Punished with a baby? Why is it that Democrats can't deal with their mistakes?
They want to abort their babies. They want the government to to help them get housing. They want the government to give them money because they don't get jobs. They want the government to give them health care.
Why is it that people don't want to take care of themselves anymore? Why can no one deal with the consequences of their actions anymore?
The point of this discussion though is why should the rich have to pay such a higher rate than the poor. Punishing success in a capitalist country doesn't make sense.
so rich ppl dont have a proportional advantage over poor ppl. its more exponential, the more they have the more they can make more. and if they play the system the way they want they can hide away a LOT of money from taxes anyway. ask the ppl from the tax companies
they can tell you theres thousand of ways to escape paying much tax when you rich, when you working poor (not totally poor but low income) you just fucked. if you work more you get taxed way more relative to what you have left to live with. thats why some fucks dont work on purpose so they can have it both ways. they get more benefits, pay less taxes etc...
If I were rich I would definitely give to charities rather than the government where I could.
At least at a charity you know where your money is going. God only knows what will happen to your money if the government takes it.
depending on the tax you may have MORE control over how your money is spend than even with charities.
I do believe in taxes but once again why should the rich pay higher rates than the poor.
Try a community college.
In any branch of the military you can go in under a contract specifically outlining what you want to do. You can work on a aircraft carrier, you can be a cook, there's hundreds if not thousands of jobs in the military that keep you far from the front lines and out of danger.
What I meant to imply was that if you don't work hard to better yourself society shouldn't be taking care of you.
I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps she should look into a new line of work. That hard work is not going to be lost going to a new job. When you see someone trying hard for fifteen years and working their way up to management on a resume that will go a long ways.
we are 3 kids and im still 2 years away from graduating high school. I kinda hope I get some scholarship or do a combo of the options we talked about.
I applaud her in making an effort to learn English though. See just that little thing right there. That makes her value go up.
I wish you luck. If you try hard enough something will come along.
Quote: from neodymie at 12:20 pm on Sep. 6, 2008 Quote: from lsd at 9:47 am on Sep. 6, 2008 Quote: from jasnIZbad at 3:36 pm on Sep. 3, 2008 obama passed an abortion law where it is ok to give birth to your baby prematurely, and give it no medical attention, therefor killing the baby Could you please post a link? I read about this before, possibly on this forum. What it was is he votes against a bill that would protect babies that were accidentally delivered during an abortion. Basically if an abortion was messed up and the babie was delivered they could kill the baby because they were going to kill it anyway. Take it for what you will. I think it's disgusting. I like how the guy arguing for him basically says he doesn't know about it. Wow, how would they kill the baby (I can't watch the video right now)?
Quote: from lsd at 9:47 am on Sep. 6, 2008 Quote: from jasnIZbad at 3:36 pm on Sep. 3, 2008 obama passed an abortion law where it is ok to give birth to your baby prematurely, and give it no medical attention, therefor killing the baby Could you please post a link? I read about this before, possibly on this forum. What it was is he votes against a bill that would protect babies that were accidentally delivered during an abortion. Basically if an abortion was messed up and the babie was delivered they could kill the baby because they were going to kill it anyway. Take it for what you will. I think it's disgusting. I like how the guy arguing for him basically says he doesn't know about it.
Quote: from jasnIZbad at 3:36 pm on Sep. 3, 2008 obama passed an abortion law where it is ok to give birth to your baby prematurely, and give it no medical attention, therefor killing the baby Could you please post a link? I read about this before, possibly on this forum.
obama passed an abortion law where it is ok to give birth to your baby prematurely, and give it no medical attention, therefor killing the baby
Could you please post a link? I read about this before, possibly on this forum.
What it was is he votes against a bill that would protect babies that were accidentally delivered during an abortion.
Basically if an abortion was messed up and the babie was delivered they could kill the baby because they were going to kill it anyway.
Take it for what you will. I think it's disgusting.
I like how the guy arguing for him basically says he doesn't know about it.
Wow, how would they kill the baby (I can't watch the video right now)?
They'd just let it sit and die.
Woman's choice.
The question is why.
Why should she just got to shrug off her mistake like it never happened? It's not like that in other areas. It's easy to go kill a living human being because you don't want the responsibility but its near impossible to get out of a parking ticket.
so you saying rich ppl never benefit anything from the community around? they never attend public school? they never took bus and public transport? it all came from their rich parents? then they were not "self-made" either.
What I'm saying is that poor people dont have the right to a rich persons money because they helped them get there. They have already been paid for there services. It shouldn't be required that they be paid again.
