Unfortunately you said they found no human remains. So, if the report said they found human remains, what are you basing your claim that human were not found on?
Five samples or five sample areas? There's a difference.
Qualitative vs quantitative. Finding POSSIBLE human remains in 2% and giving no photographic evidence does not count as proving that one single mass grave exists for 600,000 bodies.
If you didn't know ANYTHING about the holocaust and someone showed you DRAWINGS with only 5 claimed samples of "human remains" found out of over 200 would you think that it is evidence of a MASS GRAVE?
So let me get this straight, you now admit there were human remains when previously you claimed the "excavation" ie., soil samples, had previously found none?
The report that said they found human remains. The paragraph actually said some of the skulls had "tufts of hair attached"; so that should answer your question.
Doesn't it seem more likely that it was a few people buried due to unpreventable deaths from disease and that's why there are so few remains? Isn't that a more likely conclusion?
I don't need to when you make the incredible and demonstrably incorrect claim that there were no human remains and mass graves etc found at a transit station that operated for around 16 months before the Nazis dismantled the camp, buried much of it under topsoil, planted firs and later replaced it with farmland.
My mistake, there were only FIVE positive cases of human remains found, which accounts for two percent, not 2 total. Human remains are present in 3 samples in "grave" ten, 2 in "grave" 3 and 1 in 20. See below:
The excavation by Andrzej Kola, unsurprisingly, doesn't show any human remains.
Many animals have hair and bones. Where is the evidence that these were actually from humans?
Even if you find some evidence of human bodies they are not "Mass graves" and further do no justice to the laughable 600 thousand figure.
You post photos but do not post any link to them. Is there a time stamp on these photos showing when and where they were taken? If not, you'll have to provide a link confirming the facts you allege regarding the photos. I'll also ignore that turning the extermination camps into farmland was a last resort after locals began sifting through the former camp for valuables to take.
And it was done to stop locals from sifting through valuables? Well what exactly is menacing about that? How does it prove that they were extermination camps?
Two? Pray tell, from whom did you read this claim? Just link the author; I'll be happy to provide the rebuttal that there were more than two grave areas found.
One must also stress the fact that there are no photos and only drawings of the alleged samples which seriously calls their validity and accuracy into question.
I don't understand why massive quantities of human remains aren't being found as apparently 600 thousand people were killed at Belzec. Even if you find some evidence of human bodies they are not "Mass graves" and further do no justice to the laughable 600 thousand figure. Some people may have died and got buried at Belzec but a "Mass grave" is not just any grave, but one that is completely massive. Kola found no evidence of such although he claims he did, sad.
Really? Because his report claims otherwise. So, if his findings say he found human bone and hair then where are you getting the claim he never found human remains?
"Human remains" would constitute complete corpses or large parts thereof, which Kola didn't actually find
His report can claim anything it wants to. Why were there only DRAWINGS and no photos of the core samples? Where are the massive quantities of human remains?
Grave pit No. 1: Located in north-western part of the camp. Dimensions of the grave was determined as 40 m x 12 m and over 4.80 m deep, filled with bodies in wax-fat transformation, and a mixture of burnt human bones and charcoal. Beneath this deep strata lay a several-centimetres-thick layer of foul-smelling water beneath which were found unburnt corpses compressed by the weight of soil to a layer 20 cm thick. The drill core brought to the surface putrid pieces of human remains, including pieces of skull with skin and tufts of hair attached, and unidentifiable lumps of greyish, fatty, human tissue. The bottom of the grave was lined with a layer of evil smelling black (burnt) human fat, resembling black soap. As no evidence of fabric was brought to the surface, it may be assumed that the corpses are naked. The conclusion was drawn that the preservation of the corpses was due to the fact that they lay virtually hermetically sealed between the layer of the water above and the layer of solidified fat below, underneath which the natural, dry and compressed sand through which no air could penetrate, resulted in their partial mummification. Area: 1,500 sq m.http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html
Grave pit No. 1: Located in north-western part of the camp. Dimensions of the grave was determined as 40 m x 12 m and over 4.80 m deep, filled with bodies in wax-fat transformation, and a mixture of burnt human bones and charcoal. Beneath this deep strata lay a several-centimetres-thick layer of foul-smelling water beneath which were found unburnt corpses compressed by the weight of soil to a layer 20 cm thick. The drill core brought to the surface putrid pieces of human remains, including pieces of skull with skin and tufts of hair attached, and unidentifiable lumps of greyish, fatty, human tissue. The bottom of the grave was lined with a layer of evil smelling black (burnt) human fat, resembling black soap. As no evidence of fabric was brought to the surface, it may be assumed that the corpses are naked. The conclusion was drawn that the preservation of the corpses was due to the fact that they lay virtually hermetically sealed between the layer of the water above and the layer of solidified fat below, underneath which the natural, dry and compressed sand through which no air could penetrate, resulted in their partial mummification. Area: 1,500 sq m.
