equate to God. But thanks for playing and showing your belief is based on the God of the Gaps argument. Microwaves are why God exists since I can't explain how they work! chelseamorgan Posted at 4:20 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 You are my soul brother. Shogun villimax Posted at 4:10 pm on Jan. 2, 2009 Quote: from Shaknbake at 8:50 am on Dec. 31, 2008 Quote: from Shogun villimax at 4:32 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 The "Other stuff" Is importent!    You woulden't expect a manufacturer to give you something without an Instrution manual,    Why should the creator of the univers be any diferent? The point being that the Cosmological Argument (which is, more or less, what the OP is rebutting) does NOT suggest the 'other stuff.' "Where did the universe come from" may lead to "We don't know - perhaps it always existed" or "We don't know - perhaps it was created." It does NOT suggest "We don't know, but maybe the specific deity of this one barbarian Semitic culture did it and also killed his son/self on a stick just to save you from the punishment he created you to deserve." Actualy he created us to choose if we wanted to deserve that or not. Shaknbake Posted at 8:50 am on Dec. 31, 2008 Quote: from Shogun villimax at 4:32 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 The "Other stuff" Is importent! You woulden't expect a manufacturer to give you something without an Instrution manual, Why should the creator of the univers be any diferent? The point being that the Cosmological Argument (which is, more or less, what the OP is rebutting) does NOT suggest the 'other stuff.' "Where did the universe come from" may lead to "We don't know - perhaps it always existed" or "We don't know - perhaps it was created." It does NOT suggest "We don't know, but maybe the specific deity of this one barbarian Semitic culture did it and also killed his son/self on a stick just to save you from the punishment he created you to deserve." TNAwrestlingfan Posted at 8:34 am on Dec. 31, 2008 Quote: from Shogun villimax at 4:32 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 The "Other stuff" Is importent! You woulden't expect a manufacturer to give you something without an Instrution manual, Why should the creator of the univers be any diferent? Yeah... because that's totally the same thing. Shogun villimax Posted at 4:32 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 The "Other stuff" Is importent! You woulden't expect a manufacturer to give you something without an Instrution manual, Why should the creator of the univers be any diferent? airemaye Posted at 1:16 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 I find that some people have misconceptions about what exactly being agnostic means. You can be an agnostic theist, which means that you believe in a higher power, but you also believe that there's no way of knowing for sure that that higher power exists. And you can be an agnostic atheist, which means that you believe that there's no higher power, but you also believe that there's no way of knowing for sure that no higher power exists. Basically, agnosticism is a broader philosophy than lots of people give it credit to be. TNAwrestlingfan Posted at 10:48 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from amber1991 at 10:42 am on Dec. 30, 2008 I'm going to add my 2 cents. Anyway I've also questioned why God is the only God and why other religions aren't right, okay right isn't the right word. More like why the Christianity God is real. Christianity is right because this is the only "living" God. The other Gods in buddhism and etc. are fake. They're dead, they're not real. You think the Christian god is real... because all the others are fake? That's it? Did I miss something? SpM Posted at 10:47 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from amber1991 at 6:42 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 Christianity is right because this is the only "living" God. The other Gods in buddhism and etc. are fake. They're dead, they're not real. You do realise that your argument is nothing more than "I'm right because I'm right, and all those other gods are fake because I say so"? amber1991 Posted at 10:42 am on Dec. 30, 2008 I'm going to add my 2 cents. Anyway I've also questioned why God is the only God and why other religions aren't right, okay right isn't the right word. More like why the Christianity God is real. Christianity is right because this is the only "living" God. The other Gods in buddhism and etc. are fake. They're dead, they're not real. As for the christians being against homosexuality and the "working on certain days" thing, I have nothing against homosexuality, abortion (though I do think it's wrong, for me anyway), piercing,tattoos, and anything else you can think of. Not all christians are closed-minded. I most certainly am not. I respect agnostics and atheists for their beliefs. I don't go and try to prove them wrong. Okay, I'm done... Frubeling Posted at 10:41 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from TNAwrestlingfan at 6:36 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 What the fuck... didn't LW used to have a few smart people? O hai? TNAwrestlingfan Posted at 10:36 am on Dec. 30, 2008 What the fuck... didn't LW used to have a few smart people? sosupkthnx Posted at 10:31 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from Frubeling at 10:28 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from sosupkthnx at 6:26 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from Frubeling at 10:23 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from In Our Eyes at 6:21 pm on Dec. 30, 2008 Right, there was nothing, and then for no reason there was a big bang from nowhere and everything was made for no reason out of nothing. Got it. =-) He never mentioned any of that, or did I misread it?    loludumb? lolureadthatforreal? It took my interest, so yes. Do you actually read books that last more than a page? Logic please As long as it is a picture book then yes.  Look I rock out with my glock out. TNAwrestlingfan Posted at 10:30 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Quote: from In Our Eyes at 10:21 am on Dec. 30, 2008 Right, there was nothing, and then for no reason there was a big bang from nowhere and everything was made for no reason out of nothing. Got it. =-) I guess you think it makes more sense to say an all-powerful deity was floating around one day and got bored, so he decided to create a universe full of terrible, horrible things like death, murder, natural disasters, poverty, starvation, Criss Angel, hop-hop, cold toilet seats, diseases, pain, suffering, etc. And he decided to put us here, knowing full well that Eve would eat that stupid apple and put this wonderful curse on us. But he allowed all this to happen, apparently just for the lulz. Then he decides that he's going to go into hiding and never do anything to let anyone know that he's still around except leave us a book full of contradictions and all out absurdities and expect us to follow it blindly. Yeah, what was I thinking? You make way more sense. Most recent 15 of 28 previous replies displayed.