The Storm Front population is growing very high.
This is a scary thought to me, a site that was relatively known but used to an extent is now becoming even bigger.
I can see a fight happening between those who decide to blame minorities for there problems and those of us who are good enough to use equality for the betterness of humanity.
In all...
Death to Supremacy and death to Storm Front.
What is accepted is the theory of Aryan LANGUAGE migration. The theory of Aryan POPULATION migration is in dispute because we don't really know who migrated where and if the orginators of the aryan LANGUAGE were one or more ethnic groups and what race they were. Get it now?
The theory of Aryan POPULATION migration is in dispute because we don't really know who migrated where and if the orginators of the aryan LANGUAGE were one or more ethnic groups and what race they were.
Get it now?
There are quite a few genetic markers that correspond with the Kurgan theory.
You make a theory. I say its unproven and probably unprovable. Your theory failed to pass the test. End of story.
Unproven and unprovable?
Well, it has a lot of supporting evidence, but it's trying to be proven (and disproven) at this moment.
Also, Wiki:
A specific haplogroup R1a1 defined by the M17 (SNP marker) of the Y chromosome (see:[5] for nomenclature) is associated by some with the Kurgan culture.
Those are small mutations not complex enough to get thier own letter. You can make an educated guess that they were of the same race as that happened.
Again, is it MY theory? No, it's just one that I tend to lean towards.
And if it failed to pass "The test" - then why is it the most common Aryan invasion theory? Why is it the most accepted?
You were kidding, but you were just putting it in all of your posts...
That doesn't mean the theories are WRONG though.
What claim?
Not any more than you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis" target="_top">http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis
Prehistoric Europeans probably Neanderthal. I never talked of Cro-magnon.
I never talked of Cro-magnon.
Neanderthal?
There is absolutely no evidence to support mixing with Neanderthals. Wiki:
A 2003 study on Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA, published by an Italo-Spanish research team led by David Caramelli, concluded that Neanderthals were far outside the modern human range, while Cro-Magnons were well in the average of modern Europeans.
Which still does not say anything about race.
Ther wasn't so much mixing back then Jakey.
About the indo-aryan migration here is what people have found out 1. The evidence is mainly LINGUISIC No proof that there is an association with a particular race
1. The evidence is mainly LINGUISIC No proof that there is an association with a particular race
But, the fact remains: They went to Europe - and until you can prove those European Aryans mixed with non-Aryans - they didn't really change much from the original Aryans.
2. When people do trace the ancestry of the arraivas from the caspain sea they find that
That doesn't mean that they'll never find out.
Blue eyes, remember, can be traced back to the Black Sea region. Shocker...
3. When they can trace indo-european languages and geneic orgin to any Europeans they find that That haplogroup is East European. So Aryns as you think them are East Europeans. (which are NOT the same as Haplogroup I which are the scandinavians)
That haplogroup is East European. So Aryns as you think them are East Europeans. (which are NOT the same as Haplogroup I which are the scandinavians)
But, you have to look at how they came about, what mutations they arose from.
They can trace the history of each mutation you know. R1b and R1a came from the same mutation (R1). R came from P which came from K which came from F - the same thing I came from.
4. But even #3 is not proven since
5 Finally
It proves that THEY ARE NOT SURE YET - not that they are 100% certain at anything.
So basically the "migration" was a movement of culture and language . But the movement of peoples may or may not be related. NO ONE KNOWS. In Plain English: the whole Aryan race thing is unproven at this point.
NO ONE KNOWS.
In Plain English: the whole Aryan race thing is unproven at this point.
There had to be people that brought it (Most accepted theory stating the Black Sea region) and that they may have given that to other populations with DIFFERENT GENETICS and they passed it on themselves.
Therefore, it originated among Aryans and passed it on.
You Fail. (and I proved it)
You made the claim - you back it up.
The thing is that you don't really have many sources for this claim :D
I remember the last time you said that. You never named them.
You never named them.
Cro-Magnons were Proto-Nordics.
About the indo-aryan migration here is what people have found out
Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity."
A 2006 genetic study by the National Institute of Biologicals in India, testing a sample of men from 32 tribal and 45 caste groups, concluded that the Indians have acquired very few genes from Indo-European speaking migrants.