Here are the 137 published "Drawings" of the core samples: http://imgur.com/a/Wxa1z
Please locate the "Huge mass graves"
Further, he WAS lying. He said Treblinka was turned to farmland in 1943 but in fact air photos from 1944 showed that it was not.
Correction: there were ZERO mass graves found at Belzec. The excavation by Andrzej Kola, unsurprisingly, doesn't show any human remains. He took 236 drilling samples and published 137 of them, and only two of them are designated as containing "human corpses" Two out of 236 is LESS THAN ONE PERCENT - definitely doesn't constitute a single mass grave.
Two out of 236 is LESS THAN ONE PERCENT - definitely doesn't constitute a single mass grave.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html
It is indeed amusing to hear you claim that Raul Hilberg is lying while you quote codoh.com and vho.org liberally. Tell me why we should trust your sources while dismissing swampig's. What makes your sources more trustworthy than his?
What is so laughable about his claims while we supposedly should take yours seriously.
Honestly your vindictiveness and derisive attitude does not really convince and seem more borne out of a desperate attempt to undermine your opponent's character that because you truly believe you hold the truth in this matter.
For example, he argued that Nazis turned Treblinka into farmland in 1943 but air photos from 1944 suggest otherwise. He argues that mass graves were found at alleged 'death camps' but there has been no published reports of such, and all verifiable information of the multiple excavations have produced no evidence of mass graves. Furthermore, he argues that polish scientists found chemical residue on the gas chamber walls of Auschwitz, but the traces were so insignificant that they are inconclusive. And he further ignores the fact that their original report (that they tried to suppress due to their unscientific nature) found massive quantities of residue on the delousing chamber walls - but no measurable residue on 4/5 of the 'gas chamber' samples and negligible residue on the 1 sample. In spite of this, he continues to mention this psuedoscientific report in spite of the obvious flaws and by the author's own admission the purpose of the report was political/ideological, not scientific in nature. Combined with multiple other ridiculous claims, I have every right to point out the weak arguments he posts over and over.
Still waiting for you to give one single reason to believe in the Holocaust.
I see, anyone who believes in overwhelming evidence for the Holocaust is really someone who is ready kill another person for their beliefs. This as opposed to the zealot intent on converting the unbeliever to the truth? .
This as opposed to the zealot intent on converting the unbeliever to the truth? .
A transit camp? Good grief. And they cover it up with farmland no less. Nice try. The Nazis never went to such great effort to destroy infrastructure as they were retreating. Blowing up railroad tracks every 50 meters or so would have been sufficient to delay Soviet advance. Burying the rubble of buildings and covering the site with farmland was something the Nazis would never generally do.
As the Allied forces got closer in the Fall of 1943 evacuation of the camp was begun. Orders were given to destroy the camp so that no traces of its existence would remain. A farm was built on the Treblinka site and it was offered to a Ukrainian to run it for income. (17) (17) Hilberg, Raul, "The Destruction of the European Jews." New York: Holmes & Meier Publishers, Inc. 1985. I guess you'll have to read Paul Hilberg's account. Otherwise, the Holocaust denial industry would have seized on the official line that Treblinka and other death camps weren't completely dismantled (not simply destroyed) and covered up in every possible way.
(17) Hilberg, Raul, "The Destruction of the European Jews." New York: Holmes & Meier Publishers, Inc. 1985.
I guess you'll have to read Paul Hilberg's account. Otherwise, the Holocaust denial industry would have seized on the official line that Treblinka and other death camps weren't completely dismantled (not simply destroyed) and covered up in every possible way.
