Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic Libertarians Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]Forever Angel[/m] at 5:02 pm on June 10, 2012[quote]While third party advocates argue principle, this country is being turned into a European third world, bankrupt nation. How will you save Greece? [/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post Wilder Posted at 4:10 pm on June 10, 2012 Is it in your best political interests to support a Libertarian Party candidate like Gary Johnson or a libertarian Republican like Ron Paul? Obviously there are lots of answers more nuanced than one or the other, but at some point push comes to shove (ie: you only get one vote). Do you see a significant reason to support someone within the GOP over someone outside of it or vice-versa? Do you affect more politicians by supporting the GOP fringe or by supporting their third-party competitors?

Replies Bud2400 Posted at 12:58 pm on June 12, 2012 Quote: from lollerwhat at 9:40 pm on June 11, 2012 I think there was about the same amount of Libertarian type support back in 08, but none of it was organized. I've noticed a lot more support this time around than back in 2008.  I think the economic collapse and all that has boosted the popularity of libertarians, given that their forecasts of the economy were proven right, and consequently this has made a lot more people open up to things like Austrian economics and true fiscal conservatism than before. Elm Posted at 7:15 am on June 12, 2012 Organizing libertarians is like trying to herd cats that are on fire.  This is the main problem for libertarians as a political movement - its often the case that a disagreement of 15% or less leads to fracturing off of supporters that agree with the other 85%. I am of the philosophy that my goal is more liberty for more people so if X libertarian candidate is going against Y establishment and believes in 40% more liberty minded ideas than Y even if X and I disagree on 20% - I will support X.  Which is why I did and continue to support Rand even though he has positions I disagree with. He is Right on economics. He is Right on civil liberties (most of the time). He is wrong about foreign policy. He replaced an individual who was: Wrong on economics Wrong on civil liberties Wrong on foreign policy. lollerwhat Posted at 9:40 pm on June 11, 2012 I think there was about the same amount of Libertarian type support back in 08, but none of it was organized. Elm Posted at 8:57 pm on June 11, 2012 I don't think Rand is fully on board with foreign policy but it doesn't really matter if he ends the Fed there won't be enough spending to support aggressive military policies. jakelong Posted at 2:51 pm on June 11, 2012 With the hope that Rand won't sellout when it comes to foreign policy. The New World Order Posted at 2:49 pm on June 11, 2012 I think when Rand goes for the nomination which is highly likely in 2016 if Obama wins, libertarians will eventually go for him after he explains his platform better and with likely support from his dad. Bud2400 Posted at 2:07 pm on June 11, 2012 Quote: from The New World Order at 2:02 pm on June 11, 2012 Back when Paul ran in 2008 there wasn't anywhere near as much libertarian support as there is now, and its growing at a steady pace if it continues to grow at the same rate, by next election it could be a defining factor in the race. Yeah that's what I'm saying.  In 2008 Ron Paul was truly more of a fringe candidate in the republican primaries, in 2012 he was one of the main players, if not the main alternative to Romney.  Hard to say what will happen in 2016 because without Ron Paul, the newly empowered libertarian faction in the republican party might have a tough time coordinating itself without a real leader.  Rand Paul could do it, but given the way he endorsed Romney, I think too many libertarians are annoyed with him.  Maybe that will change my 2016 and Rand could truly push libertarianism in the republican party over the tipping point to being the dominant faction. The New World Order Posted at 2:02 pm on June 11, 2012 Quote: from Bud2400 at 6:54 am on June 12, 2012 I thought about this topic a little more and I think both strategies are appropriate for different situations. If your group is small - too small that it would be swallowed up by one of the two major parties and thus ignored if you tried to influence it from within - then it would probably be a more effective strategy to go third party, where your refusal to support one of the major party's candidates when you otherwise would only hurts them and forces them to try to appeal to your group. However, if your group, though still relatively small compared to the whole major party in general, is large enough to gain some influence within the party, then clearly it's more effective to influence within the party rather than go third party. Libertarians seem to be this way now in the republican party, and seem to only have recently achieved such numbers and support. We've probably witnessed a major transition from the former to latter for libertarians and the republican party in the last 5 years. Back when Paul ran in 2008 there wasn't anywhere near as much libertarian support as there is now, and its growing at a steady pace if it continues to grow at the same rate, by next election it could be a defining factor in the race. Bud2400 Posted at 1:54 pm on June 11, 2012 I thought about this topic a little more and I think both strategies are appropriate for different situations.  If your group is small - too small that it would be swallowed up by one of the two major parties and thus ignored if you tried to influence it from within - then it would probably be a more effective strategy to go third party, where your refusal to support one of the major party's candidates when you otherwise would only hurts them and forces them to try to appeal to your group. However, if your group, though still relatively small compared to the whole major party in general, is large enough to gain some influence within the party, then clearly it's more effective to influence within the party rather than go third party.  Libertarians seem to be this way now in the republican party, and seem to only have recently achieved such numbers and support.  We've probably witnessed a major transition from the former to latter for libertarians and the republican party in the last 5 years. jakelong Posted at 10:12 pm on June 10, 2012 Yeah we need a revolution of hearts and minds within the Republican party. There is plenty of room for conservative libertarian ideals within the GOP. The GOP brass and population just need to realize this. lollerwhat Posted at 9:55 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from Bud2400 at 5:06 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:02 pm on June 10, 2012 While third party advocates argue principle, this country is being turned into a European third world, bankrupt nation. How will you save Greece? Maybe revolution is what we need. Better stock up food and ammo, but be discrete because you don't want the feds aware of what you're doing. Forever Angel Posted at 5:09 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from Bud2400 at 7:06 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:02 pm on June 10, 2012 While third party advocates argue principle, this country is being turned into a European third world, bankrupt nation. How will you save Greece? Maybe revolution is what we need. Better stock up food and ammo, but be discrete because you don't want the feds aware of what you're doing. Patrick Henry is my hero. Bud2400 Posted at 5:06 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from Forever Angel at 5:02 pm on June 10, 2012 While third party advocates argue principle, this country is being turned into a European third world, bankrupt nation. How will you save Greece? Maybe revolution is what we need.  Better stock up food and ammo, but be discrete because you don't want the feds aware of what you're doing. Forever Angel Posted at 5:02 pm on June 10, 2012 While third party advocates argue principle, this country is being turned into a European third world, bankrupt nation. How will you save Greece? Wilder Posted at 4:55 pm on June 10, 2012 Quote: from The New World Order at 5:30 pm on June 10, 2012 Until a clear trend shows otherwise, its just not worth wasting your vote to someone outside the two party system, at least help to mold one of the party's to a more libertarian direction, The whole point of voting for a third party is to mold one of the two major parties. When the GOP loses votes to the Libertarian Party candidates they have to start adopting more libertarian platforms to regain those votes, just like the Democrats are forced to emphasize the environment more when they lose liberal voters to the Green Party. Most recent 15 of 27 previous replies displayed.