Quoting Post Archived Topic: It will not be bumped to the top of the forum. Topic lol ok this was fucking stupid Membername   Not a member? Sign Up Free (takes 20 seconds) Password   Forgotten your password? Post Font: Verdana Arial Black Georgia Comic Sans Impact   Size: Tiny Normal Big Huge   Color: Default Dark Red Red Orange Brown Green Olive Cyan Blue Dark Blue Indigo Black [ Check Spelling ] [ Post Preview ] [ LiveTags ] Quote: from [m]zombie4life[/m] at 4:25 pm on Aug. 12, 2008[quote]so I just read this topic of this 13 year old wanting to kill her self, and people were giving advice etc. etc. but it was removed due to content violations.. WTF who does that? she might just go end it all because she couldn't get any help because one of the moderators deleted her post.. When things like this happen it just makes me feel terrible about what live wire has turned into. I guess its rules.. but still, make a disclaimer or something so that people can post and get responses.[/quote] FAQ Keyword Search: Post Options Favorites Manager Notify me of new replies to this topic by email Notify me of new replies to this topic by private message Original Post zombie4life Posted at 4:25 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 so I just read this topic of this 13 year old wanting to kill her self, and people were giving advice etc. etc. but it was removed due to content violations.. WTF who does that? she might just go end it all because she couldn't get any help because one of the moderators deleted her post.. When things like this happen it just makes me feel terrible about what live wire has turned into. I guess its rules.. but still, make a disclaimer or something so that people can post and get responses.

Replies iconoclast Posted at 6:35 pm on Aug. 13, 2008 you may not have, but that was the reason david gave and we accepted We? You mean you and a bunch of other people, for no good reason either.     Its America, you trip over in the street and you cant get up before someone has put a lawyers business card in your hand. americans sue for anything, and if a mum finds out her now dead son/daughter has been asking for help with depression and unqualified teens have been giving it to him. Again, this was my point. Regardless of the 'suicide' topic itself, there will be other topics and if someone is nuts enough to sue LW in the first place, they will already. shes gonna try to imporve the world by ensuring it never happens again, e.g. ensuring Livewire is closed down, then shes gonna want compensation. cunts like this are inevitable, unlikely to happen, if it does there's no reason why the suicide rule would play any significance.   so why give them an excuse to target LiveWire, remember these aint bored teens these are adults that have to spend alot of money themselves to take LW to court, thus they need a strong motivation, i dont think any of teh current content would provide such motivation. There's no excuse or 'motivation' needed, anyone who tries to sue LW is already NUTS by their own devices. And anyone who has that much money and is going to do it is going to do it anyway regardless of one technicality.   Not always, but alot of the time, i know of mods themselves that remove such topics then PM the user.   However, the topic getting deleted with no PM is also extremely common. sorry, i've looked through davids topics and it seems they are just as screwed as everyone elses. i cant find the topic where he announced the changes.   So stop mentioning it until you have a hard case that this is likely, k? again, it takes an adult thats willing to fund a court case, thus not some snooty teenager, it would need to be someone with a real grudge, take away their child committing suicide and what can they hold a grudge against LW for? You're missing the point. If the kid commits suicide and they want to sue a teen forum for it (highly unlikely) one specific topic about suicide will not make a difference if the person has left a trail of misery (which is pretty much always the case with suicidal people here).   really not helping your case that your not just an upset teenager... I don't care. I've been on here almost as long as you, and if you can't see that she's a fucked up turbocunt, then well that's your problem. Maybe you haven't been involved enough.   I care about support, but i care about the long term provision of it, sacrificing one issue to ensure that a thousands other issues can be delt with seems fine to me. And the users wanting to commit suicide can still ask for help as long as they dont mention suicide. they can discuss and work through their problems still You're sacrificing a whole lot for basically nothing. Seriously, make a better case and stop relying on obscure long-shot garbage. This 'rule' has always been bullshit and I've stood my case on this issue dozens of times. ManicD Posted at 4:35 pm on Aug. 13, 2008 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:39 pm on Aug. 13, 2008       I think you misunderstood, it was that it could happen, and I've never seen this forum.   you may not have, but that was the reason david gave and we accepted         The point was that there's no reason for the site OR david to be sued.       