Further, there is no evidence that it was truly the Nazis that covered the camp in farmland.
May 15, 1944 Air Photo Air photo shows 6 visible buildings intact. The triangle shaped area is white because there is no farm vegetation growing. There are no scars from prior guard towers or fences around the perimeter, and no large scale excavations in the lower right corner of the alleged camp.
September, 1944 Air Photo Air photo shows three buildings have been destroyed, two have walls remaining, one month after Soviet Army occupied area. There are scars in the summer vegetation of three possible previous temporary buildings without cement foundations, but no scars from alleged previous concrete foundations or large scale excavations.
Laughable, apparently the camp was dismantled in 1943 but according to May 1944 air photos it still existed. Oops...
Because it takes far less cyanide to kill humans than for delousing.
But the measurement for humans is a measurement used to kill one single human being and thus is extremely low. So if 1000 people were in a room, that specific concentration wouldn't even be able to kill one because it would be widely dispersed throughout the entire room. Of course you need way more poison to kill 1000 people compared to 1 (and some alleged witnesses say there were 2-3 thousand per gassing) so the argument falls flat on it's face as holocaust believer bullshit.
"The lethal dose 100%, LD100, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill all (100%) individuals of an observed species. This value is used to make sure that all individuals are successfully killed. The lethal dose 1%, LD1, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill 1% of all individuals of an observed species. This value is used to mark a threshold beyond which an exposition to that poison is definitively dangerous."
The arugment is very deceptive because the Holocaust lie is as deceptive as it gets. Only lies and fabrications can be used to justify such an illogical belief.
We've been over this already; a Polish academic team found thin cyanide coating on the walls of the gassing rooms.
Furthermore, their original experiment that didn't discriminate against iron-bounded cyanides found no cyanide residue in 4 of 5 samples and very small quantities in 1 sample, versus massive quantities of residue in the delousing chamber samples. So they simply ignored these results (in the real world this is called scientific dishonesty and would normally get you expelled from the scientific community)
Their reasonings why they ignored iron-bounded cyanides? "It is hard to imagine the chemical reactions and physicochemical processes that could have led to the formation of Prussian blue in that place." Literally: "We don't understand how it could have happened, so we just pretended like it didn't" Truthfully: "It would have proved the evil deniers right, so we ignored it"
Utterly pathetic for the holocaust believers
From another thread:
So basically without any knowledge of chemistry one can see the logically fallacious methodology of the Holocaust believers: 1. By ignoring and excluding data because the authors didn't understand how it could have formed 2. Ignored and excluded what would have helped them understand regarding #1 3. Used methodology only because they knew it would help prove their point 4. Suppressed results that didn't agree with their original hypothesis 5. Admitted the purpose of the paper was political and ideological in nature, and not scientific
This is your "Proof" - LOL!
There were 33 mass graves found in Belzec with an estimated 15,000 unburned humans found. 15,000 is no where close to the estimated 435,000 based on German telegram after the camp was closed disclosing the number who died but your claim that there have been no mass graves found at death camps is demonstrably wrong.
CO is a great way of killing someone because it attaches to the rbc and doesn't release like CO2 from diffusion or blood level alkalinity. I have no idea if diesel exhaust contains low amounts of CO and high amounts of O2 but I'd be surprised if the Nazis made the rooms well ventilated as they were pumping truck fumes into them.
Without some understanding of the basic characteristics of diesel engines, the method that would have come to mind most readily for any would-be mass murderer would have been to simply mount a diesel engine on the floor of a building and direct the exhaust into some adjoining rooms without any provisions for artificial load on the engine. Such an arrangement would have annoyed the hell out of any group of intended victims, but would have given them nothing worse than a headache. [...] For any diesel arrangement to have been even marginally effective for mass murder, it would have required an exceptionally well-informed team of individuals to know and do all that was necessary. They would have had to be familiar with the carbon monoxide and oxygen emission curves for their particular engine. Such information above and beyond the usual environmental pollution data is probably not known even today by most engineers [...] The all-important question is: if any persons had been smart enough and resourceful enough to know and do all that was necessary to make a workable diesel gas chamber, why would they have bothered to try and use a diesel engine in the first place? For all their efforts they would have had a gas chamber which at the very most would still have been only marginally effective at its morbid task. For all their efforts they would have had an average concentration of less than 0.4% carbon monoxide and more than 4% oxygen.