Of course they benefited from their environment. They may have gone to public school. I mean they drive on the roads every day. I'm not against taxes all together or anything, they're very important. The point of this discussion though is why should the rich have to pay such a higher rate than the poor. Punishing success in a capitalist country doesn't make sense.
sure because they get tax breaks for that
I'm sure that has something to do with it but not entirely. If I were rich I would definitely give to charities rather than the government where I could. At least at a charity you know where your money is going. God only knows what will happen to your money if the government takes it.
well men shouldn't be forced to register for the service. and poor ppl shouldn't be forced to give away their money either and we shouldn't be forced to pay for a war we dont want and fuck there's a lot of things ppl shouldn't be forced to do. but we don't live in an island. we depend on each other ad we need each other.
Yeah you're right. This has strayed pretty far from the original topic. I do believe in taxes but once again why should the rich pay higher rates than the poor.
no I would give to ppl who need it most not to serve my own little pet projects or ideology. i'd try to anyway.
Exactly, you'd try. At some point you might put your money where it would suit yourself too. There's nothing wrong with that.
sure but you make it sound like it just falls from the sky and anybody can grab it. first you got to compete real hard for it. then the money dont go real far these days because even in a state univ (that gets money from taxes btw) the tuition is really high.
It's true there is a lot of competition for scholarships and grants out there but we go back to my earlier point. Hard work will pay off. Some people are lucky, they're born into families that can pay for their college. The world isn't always fair, but you always have a chance.
Try a community college. The tuition is much lower than a university. This semester I paid $1000 dollars for tuition and books. I know that's a lot but it is doable.
if you dont have crdit an collateral and property? good luck.
You may have a harder time finding it but I'm sure you can.
yeah i know with the way things go i prolly will just endup dead in iraq before I can ever get into college.
I don't think you understand the vastness of the military. Your not necessarily just going to get shipped off to Iraq and put on the front lines. In any branch of the military you can go in under a contract specifically outlining what you want to do. You can work on a aircraft carrier, you can be a cook, there's hundreds if not thousands of jobs in the military that keep you far from the front lines and out of danger.
sure but that doesn't mean they less valuable. their work is just as important and needed as anyone who tries to participate in society. i dont say they shoul be PAID the same as a doctor. but dont tell me you can just spit on them just because they not paid a lot
You don't get what I'm saying. By no means am I saying we should just write of toilet cleaners. What I meant to imply was that if you don't work hard to better yourself society shouldn't be taking care of you. There's a lot of legitimate hard working people in this world that just can't seem to get a head in life. I can understand that. I can't understand why we give money to drug addicts, gang bangers, dropouts and just all around lazy people.
my mom worked at it 15 years. she's a team manager but some other dude who just came in got the same pay as she does.
with 12 hours per day workload she can barely just rest and spends the rest of time learning more english.
I'm sorry to hear that. I applaud her in making an effort to learn English though. See just that little thing right there. That makes her value go up.
I am the one who has to try to get into college if i can. I have no clue if i can ever have the money for it because who knows what tuition is like by then. most likely i'll be working at the same time as going to school. but yeah im thinking of the military too. depending on how things turn out and what grades I get too anyway...
well sure that happens. but theres also a lot of injustice out there too and sometime hard working ppl get shafted. alot of them do. its not to say we should all bury our head and sit on our ass and give up. but its to say the rich are not automatically
I agree with you it happens. The world is by no means fair.
but hey there are leeches at the top and at the bottom of the scale.
Absolutely
Unless in the case of public schooling.
A lot of rich people are very charitable.
The fact still remains that they shouldn't be forced to give up their money.
Wouldn't you donate to something in your best interests?
Do you know how much financial aid is out there for things like this? Scholarships, grants.
You know how easy it is to get a student loan?
If that all fails, join the military. Serve your country and they'll put you through college.
Supply and demand applies exactly the same here. As the supply of uneducated toilet cleaners in this country goes down the price of that service will go up.
If you work hard at maybe one day you can be a manger.
At this point maybe they'd be able to afford to go to school.
There's a lot of employers that will say hey, this is a great guy and he works very hard I would much rather put him through school and hire him to be a framer rather than higher some random guy off of the street.
On the other hand I think it's wrong that we hand well fare and social security checks off to drug addicts and high school drop outs that have no ambition in there lives and dont wanna work to improve themselves.
because everyone else supported them to where they are? they wouldn't be rich if there was not ppl working for measley pay for them and the education they got and all the ppl along the way that helped them get there directly or not. they did not get rich all by themselves. I know alot of ppl talk about "self-made" man but a lot of ppl helped that amn no matter how you slice it.
so the tax thing is a way to give back to the community and the country. thats why a lot of rich ppl get away from taxes by giving to charity.
