How about you?
some people who survived holocaust are still alive
you are idiot or what?? how can you wrote it never happened??? even small children know that it HAPPENED!!!
even small children know that it HAPPENED!!!
Quote: from Autumndaze at 6:39 pm on June 13, 2008 Of course. I doubt it was exaggerated too. There was this lady at this museum in Michigan and she was a Holocaust survivor. She described all of the suffering everyone dealt with, while she was describing she was in tears and you could hardly understand what she was saying. I don't think it was exaggerated. How can one claim that it never happened? How can you say that it was overblown? ditto there was a whole part of my family that died in the holocaust i have heard speeches from multiple people who either liberated or had to live in the concentration camps i have a family friend who is a survivor and has a tattoo on his arm how could it possibly be fake?
Of course. I doubt it was exaggerated too. There was this lady at this museum in Michigan and she was a Holocaust survivor. She described all of the suffering everyone dealt with, while she was describing she was in tears and you could hardly understand what she was saying. I don't think it was exaggerated. How can one claim that it never happened? How can you say that it was overblown?
How can one claim that it never happened?
How can you say that it was overblown?
ditto there was a whole part of my family that died in the holocaust i have heard speeches from multiple people who either liberated or had to live in the concentration camps i have a family friend who is a survivor and has a tattoo on his arm how could it possibly be fake?
Exactly. I don't know how someone can say that The Holocaust never happened. Millions of people died. They have some of this stuff on records. They kept things on records.
It happened.
How so? If anything, it looked more to me like they wished to deport their Jews out of Germany (and other European countries) to a location reserved to be entirely for Jews. But due to WWII, that had to be put on hold.
the difference is one of inconsideration as opposed to an attempt to kill them all.
I believe the holocaust could still be called a genocide.
But I certainly don't deny that there were some individual Nazis out there who wouldn't object, and perhaps even advocated, the death of all Jews.
I just don't believe that the Nazis had a collective party-wide policy of killing as many Jews as possible based on the evidence I've seen.
But the important part is the leaders did INTEND that to happen.
Quote: from ButtSechs69 at 6:55 pm on June 12, 2008 I don't understand your "Nazis didn't intend on killing all Jews" bit. Did they intend on leaving 10 left or something? At the rate they were going, it seemed like they intended on getting rid of most of them... It's not too difficult to understand.
I don't understand your "Nazis didn't intend on killing all Jews" bit. Did they intend on leaving 10 left or something? At the rate they were going, it seemed like they intended on getting rid of most of them...
It's not too difficult to understand.
You keep going into "context" but it still don't change the FACT that they INTENDED it.
Very interesting paragraph here, but again, you're taking it out of context by using it as support for the Nazis gassing the Jews.
Remember, for World War I, it was alleged by the Nazis and other anti-semitic groups that the Jews caused it to gain profit from it.
The why is another story. You were claiming they did not intent or it was not part of their plan, Well killing jews and annihilating them WAS part of it.
thus that the Jews there (who were alleged to be in control of the USSR) must be annihilated.
Again, Jake, context. The Nazis believed that the portion of Jews who refused to integrate into German culture were parasitic and must be deported from Germany to their own state
Well first they did not want them in Germany. But then the Nazis tied to conquer the whole world and called the areas thy invaded "greater germany". They went in Africa, in the Middle East and wanted to invade Russia. So where did they want the Jews to be? Also they called them parasites to the world. So what you do with parasites to the world? You remove them from the world. They also said there cannot be peaceful coexistence. It was the"good germans" or the Jews.
So what did the Nazis think you do when you have the threat of a deadly parasite to the world? Answer that.
I doubt a Jewish uprising in these camps was that big a concern. I mean, what did the Jews have to fight with?
The majority of society did not care that Jews and other groups were rounded up and thrown into slave labor at these camps
This wasn't a secret, and if the Nazis truly meant to kill all of them, I don't see why they'd keep it a secret either.
After all, they advocated killing all communists, which weren't necessarily traitors to the German government
It wouldn't have been too difficult for the Nazis to justify the deaths of these women and children as they'd probably link all of this to genetics, hence why they wouldn't hide it.
There probably would have been more disapproval among the German nationals, but I can't imagine it being anything that would create a potential uprising.
but that I am suspicious of any testimony for the same reasons any court of law would be (I explained this in my last post).
Moreover, just because you find bones in furnaces doesn't mean people were burned in them alive or even corpses which died from gassings were burned in them.