Its America, you trip over in the street and you cant get up before someone has put a lawyers business card in your hand. americans sue for anything, and if a mum finds out her now dead son/daughter has been asking for help with depression and unqualified teens have been giving it to him. shes gonna try to imporve the world by ensuring it never happens again, e.g. ensuring Livewire is closed down, then shes gonna want compensation.     Not really, and you're building long-shot scenarios upon each other, which is honestly a common tactic of conspiracy theorists. If someone wants to sue LiveWire in the first place, there's plenty of shit they can dig up, especially if there are a lot of serious miserable topics around. And remember, LW can be brought to court anyway. If brought to court for either, it's highly unlikely the other side would win. The whole idea is the time and court costs would ruin everything. It's the same either way.   so why give them an excuse to target LiveWire, remember these aint bored teens these are adults that have to spend alot of money themselves to take LW to court, thus they need a strong motivation, i dont think any of teh current content would provide such motivation.     The rules are totally irrelevant to what I said. the rules give LW a backdoor reason to delete the topic without the user feeling singled out     PM's are nice, but it's still a bad thing, AND this doesn't always happen. Not always, but alot of the time, i know of mods themselves that remove such topics then PM the user.   Actually, professionals can be sued themselves and kicked off. But the point of what I said is that it is extremely condescending to just tell someone to shut up and get professional help.   yes professionals can be sued, i mentioned that, and they have insurance to cover that, to be kicked of the register, serious misconduct would have to be proven and thats very hard with psychology, so really all they are worried about is the money side of fighting a case.     I'd like evidence of this, and I'd like the full story. And even if true, one case doesn't necessarily make a big difference. There are isolated cases of EVERYTHING. sorry, i've looked through davids topics and it seems they are just as screwed as everyone elses. i cant find the topic where he announced the changes.     Yep, it's the legal fees. And my point was that those legal fees will be incurred 'REGARDLESS' of whether there is a suicide topic or not, because whether or not there is is totally irrelevant to whether someone TRIES to sue LW. If someone is that nuts, they'll do it anyway. again, it takes an adult thats willing to fund a court case, thus not some snooty teenager, it would need to be someone with a real grudge, take away their child committing suicide and what can they hold a grudge against LW for?     No, she's a long term over-emotional turbocunt, and should be banned from this site forever. really not helping your case that your not just an upset teenager...     If you care about support so much, stop acting like the 'rules' matter and defending the bullshit actions of the admin. I care about support, but i care about the long term provision of it, sacrificing one issue to ensure that a thousands other issues can be delt with seems fine to me. And the users wanting to commit suicide can still ask for help as long as they dont mention suicide. they can discuss and work through their problems still iconoclast Posted at 2:39 pm on Aug. 13, 2008 What forum, i dotn know, but i clearly remeber when the rule was first instated davids reason was that another forum had been taken to court over a simelar incident I think you misunderstood, it was that it could happen, and I've never seen this forum.   Endorsement has NOTHING to do with it. Livewire is not a Limited company and thus if livewire get sued the money comes out of davids PERSONAL account The point was that there's no reason for the site OR david to be sued.   Yes but other grounds are much much harder to build a case for, as i say this all started when another forum WAS taking to court over a suicide. Not really, and you're building long-shot scenarios upon each other, which is honestly a common tactic of conspiracy theorists. If someone wants to sue LiveWire in the first place, there's plenty of shit they can dig up, especially if there are a lot of serious miserable topics around. And remember, LW can be brought to court anyway. If brought to court for either, it's highly unlikely the other side would win. The whole idea is the time and court costs would ruin everything. It's the same either way.   