For instance, if you toss a coin 100 times and pray for heads every single time, he will answer your prayers approximately 50% of the time, the rest of the time he obviously answered with a "no".
This God is indistinguishable from "no God", according to any scientific or statistical test known to man.
Once people define God, as the mainstream religions like Christianity have done, he is open to rational scientific investigation. People say prayer works, and the Bible is very clear that prayer works, to the effect that anything prayed for sincerely will be given. This is simply and demonstrably not so, and every believer knows it full well - yet they rationalize.
It is so easy to test prayer that scientists have actually done it, and those prayed for fare just as well, or badly, as those not prayed for. Prayer simply does not work.
It doesn't work because there is no one listening.
At least no one willing to intervene with the unimportant lives of us insignificant humans.
My belief on that is God gives you the strength to answer your own prayer. God can't tamper with nature for every person, and most the time it's through some pain that we learn what happiness is. I still believe in God but I don't expect him to answer my prayers, I can do that myself.
God can't tamper with nature for every person, and most the time it's through some pain that we learn what happiness is.
I still believe in God but I don't expect him to answer my prayers, I can do that myself.
That's all well and good for you, but for orphans in India, and the mentally ill in Russia, they are lucky if they live. Simply saying it's "for a reason" or that he will help when he can (and if he is as powerful and omnipotent as he claims to be, he most certainly can) is a pretty shitty excuse. If a human saw a child being raped repeatedly, and did nothing to help, we would say they are just as guilty for not stopping it. Why does God get a free card?
Quote: from King Kong at 3:09 am on May 14, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 10:55 pm on May 13, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 6:24 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 2:22 pm on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas. No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying Muslims believe in God. Does that make them Christian? What other "messiahs" do you believe in? There's not been other messiahs. They've been prophets. Mohamed for example. Don't see why I shouldn't believe they existed. Just because they are prophets from other faiths does not mean I'd not listen to their wisdom. Wisdom comes from many places. Not going to ignore it if it comes from a religion I don't believe in. Edit: Bahá'u'lláh claimed to be a messiah. Don't know much about him though The Jews however is still waiting Okay, so bottom line: 1. You believe Jesus to be the Son of God, and the only true Messiah. 2. The rest are only prophets, and while you can appreciate their message, you don't hold them on the same level as Jesus?
Quote: from Specter at 10:55 pm on May 13, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 6:24 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 2:22 pm on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas. No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying Muslims believe in God. Does that make them Christian? What other "messiahs" do you believe in? There's not been other messiahs. They've been prophets. Mohamed for example. Don't see why I shouldn't believe they existed. Just because they are prophets from other faiths does not mean I'd not listen to their wisdom. Wisdom comes from many places. Not going to ignore it if it comes from a religion I don't believe in. Edit: Bahá'u'lláh claimed to be a messiah. Don't know much about him though The Jews however is still waiting
Quote: from King Kong at 6:24 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 2:22 pm on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas. No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying Muslims believe in God. Does that make them Christian? What other "messiahs" do you believe in?
Quote: from Waddiwasi at 2:22 pm on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas. No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying
Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas.
Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know
Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you?
Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings?
Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous.
Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous.
How many fucking times.
1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings?
So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky?
Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth.
Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you?
I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings.
Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know
So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas.
No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God.
But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying
Muslims believe in God. Does that make them Christian? What other "messiahs" do you believe in?
There's not been other messiahs. They've been prophets. Mohamed for example. Don't see why I shouldn't believe they existed.
Just because they are prophets from other faiths does not mean I'd not listen to their wisdom. Wisdom comes from many places. Not going to ignore it if it comes from a religion I don't believe in.
Edit: Bahá'u'lláh claimed to be a messiah. Don't know much about him though
The Jews however is still waiting
Okay, so bottom line: 1. You believe Jesus to be the Son of God, and the only true Messiah. 2. The rest are only prophets, and while you can appreciate their message, you don't hold them on the same level as Jesus?
I'm just not aware of other Messiah claimants. In Islam Mohamed recognised as a prophet not a Messiah.
So yes, for now I will believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
The Jews of course are still waiting.
Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:30 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:43 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 4:24 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:59 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 7:12 am on May 10, 2012 My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen. This. Sure, good things happen to me and I credit God as well as myself, but I prayed wicked hard, day and night, not to get fired, and...welp...got fired. It isn't a miracle cure. What percentage of the time would you say god answers your prayers? I don't know, I ain't good at math. But he does it a lot. Proportionately the same percentage of the time those things would happen naturally? Do you pray about things that would probably happen anyway? I can't know what's gonna happen. That's why I pray for a good outcome.
Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:43 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 4:24 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:59 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 7:12 am on May 10, 2012 My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen. This. Sure, good things happen to me and I credit God as well as myself, but I prayed wicked hard, day and night, not to get fired, and...welp...got fired. It isn't a miracle cure. What percentage of the time would you say god answers your prayers? I don't know, I ain't good at math. But he does it a lot. Proportionately the same percentage of the time those things would happen naturally? Do you pray about things that would probably happen anyway?
Quote: from Waddiwasi at 4:24 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:59 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 7:12 am on May 10, 2012 My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen. This. Sure, good things happen to me and I credit God as well as myself, but I prayed wicked hard, day and night, not to get fired, and...welp...got fired. It isn't a miracle cure. What percentage of the time would you say god answers your prayers? I don't know, I ain't good at math. But he does it a lot.
Quote: from Cosmo Brown at 4:59 pm on May 10, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 7:12 am on May 10, 2012 My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen. This. Sure, good things happen to me and I credit God as well as myself, but I prayed wicked hard, day and night, not to get fired, and...welp...got fired. It isn't a miracle cure. What percentage of the time would you say god answers your prayers?
Quote: from King Kong at 7:12 am on May 10, 2012 My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen. This. Sure, good things happen to me and I credit God as well as myself, but I prayed wicked hard, day and night, not to get fired, and...welp...got fired. It isn't a miracle cure.
My point about God not being a genie is simple. Don't pray and expect as if by magic for things to happen.
What percentage of the time would you say god answers your prayers?
Proportionately the same percentage of the time those things would happen naturally? Do you pray about things that would probably happen anyway?
That doesn't answer the question. Do you pray about things that are likely to happen anyway? For example, you study hard for a test and are doing well in the class, but you pray for a little extra luck? Or do you pray for more unlikely things, like if you're averaging a C and you pray for an A in the class.
And what percentage of the time do your prayers get answered? Has god ever done answered an unlikely prayer? Has anything ever happened in your life that can only be explained by divine intervention?
Time to play the victim card because you can't back up your beliefs.
Good god. You are stupid.
I've made it clear many times what my beliefs are. You're just not listening
I am now simply asking you questions, to see why you are so against religion.
Quote: from King Kong at 9:24 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 2:22 pm on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 4:19 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from Specter at 5:15 am on May 11, 2012 Quote: from King Kong at 10:52 am on May 10, 2012 Quote: from Waddiwasi at 6:48 pm on May 10, 2012 Yes it matters. Because you are basing your life and your judgements on the teachings of a man who claims to be divine. And the entire Old Testament only underscores how terrible god is. Also, why are you so adamantly a Christian when you deny most of the shit in the Bible ever happened? It's fucking ridiculous. How many fucking times. 1. biblical literalism is a 500 year old concept 2. Many of the stories can be based on truth, but they were spread via oral tradition long before someone had the idea of writing them down. 3. Some of the stories are meant to be metaphors. Like the parables of Jesus. 4. What's wrong with following his teachings? So, do you believe Jesus literally was conceived via virgin birth, literally was the son of God sent to earth to die for everyone's (well, at least the ones who believe his story) sins, and literally died and re-awoke 3 days later to ascend into the sky? Appreciating somethings historical significance and positive messages is one thing. I can appreciate the teachings of Krishna, but that doesn't mean I believe in the myth of his virgin birth. Do you believe Jesus was sent by God to cleanse the believers of their sins, or don't you? I'm not sure about my beliefs about the virgin birth. Don't think that's important to follow his teachings. Yes, I believe he was sent by God, but again not important to follow his teachings. There is Christian atheism you know So basically you aren't a Christian at all, you just think Jesus had some good ideas. No, I'm a Christian. I believe in God. But all that's not really important to follow his teachings. that's all I'm saying You believe in god yet you don't really believe that god did anything the Bible says he did? And you may or may not believe Jesus was born of a virgin, or did any of his supposed miracles? What's the point in believing in god at all? And you can find better idols than Jesus anyway.
You believe in god yet you don't really believe that god did anything the Bible says he did? And you may or may not believe Jesus was born of a virgin, or did any of his supposed miracles? What's the point in believing in god at all? And you can find better idols than Jesus anyway.
Why shouldn't I believe in God?
I didn't say I don't believe in anything the God did in the bible. I just said that Biblical literalism is stupid. It's about the deeper meaning.
I didn't say I don't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, I said it is unimportant how he was born. It's about the man he was in life that's important.
I choose my idols and you can choose yours. Let's leave it at that. I want to follow a man who talked about love and peace. A man who was willing to die for us. You can choose your own idol. I don't see how my choice in following a religion effects you in any way. Does me following Jesus hurt you in anyway. Does my belief in God hurt you in any way?
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