What else you need?
but the fact that you can interpret it this way with as few problems as saying that people were gassed and then burned in them leads me to believe that there isn't enough evidence for the latter assertion
The fact that you can interpret history one way or the other doesnt mean that you gotta believe the skeptics. As I said I dont get any real result when I google for "skeptic proof Salem". But I get a zillion for the holocaust. But the salem ting was even further back in time, theres no like a ton of evidence for it and not even survivors talking live to us about it. So what makes you think it really happened?
That's just simply bullshit.
Remember, little kids have little hands. These little hands are very useful for putting together very small parts that an adult with larger hands would have a very difficult time doing.
At first yeah. but when the shit hit the fan the nazis didn't care about anything else but qhos healthy and survives and who can be elminated.
I know all about the Wannsee Conference. I see all this crap
They did say "treat all Jews accordingly," but honestly, how out of context can you take "treat accordingly" and still make it look accurate?
I'd imagine "treat accordingly" meant something more along the lines
I certainly see no evidence of the Nazis advocating for death from this alone and to say they are is dishonest at best.
Hey let's read what they really mean from their texts ok? ----------------------------------
Fundamentally, one must decide whether or not to bring the Jews in Germany (as well as those of Jewish descent) together organizationally. Many plans announced so far propose to bring the Jews together in a federation so that they can be kept under watch, and influenced. All of these proposals are fundamentally in error. Were one to establish a federation of the Jews, whether under some kind of Jewish overseer or in some sort of federation or other innocent-looking structure, the Jews would have an eternal legal anchor in Germany, a way to present their wishes, a tool for their goals, a legal way to secure secret links.
All proposals that include a permanent presence, a permanent regulation of the Jews in Germany, do not solve the Jewish Question, for they do not eliminate the Jews from Germany (denn sie lösen die Juden nicht von Deutschland). And that is what we want to do
Instead, one must find an affirmative solution that frees Europe of wandering Jewish masses.
The Jew is the parasite of humanity. He can be a parasite for an individual person, a social parasite for whole peoples, and the world parasite of humanity.
One of Jewry's particular characteristics is a dislike of physical labor. His physical appearance alone did not predestine him to physical labor. But as the result of generations of inbreeding and of his racial mixture, the Jew made this his goal. He would rather trade, leaving work to others.
Who is the Jew? The Jew is also a product of his drives, and obeys his natural law. The Führer calls this "Lucifer's tragedy"! That is so! We call destructive elements in nature parasites. They are creatures who can no longer survive on their own, due to the atrophy of their vital organs, such as their lungs, digestive system, reproductive organs, or that cannot move. They are no longer able to secure their own food and digest it, and are therefore dependent on other living plants or animals. They devour their hosts. They fall like locusts on them, suck their life away, destroy them. Their tragedy is that, in doing so, they destroy themselves in the end. Nature always helps. When parasites gain the upper hand, they devour each other.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/pesthauch.htm
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/weltparasit.htm
Ok so accroding to nazis:
1. jews are parasites to humanity (not just germans) 2. they not good with manual labor 3. they spread all over the world 4. they cant really be put in a federation under german rule because they might get out of it anyway.
So what you think they wanted to do with them? Send them to mars?
Here is the Nazi answer:
There is thus in this struggle against Judah only a clear either/or. Any half measure leads to one's own destruction. Judah and its world must die if humanity wants to live; there is no other choice than to fight a pitiless battle against the Jews in every form, and not to give up until the last Jewish thinking has been destroyed everywhere.
We National Socialists have exterminated the Jewish spirit and the Jews themselves in Germany. We will not cease this struggle until the final judgment has been spoken against the Jews. Judah must die! Anti-Semitism will triumph throughout the world.
We not just talking of ideas here. we talking about people.
Who in this struggle can still speak of pity, brotherly love, etc.? Who believes that a parasite (e.g., a louse) can be improved or changed? Who believes that one can come to an agreement with a parasite? We can only choose between being devoured by the parasite or destroying it. The Jew must be destroyed wherever we meet him! In so doing, we commit no crime against life, but rather serve life's laws of battle, which always oppose that which is an enemy to healthy life. Our battle serves to maintain life.
The Jew must be destroyed wherever we meet him!
In so doing, we commit no crime against life, but rather serve life's laws of battle, which always oppose that which is an enemy to healthy life. Our battle serves to maintain life.
Tell me this is not a call to exterminate Jews. Go ahead try it.
Also, remember that it might have been used to burn bodies that died of disease in the labor camps in order to prevent the spread to disease
What makes you think I only doubt the holocaust?
To be honest, the holocaust is the one genocide out of them all that we're all confronted with the most.
As far as the Civil War went, there were records of people who were in the Union and Confederate armies, as well as body counts.
