Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic The Catholic Church Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]Descartes[/m] at 8:30 pm on July 3, 2009[quote]Religion is man's way of putting god in a fucking box.[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post InsaneBlue Posted at 8:26 pm on July 3, 2009 I'm sorry if this is somewhat incoherent. I just happened to have my divine inspiration at 11:15 I guess. The Catholic Church kills faith. I've spoken to several people on LW and I've experienced it myself. The Catholic Church kills faith. Catholic children are raised on a pulpit of doctrine. A priest stands in front of them every Sunday and says "you must do this, you must do that." The whole denomination reeks of authoritarianism. After a while, after one grows up a bit, they realize "this is dumb, none of this applies to the modern world" and they throw out their faith in the Catholic Church and along with it they throw out their faith in God. I was thirteen when I had my break. By then I was already kind of catching on, but I was still just going with the flow. It was my Confirmation that ironically knocked the faith right out of me. For sixteen weeks, every Sunday, I was stuck in a room in a church with about twenty other kids. A bunch of them never paid a shred of attention, one always provocatively cut an apple with a pocket-knife, and some even slept openly. Bottom line: about two thirds of us didn't want to be there. And that is how I first realized the extent to which the Church goes to indoctrinate people. More than half of the people who get confirmed do it unwillingly. Wow, what a joke. So I went on my way.   A year or so later I found God, for the first time really. And my relationship with him or her or it is a wholly personal one that relies on no book, no priest. There is nothing about this God that suggests he's 'a joke' or 'a scam' or a spiritual dictator. He's just God, and that's the way God should be. So to all those alienated by the dogma of some religion: does your dislike of some Earthly institution equate to a dislike or disbelief in the very concept of God? Don't let it. If you really hate/disbelieve in God, so be it. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't shun God when you shun your Church. They are not one in the same.

Replies InsaneBlue Posted at 7:17 am on July 5, 2009 I rejected the rigid doctrine of the Catholic Church because I felt there was no wiggle room for pretty much anything and an overemphasis on priestly power, and that was all after I had all ready left the church. But like I've been trying to say, that wasn't supposed to be the point of this topic. TheOtherHorseman Posted at 9:53 pm on July 4, 2009 "I REJECT THE RIGID DOCTRINE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BECAUSE... i um... maybe believe this... okay i am just being nice maybe that is god okay?" InsaneBlue Posted at 2:33 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 2:29 pm on July 4, 2009 You are certain enough in your position to live your life in accordance with it. It has nothing to do with living my life. It's just an abstract, possible explanation for the nature of our conscience. It doesn't change how I use mine. SpM Posted at 2:29 pm on July 4, 2009 You are certain enough in your position to live your life in accordance with it. InsaneBlue Posted at 2:22 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 2:16 pm on July 4, 2009 If you're right, and the issue is an important one, I'd have thought you'd feel morally obligated to persuade people to come around to your point of view. If I knew as a solid fact that I am right, than that would be true. But it's not fact. I make liberal use of "I believe" and "I think" for a reason. I never stated my opinion on conscience as fact. I even included a disclaimer. SpM Posted at 2:16 pm on July 4, 2009 If you're right, and the issue is an important one, I'd have thought you'd feel morally obligated to persuade people to come around to your point of view. InsaneBlue Posted at 2:10 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 2:01 pm on July 4, 2009 You take a feature of the human psyche that is near universal (psychopaths seem to be denied this divine privilege from birth for some reason) and proclaim that it is the gift of your culture's god? Does it not strike you as rather arrogant to proclaim that billions upon billions of humans, past and present, were utterly wrong about the source of their own morality? That's one of the things I try hard to avoid. I believe that there is a god. I believe that Christianity best captures the nature of this god, but I do not insist upon that. If there's one thing I don't do it's forcing my beliefs on people. SpM Posted at 2:01 pm on July 4, 2009 You take a feature of the human psyche that is near universal (psychopaths seem to be denied this divine privilege from birth for some reason) and proclaim that it is the gift of your culture's god? Does it not strike you as rather arrogant to proclaim that billions upon billions of humans, past and present, were utterly wrong about the source of their own morality? InsaneBlue Posted at 1:38 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 1:27 pm on July 4, 2009 Speaking as a life-long atheist, I can assure you that the desire to be nice to people is the result of an agreeable temperament and a good upbringing. I'm sure you're aware of this already, unless you were a marauding serial killer up until you found God a year ago. I really do hate getting into philosophical debates, since no one can prove anyone right or wrong. I will throw out my opinion though, not trying to argue yours, just stating mine. I think people are born good, I think they're born with the desire to help people and do as, I believe, God would want them to. But sometimes that gets clouded. And that actually leads into my biggest problem with the concept of God but that's for another discussion. SpM Posted at 1:27 pm on July 4, 2009 Speaking as a life-long atheist, I can assure you that the desire to be nice to people is the result of an agreeable temperament and a good upbringing. I'm sure you're aware of this already, unless you were a marauding serial killer up until you found God a year ago. InsaneBlue Posted at 1:11 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 1:07 pm on July 4, 2009 You actually hear His voice in your head? No. Don't worry, I understand that would be a tad worrisome. It's more of a conscience thing, and it points in the same general direction as the teachings of Jesus. Like I said, we all have our human sense of right and wrong. Some people ignore it for money, power, etc. I choose not to (of course we're all sinners so I do slip up [and repent]) and I use that as my direction. SpM Posted at 1:07 pm on July 4, 2009 You actually hear His voice in your head? InsaneBlue Posted at 1:05 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 1:00 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from InsaneBlue at 8:55 pm on July 4, 2009 I have shunned the Catholic church. I have not shunned Christianity. I've read much of the bible, but I take it all with a grain of salt and rely more on the innate connection to God that every human has and the sense of right and wrong that He bestowed upon me. How do you experience this "innate connection"? What makes you think it is of divine origin? How does it relate to the Bible? Now we approach the unexplainable. I have faith that it is of divine origin. And if it's not, if it's just one of those tricks that the mind likes to play on itself, it has me do things that God would be proud of by anyone's definition of him, so either way it can be considered divine, in inspiration if not in origin. I'm not sure what you mean by asking me to relate it to the Bible. In the Bible, God speaks with people quite frequently. SpM Posted at 1:00 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from InsaneBlue at 8:55 pm on July 4, 2009 I have shunned the Catholic church. I have not shunned Christianity. I've read much of the bible, but I take it all with a grain of salt and rely more on the innate connection to God that every human has and the sense of right and wrong that He bestowed upon me. How do you experience this "innate connection"? What makes you think it is of divine origin? How does it relate to the Bible? InsaneBlue Posted at 12:55 pm on July 4, 2009 Quote: from SpM at 12:50 pm on July 4, 2009 What is the nature of your relationship with God now that you have shunned theology and religious texts? I have shunned the Catholic church. I have not shunned Christianity. I've read much of the bible, but I take it all with a grain of salt and rely more on the innate connection to God that every human has and the sense of right and wrong that He bestowed upon me. Most recent 15 of 31 previous replies displayed.