A lot of rich people are very charitable. The fact still remains that they shouldn't be forced to give up their money.
its good things of course but the problem with charity is that sometimes ppl just give to charity that obeys what they want and leave others out.
You choose a lot of ppl cant AFFORD to go to college, they can't just "choose" that.
Do you know how much financial aid is out there for things like this? Scholarships, grants. You know how easy it is to get a student loan? If that all fails, join the military. Serve your country and they'll put you through college.
It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor. without someone to clan the place up the doctor will have a lot of sick ppl dying.
and alot of ppl clean toilets not because they did not "choose" to go to college. a lot of ppl are immigrants and start from scratch amnd work hard at whatver they can and they do. you can't spit on thier face just because they dd not get to be doctors. everybody's work is valuable. its not as fancy or pay as much as ppl think but its still valuable.
College is not the only way to improve you value. If you start at a job cleaning toilets and work hard at it. You may be moved up to cleaning the cubicals of an office building. If you that really well you can be promoted to something like the leading the cleaning team at an office building. If you work hard at maybe one day you can be a manger. At this point maybe they'd be able to afford to go to school.
I'm not spitting on the face of the little people.
and some doctors are pretty shitty. a good plumber is more valuable to society than a bad doctor or a crooked banker.
sure. but not as much as doctors. and they not as rich as paris hilton right?
Going to a trade school to be a framer is in no way the same as attending a University and then going to a graduate school. We've already established that some people are lucky.
some people start at the bottom because they com from other countries already poor and they didn't have a chance to go to college or trade scholl and have to support their family anyway. not everyone who is at the bottom of the barrel is there by choice or because they are lazy or worthless.
Like I said before. Starting at the bottom doesn't mean you can't work your way up. There are a lot of opportunities out there you just have to work hard to reach them.
There are a lot of employers that will train a good person for a better job. Say you get a job cleaning up trash on a construction site. You work very hard at it and do the best you can. There's a lot of employers that will say hey, this is a great guy and he works very hard I would much rather put him through school and hire him to be a framer rather than higher some random guy off of the street.
Once again why should the rich have to support others?
You choose
It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor.
People like framers, roofers, etc. are very intelligent people and most attend trade schools before they are even considered for a job. Therefor they are paid relatively well.
ask those who do and they'll tell you. how do they decide on rising prices of gas and food and rent? they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl" so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit. meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans. yeah thats how they "work"
they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl"
so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit.
meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans.
yeah thats how they "work"
Do you understand how the free market works? Say a company makes a toilet. This toilet costs them $20 to make and they sell it for $100 for a $80 profit. Well that's fine for a little but soon another guy says hey, I can make that toilet for $20 dollars. I'll just sell it at $90 dollars and steal all their competition.
Then the first will try to undercut them. and so on until the prices are low. Businesses make money on volume not price of their product.
It's illegal to get together and say ok we'll all charge the same for the same toilet and split business.
oh yeah thats right we measure ppl by how muh money they got.
oh yeah thats right we measure ppl by how muh money they got. The more money the more "valuable". sorry I was thinking like a christian for a minute. forgot to think like a capitalis.
No, there's a difference between someones value and how much money they have. Paris Hilton for instance, she has a lot of money but a very low value.
Think about it this way. Would you pay someone the same salary a doctor makes to clean toilets?
nope we don't.
my parenst are divorced.
well that explains a lot.
becaus they're rich and they should pay what they owe?
Yeah there'd be MORE tax money in the coffer for everyobdy else.
you think ppl who work in the fields and in the docks and in constrcution and clean the toilets a NOT valuable?
Ok look. Your drive and your education gives you value. You choose to go to college your worth goes up. You drop out of high school your value goes down. Simple as that. It's a decision people make. It's pretty obvious that someone who cleans toilets for a living is worth less say a doctor.
On a side note my whole family is in the construction industry. People like framers, roofers, etc. are very intelligent people and most attend trade schools before they are even considered for a job. Therefor they are paid relatively well.
What Paris hilton does thats valuable to society?
You're very right. Some people are really lucky. Some people catch a brake or ride others success and it can be annoying to see but it's just a fact of life.
Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:55 pm on Sep. 6, 2008 Really? You've sat in on these meetings? . ask those who do and they'll tell you. how do they decide on rising prices of gas and food and rent? they have a meeting and say "hey we need to make more money so we look good with the stock ppl" so how they do that? they raise prices and raise the rent and raise the cost of things. and then they put up ads so ppl fall into the trap and buy their shit. meanwhile they make the material crappy and send the jobs to india and vietnam so they dont have to create jobs for americans. yeah thats how they "work"
Really? You've sat in on these meetings? .
I don't have to ask. I have sat in on some of those meetings.
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