Again, they disregard any migrations that may have occurred either immediately before or after the holocaust, hence why it's unreliable.
I never denied people dying in the camps.
I merely question whether it's as much as 6 million.
How can you actually report a total of 6 million people getting gassed or whatever?
But some WERE gassed. A lot of them.
You can report gassings, but you can't report a total of 6 million people over many different camps.
Trauma has a tendency to skew peoples' memories.
Now, the holocaust was quite a bit different because it took place over a period of years rather than just a day.
But when they talk about the gassings that occurred, of which they never saw (because they were never gassed) nor did they clean the bodies up, I get skeptical.
1. There were a lot of furnaces going round the clock
2. They saw people going into a shower room and nobody comes back
3. The GIs who opened up the camps found shower rooms connected to gassing tanks
4. Some survivors had been recruited to work on the shower rooms and shoveled dead bodies,
you get some reason to doubt everything these testimonials say.
When I say "hard proof," I generally mean proof that isn't subject to very much error. Scientific tests, census data (except in the case of the holocaust for the reasons I described above), etc. all count as this.
You mean the hundreds of thousands of civilians of Dresden and Tokyo dying from being firebombed by the Allies?
Remember, census figures and body counts for soldiers. These are imperative to estimating the actual number of deaths in a war or massacre.
some possible errors in the figure of 6 million dead Jews which have not been properly addressed.
Why are you criticizing me for trying to figure out exactly how many people died? Is it really such a bad thing to analyze the evidence we have available and point out possible errors in them?
The fact that the holocaust has become so scrutinized over the last 50 years
, in many European countries, gets you thrown in jail.
My skepticism mainly comes from the fact that it's difficult for people to freely express
That's pretty easy to prove since we do have videos of that and can read plenty about the environment on the moon which supports the details shown in that video.
I mean when people REFUSE to believe the truth they gonna find ANY excuse to doubt it anyway.
Again, why do they have to be gassings?
I've said many times that many in the labors camps died of diseases, which is honestly no surprise given the conditions of those camps.
Advice: Never take testimonials at face value.
The fact that many of these testimonials occurred many, many years after the holocaust just makes their memories of the events even more questionable. Lots of psychological trama can skew their memories of the holocaust.
I mean I did a google search on "skeptic proof civil war" Nothing. "skeptic proof Hiroshima" practically nothing. "skeptic proof crusades" zilch.
But "skeptic proof holocaust" and its like a deluge.
So dont give me any bullshit about ppl need to have "proof" in history. Nobody gives a fuck about proof on other historical events. Only the Holocaust.
Now why don't we hold holocaust testimonials to the same standard, I wonder?
If they really did, then how did so many survive?
The Nazis didn't have to endure the death marches.
Intentionally killing off their slave labor force would hinder that
But notice that they all weren't just gassed. Why is that?
Intentional to what extent? To see the Jews starve for the lulz?
But thus far, there has been no proof of a Nazi party policy to kill all Jews. This is key.
Eh, very different situations to be quite honest. The tragedy we're talking about occurred over a period of about 4 or 5 years. The tragedy of the Native Americans began right at the beginning of European contact to fairly recently in history.
What makes you think that I have not read a lot of what is written about the holocaust?
And what makes you think that holocaust denial was any more accepted in the 1970s than they are now?
Furthermore, even if it does have anything to do with legislating the truth, it shows nothing but intolerance of criticism and holding the truth to honest standards.
What information can I bring? The burden of proof rests on those suggesting that the number of Jews who died were as high as 6 million.
If you want real discussion and thinking to happen, if you really want the truth then you gotta come up with a bit more than" the numbers were wrong because ppl was migrating". You gotta show hard facts that contest the accepted numbers. And then ppl can answer back.
And when they do show their evidence, I, as I have explained in this topic, have pointed out the errors in the evidence
The one making the claim always must defend their position
Thus when I question the claim of 6 million Jews being killed in the holocaust, it is not up to me to dismantle it
The scientists who contest a theory dont just go "oh its bullshit because theres not enough proof". They use some example, some data, some piece of evidence to say "ok then how do you explain this?"
why have I not seen anybody present any convincing evidence or information?
I'm merely pointing out the errors in the evidence for the number of 6 million provided and suggesting that according to these errors, the actual number must be smaller.
1. the errors cant be that big because the naxzis were pretty fixated on numbers and being accurate
2. its not "must" be smaller. its "could" be smaller.
3. the numbers could also be bigger.
559 users online 
225358 members 1374 active today Advertise Here
559 users online 225358 members 1374 active today Advertise Here
You have 1 new message.