It is. Your beliefs on the Holocaust, as shown by your inability to give any evidence supporting your views, are completely faith-based. You still can't give one reason to believe in it and yet you continually deny the facts presented to you.
I see, anyone who believes in overwhelming evidence for the Holocaust is really someone who is ready kill another person for their beliefs.
Basically any retreating army, as a rule, destroys facilities and infrastructure
Where is the proof that the Nazis allegedly destroyed and turned the death camps into farmland?
As the Allied forces got closer in the Fall of 1943 evacuation of the camp was begun. Orders were given to destroy the camp so that no traces of its existence would remain. A farm was built on the Treblinka site and it was offered to a Ukrainian to run it for income. (17)
1. Why are there no significant traces of chemical residue on the gas chamber walls?
Because it takes far less cyanide to kill humans than for delousing. We've been over this already; a Polish academic team found thin cyanide coating on the walls of the gassing rooms.
Why have multiple excavations of alleged 'death camps' fail to find any alleged 'mass graves'? Why are there no published reports of any 'mass graves' at the alleged 'death camps'?
4. Why would the Nazis gas people with diesel exhaust which is ineffective for killing humans as it gives out low levels of CO and high levels of oxygen?
The biggest frauds around are the usual Holocaust deniers who pretend they are just skeptics when everyone knows they are only interested in actively promoting their Holocaust denial propaganda. Those losers are not interested in listening to other views or finding out the truth just in spreading BS from the usual pseudo scientists deniers.
This is what happens when you dare consider that possibly communist soviets and Nazi-hating zionists don't tell the full truth: (the hat is to protect his head from when racist, truth-hating zionists throw bricks at him for being honest)
"Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing." - George Orwell
"Truth does not fear investigation"
There is nothing inherently wrong with holocaust denial and to think that there is only proves how brainwashed and retarded you are. Why can't we investigate the holohoax? Why shouldn't we be allowed to test the gas chamber walls and excavate the alleged 'mass graves' jake? If someone accused you of murder wouldn't you demand they at least find the bodies and prove the murder weapon was used? Would you demand more evidence than eyewitness testimony?
"Despite the threadbare evidence, in 1988 Demjanjuk was found guilty in his first trial, in Israel, and sentenced to death by hanging for his crimes. His attorneys appealed and after several years of solitary confinement, his case went to the Israeli Supreme Court. [...] in a surprise conclusion, the Israelis found the evidence for his conviction insufficient and released him in July of 1993."
DO YOU EVEN SEE HOW FUCKED UP THAT IS?
This guy had a FAKE ID made for him "Proving" that he was a mass murderer, and he was SENTENCED TO DEATH and at the last minute they eventually realized THEY HAD NO EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM and let him go free.
Have you ever seen someone sentenced to death like that and then all of a sudden they admitted that the evidence was insufficient"
Simply and utterly pathetic...
Yes, that's an accurate comparison.
Anyway, why were the camps destroyed and turned to farmland by the Nazis?
Basically any retreating army, as a rule, destroys facilities and infrastructure, so that the advancing army will not have the advantage to use them. Where is the proof that the Nazis allegedly destroyed and turned the death camps into farmland? Don't make baseless claims.
A more interesting question is if they destroyed it, as you probably think, to hide evidence of mass murder, why did they destroy the crematoria but not the alleged gas chambers? This happened at Majdanek, alleged "Death camp". Probably because it was a delousing chamber, not a gas chamber.
1. Why are there no significant traces of chemical residue on the gas chamber walls? 2. Why did the Polish researchers who tested the walls of the gas chamber discard their first study results showing insignificant residue on the gas chamber walls but very significant residue on the delousing chamber walls?3. Why have multiple excavations of alleged 'death camps' fail to find any alleged 'mass graves'? Why are there no published reports of any 'mass graves' at the alleged 'death camps'? 4. Why would the Nazis gas people with diesel exhaust which is ineffective for killing humans as it gives out low levels of CO and high levels of oxygen? 5. Why did the alleged 'diesel gassing eyewitnesses' inaccurately describe what happens when one dies from CO poisoning?
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