Kennedy (in Erdosy 1995:49) remarks that: "Our multivariate approach does not define the biological identity of an ancient Aryan population, but it does indicate that the Indus Valley and Gandhara peoples shared a number of craniometric, odontometric and discrete traits that point to a high degree of biological affinity." Cephalic measures though might not be a good indicator as they do not necessarily indicate ethnicity and their might be a tendency of plasiticity due to environment
Witzel (in Erdosy 1995:113) states that 'their genetic impact would have been negligible and, as was the case with the Normans in England, would have been "lost" in a few generations in the much larger gene pool of the Indus people.' Vijendra Kashyap, one of the authors of Sahoo et al. (2006), states that the people of the Indian subcontinent are indigenous to South Asia, but that Indo-European languages aren't, and that language change resulted from the migration of numerically small superstrate groups that are difficult to trace genetically.
3. When they can trace indo-european languages and geneic orgin to any Europeans they find that
The spread of the Indo-European languages is associated with Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a1, which is identified with genetic marker M17. The Genographic Project conducted by the National Geographic Society states that M17 arose "in the region of present-day Ukraine or southern Russia.".
However (Kivisild 2003a; Kivisild 2003b) have revealed that a high frequency of haplogroup 3 (R1a1) occurs in about half of the male population of Northwestern India and is also frequent in Western Bengal. These results, together with the fact that haplogroup 3 is much less frequent in Iran and Anatolia than it is in India, indicates that haplogroup 3 found among high caste Telugus did not necessarily originate from Eastern Europeans. Kivisild et al. (2003) "suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".
Kennedy (in Erdosy 1995:54) concluded, "there is no evidence of demographic disruptions in the north-western sector of the subcontinent during and immediately after the decline of the Harappan culture. If Vedic Aryans were a biological entity represented by the skeletons from Timargarha, then their biological features of cranial and dental anatomy were not distinct to a marked degree from what ]we encountered in the ancient Harappans."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration
So basically the "migration" was a movement of culture and language . But the movement of peoples may or may not be related.
Or
Can you prove they're not?
Yep the non- aryan Europeans who were there originally were not Aryans. True.
Do so now.
*Hint: Cro-Magnons aren't the answer. Cro-Magnons were Proto-Nordics.
Also, the Black Sea flood (The first Great Aryan Migration - yet not the first) is estimagted to be only as old as 7.5 thousand years ago - Humans weren't referred to as "Cro-Magnon" after 10,000 years ago.
Wiki:
mtDNA retrieved from two Cro-Magnon specimens was identified as Haplogroup N.
Look at this: Sources:
Therefore, anything coming from the N mtDNA haplogroup can trace itself back to Cro-Magnons.
This, as you can see in the chart, includes: I,W,A,X,Y,R,B,F,HV,H,V,O,J,T,U, and K
Now according to this chart (same sources):
That looks to be about ALL, if not the vast majority, of Europe.
Therefore, they are not Aryan, but they could have SOME Aryan influence, genetically and linguistically.
But, you said that They might be the real Aryans.
They were there originally.
Aryan origin language.
Not origin.
Or could you PROVE that it's an Aryan-created language?
The original Moari came from some where else too.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/mrm/mrm03.htm Oooh this is fun!
Oooh this is fun!
Do you still stand by this?
You just quoted someone that said they migrated from India to New Zealand - are you going to tell me that they didn't mix at all?
Where did the non-Aryan peoples come from then?
Also, the Māori language is an Austronesian language.
The original Māori people were there.
