Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic Would you say it's immoral Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]kidd rune[/m] at 5:13 pm on May 26, 2012[quote]Quote: from [mod]barnabas[/mod] at 8:11 pm on May 26, 2012[quote]obviously I'm going to argue this from a christian standpoint, but yes I think selfishness is immoral. [/quote]So if it is known that two people are genetically incompatible and there are loads of other people to choose from, it would be immoral for them to ignore this and continue on with the likelihood that their child will be less healthy and less adapted to the world?[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post kidd rune Posted at 4:42 pm on May 26, 2012 to put one's own personal desired before the healthiness and social status of your future child? What I mean is, would you find it immoral if someone has a child with someone else (for example a brother and sister) knowing that such a combination would probably cause the child to have health issues and be basically condemned to a generally less vigorous life? Of course it's not a 100% chance but it raises the odds considerably. Or should things like that not matter if the man and woman are 'in love'? Is their wants and desires more important than the child's health?

Replies SpM Posted at 7:25 pm on May 26, 2012 there is a difference between a particular potential child and a mass of potential children jostling for gamete status. no particular child is hurt by dysgenic breeding; it's simply that a child of worse than average health is selected from among the jostling multitude. no harm, no foul. kidd rune Posted at 7:08 pm on May 26, 2012 I haven't danced forth at all. I never spoke of a specific, unique child, but a child as in a potential child in this situation. I figured it was obvious by what I said but you're still making the mistake after I clarified - the former circumstance. SpM Posted at 6:56 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from kidd rune at 2:31 am on May 27, 2012 The way you're looking at it is from a flawed perspective. Instead of looking at it from a specific child with only one possible genetic makeup being created, look at it from the perspective of any potential child from these individual adults.   Choosing someone that would cause a less-desirable genetic makeup for a potential child would essentially mean one is choosing to bring someone less healthy and adapted to the world compared to bringing someone that is as well off as they could have done (the nature of this moral belief would include any action that harms the child such as malnutrition). you dance back and forth between these conceptions of the situation as suits your argument: first, we have an anonymous sea of potential to be considered in a purely utilitarian light, and then we have comparisons to the harming of the child, the specific, living child. pick your battle, one or the other: they are to be condemned on utilitarian grounds, or they are to be condemned for harming a child. the latter is what i am contesting, on the grounds that the child born is not harmed (its life being worth living and its health in no way made worse by the act of conception), and the children unborn are not wronged (there being no moral obligation to bring the unborn into being). kidd rune Posted at 6:38 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from ChemicEmotions at 9:32 pm on May 26, 2012 Would it be immoral if I had a child with somebody with bipolarism, knowing that I also have the same mental disorder? It's not necessarily genetic. Personally I don't think it's immoral. I don't think having kids with a fucked up retard would be immoral at all. I personally wouldn't answer the OP question with "Yes". Is it selfish? Maybe, if there's reason to believe that it will cause your child to be bipolar. ChemicEmotions Posted at 6:32 pm on May 26, 2012 Would it be immoral if I had a child with somebody with bipolarism, knowing that I also have the same mental disorder? kidd rune Posted at 6:31 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from SpM at 9:12 pm on May 26, 2012 it would be selfish to harm a child's health under those circumstances, but no child's health has been harmed. the child plucked from the numberless ranks of the unborn might be less healthy than most of its siblings, but its own health does not deteriorate for coming into this world. The way you're looking at it is from a flawed perspective. Instead of looking at it from a specific child with only one possible genetic makeup being created, look at it from the perspective of any potential child from these individual adults. Choosing someone that would cause a less-desirable genetic makeup for a potential child would essentially mean one is choosing to bring someone less healthy and adapted to the world compared to bringing someone that is as well off as they could have done (the nature of this moral belief would include any action that harms the child such as malnutrition). SpM Posted at 6:12 pm on May 26, 2012 it would be selfish to harm a child's health under those circumstances, but no child's health has been harmed. the child plucked from the numberless ranks of the unborn might be less healthy than most of its siblings, but its own health does not deteriorate for coming into this world. kidd rune Posted at 6:07 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from the raven at 8:49 pm on May 26, 2012 and the purpose of this thread shows itself trying to paint OTHER people as racists Who exactly did I say was "Racist" in here? I didn't even mention the word at all. Quit putting words in my mouth. I just wonder if people think it's morally wrong to mix races because it's inherently selfish. kidd rune Posted at 6:06 pm on May 26, 2012 So you agree that it is selfish, by definition, to put one's one personal desires [which you agree includes choosing a mate] over someone else's personal welfare [which you agree includes their health]. It's quite simply in this case a tradeoff of the parent's wants over the child's health. You admit that by definition this is selfishness. So how is selfishness not immoral? SpM Posted at 6:01 pm on May 26, 2012 if you plan to forgo substantive posts in favour of attempting to lead me by the nose down a path of non-sequiturs (which might be more generously characterised as "points") to your little heffalump trap, i will forgo the conversation. but, to be a good sport about it, take your three yesses and proceed. kidd rune Posted at 5:51 pm on May 26, 2012 Yes or no SpM - is the definition of selfish 'putting one's own personal desires, interests, benefits, and welfare over that of other's'?? (Check dictionary.com) Yes or no SpM - is choosing who to mate with a personal desire? Yes or no SpM - is a person's health related to their personal welfare? barnabas Posted at 5:50 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from the raven at 8:49 pm on May 26, 2012 and the purpose of this thread shows itself trying to paint OTHER people as racists i was willing to play along to find out. i lol'ed. the raven Posted at 5:49 pm on May 26, 2012 and the purpose of this thread shows itself trying to paint OTHER people as racists SpM Posted at 5:44 pm on May 26, 2012 Quote: from kidd rune at 1:24 am on May 27, 2012 The child doesn't have a choice at all. The parents put their own personal desires over the health of the child, no child has a choice in this instance. when it comes to this particular hypothetical child, their genetic health is their genetic health. the parents have made it no better and no worse by realising the hypothetical. they might be criticised on utilitarian grounds if we assume that a less healthy child is less happy or less conducive to happiness in others, but the child itself is unharmed. Define: Reasonable the metrics of a life worth living are not conducive to off-hand summary. suffice it to say that a smudged and speculative line can be drawn somewhere. kidd rune Posted at 5:43 pm on May 26, 2012 So you would personally find it immoral to have an interracial child because of the facts shown in these threads: http://golivewire.com/forums/peer-eonyepy-support-a.html http://golivewire.com/forums/peer-eonytba-support-a.html Most recent 15 of 29 previous replies displayed.