Check out The Quest for Origins by KR Howe for the Aryan roots of Polynesian ppl
http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/MaoriNewZealanders/IdeasOfMaoriOrigins/2/en
1840s-1930s: the Aryan theory The Aryan Maori (1st of 3) 'The death of Marion du Fresne' European interpretations (1st of 2) Ideas about Māori origins (1st of 2) Comparative science In the second half of the 19th century the idea of the Semitic or Jewish Polynesian was replaced by that of the Aryan or Caucasian Polynesian. Rather than Egypt or Greece, India was seen as the original homeland of Polynesians. This was a result of the fashionable science that was flourishing in England - comparative linguistics, religions and mythologies. One of the great intellectual achievements of the time was to understand the historical connections and development of languages. This began with William Jones in 1786, who argued that there were links between European languages and Sanskrit, the ancient language of India. A succession of linguists gradually revealed the existence of the language family they called Indo-European. In the 19th century influential scholars such as Oxford linguist Max Müller pointed to the significance of ancient Aryan societies who moved into India. Subsequent Indian language and culture underlay the classical civilisations of Greece and Rome, and in turn the societies of modern Europe. Müller equated the history of language with the history of race, and believed in the concept of a single Aryan ancestry shared by Europeans and Indians. Māori became included in the chain of peoples thought to descend from the ancient Aryan tribes. Edward Tylor, a founder of anthropology, extended the analysis to include ethnographic as well as linguistic clues, and claimed that some cultures contained evidence of 'survivals' from the formative stages of human society. Sanskrit 'survivals' While commentators had gropingly applied comparative linguistic and religious ideas in the Pacific since the time of Captain Cook, the new comparative sciences offered more systematic analysis. It was not long before scholars in the Pacific found links between the Malayo-Polynesian and the Indo-European language families. It was claimed that Pacific Island languages did contain significant remnants of Sanskrit; and that island customs, mythologies and religions were full of fragments of Aryan culture. The linguist and scholar Edward Tregear, who came to New Zealand in 1863, argued that some of Müller's Sanskrit-speaking Aryans in India moved through the South-East Asian archipelago and out to the islands of the Pacific, including New Zealand. He declared that Māori language, mythology and customs contained extensive evidence of this Aryan-Indian heritage. These clues were seen to unlock the secrets of Polynesian culture, and also to offer glimpses of the formation of Aryan culture itself. Aryan or Caucasian theory was widely accepted in New Zealand and Pacific scholarship at least until the 1930s.
The Aryan Maori (1st of 3)
'The death of Marion du Fresne' European interpretations (1st of 2) Ideas about Māori origins (1st of 2)
Comparative science In the second half of the 19th century the idea of the Semitic or Jewish Polynesian was replaced by that of the Aryan or Caucasian Polynesian. Rather than Egypt or Greece, India was seen as the original homeland of Polynesians. This was a result of the fashionable science that was flourishing in England - comparative linguistics, religions and mythologies.
One of the great intellectual achievements of the time was to understand the historical connections and development of languages. This began with William Jones in 1786, who argued that there were links between European languages and Sanskrit, the ancient language of India. A succession of linguists gradually revealed the existence of the language family they called Indo-European.
In the 19th century influential scholars such as Oxford linguist Max Müller pointed to the significance of ancient Aryan societies who moved into India. Subsequent Indian language and culture underlay the classical civilisations of Greece and Rome, and in turn the societies of modern Europe. Müller equated the history of language with the history of race, and believed in the concept of a single Aryan ancestry shared by Europeans and Indians. Māori became included in the chain of peoples thought to descend from the ancient Aryan tribes. Edward Tylor, a founder of anthropology, extended the analysis to include ethnographic as well as linguistic clues, and claimed that some cultures contained evidence of 'survivals' from the formative stages of human society.
Sanskrit 'survivals' While commentators had gropingly applied comparative linguistic and religious ideas in the Pacific since the time of Captain Cook, the new comparative sciences offered more systematic analysis. It was not long before scholars in the Pacific found links between the Malayo-Polynesian and the Indo-European language families. It was claimed that Pacific Island languages did contain significant remnants of Sanskrit; and that island customs, mythologies and religions were full of fragments of Aryan culture.
The linguist and scholar Edward Tregear, who came to New Zealand in 1863, argued that some of Müller's Sanskrit-speaking Aryans in India moved through the South-East Asian archipelago and out to the islands of the Pacific, including New Zealand. He declared that Māori language, mythology and customs contained extensive evidence of this Aryan-Indian heritage. These clues were seen to unlock the secrets of Polynesian culture, and also to offer glimpses of the formation of Aryan culture itself.
Aryan or Caucasian theory was widely accepted in New Zealand and Pacific scholarship at least until the 1930s.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/mrm/mrm03.htm
Quote: from Catacomb at 3:45 pm on Nov. 22, 2008 death to everything Oh god.
death to everything
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