I agree its emotionally harmful, but the rules state the topic should not have been created in the first place, this means that if someone creates one and its removed, LiveWire is only reminding the user what they agreed to. The rules are totally irrelevant to what I said. The PM, from a user such as myself, is designed to counteract some of that feeling when the topic is removed, it's designed to make the user feel that although the topic is gone someone is still taking the time to personally offer advice. I even got a "thank you i might try and call them" reply from the user in question when i sent the message, and i normally get some sort of response. PM's are nice, but it's still a bad thing, AND this doesn't always happen. Professionals may be shit but its their liability not LW's. These professionals take out Liability insurance, it means that if they are sued, the insurance company pay the fines. LW, as far as i know, does not have such insurance. Actually, professionals can be sued themselves and kicked off. But the point of what I said is that it is extremely condescending to just tell someone to shut up and get professional help.   As i say, a forum DID get taken to court, LW never used to have this rule, it was added BECAUSE the other forum got taken to court. This is/was a real risk and one david/LiveWire could not afford. Win or lose the legal fees alone would bankrupt LiveWire I'd like evidence of this, and I'd like the full story. And even if true, one case doesn't necessarily make a big difference. There are isolated cases of EVERYTHING. Yep, it's the legal fees. And my point was that those legal fees will be incurred 'REGARDLESS' of whether there is a suicide topic or not, because whether or not there is is totally irrelevant to whether someone TRIES to sue LW. If someone is that nuts, they'll do it anyway. as for picking on mods now your just sounding even more of a stroppy teenager...let me guess, she deleted a few of your replies and now your upset... No, she's a long term over-emotional turbocunt, and should be banned from this site forever. If you dont like the way LW is run, fuck off and find another forum, quit making snide comments. I really cant stand people like you.  If you care about support so much, stop acting like the 'rules' matter and defending the bullshit actions of the admin. ManicD Posted at 2:14 pm on Aug. 13, 2008 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 2:14 am on Aug. 13, 2008 Quote: from ManicD at 7:36 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 another forum got sued ALOT of money because a child had asked for help there and then killed themselves, it was deemed the site had given innaproprite advice and thus was responsable. Which forum? This has never been shown, yet it's been talked about a billion times. I'm sure there's also much more to the story. And by the way, people giving advice on a forum in no way implies that they're professionals. They're just giving fucking peer advice. Also, professional help is often bullshit. Psychiatry sucks.   What forum, i dotn know, but i clearly remeber when the rule was first instated davids reason was that another forum had been taken to court over a simelar incident For this reason LiveWire cannot risk such action, LiveWire is funded by David and Liability for its content falls in his head In no way does David necessarily endorse anything said on this site, it even says this in the information.   Endorsement has NOTHING to do with it. Livewire is not a Limited company and thus if livewire get sued the money comes out of davids PERSONAL account he would have to personally pay the costs should action be brought against LW. Anyone who is stupid enough to, by a long shot, want to sue LiveWire, would likely have done it regardless of whether 'suicide topics are allowed or not'. That variable is irrelevant because so much CRAZY shit out there would have to happen for it to happen in the first place.   Yes but other grounds are much much harder to build a case for, as i say this all started when another forum WAS taking to court over a suicide. They will get a PM explaining this and advising them to seek professional help from one of several helplines available for this situation. Excuse me? This is fucking condescending bullshit. Most people who have at a point attempted suicide, myself included, have been through many, many professionals. And, we honestly don't think much of that fucking shit. Not to mention that DELETING someone's damn help topic, when it's their last resort is harmful emotionally.   I agree its emotionally harmful, but the rules state the topic should not have been created in the first place, this means that if someone creates one and its removed, LiveWire is only reminding the user what they agreed to. The PM, from a user such as myself, is designed to counteract some of that feeling when the topic is removed, it's designed to make the user feel that although the topic is gone someone is still taking the time to personally offer advice. I even got a "thank you i might try and call them" reply from the user in question when i sent the message, and i normally get some sort of response.   Professionals may be shit but its their liability not LW's. These professionals take out Liability insurance, it means that if they are sued, the insurance company pay the fines. LW, as far as i know, does not have such insurance. What this really amounts to is something that makes suicidal people feel WORSE and MORE LIKELY to commit suicide than if the topics stayed, just because David is a paranoid fuck. Even if there was a real, albeit small chance of a lawsuit (which there really isn't, it's a long shot), this would be just as likely to cause one. An airplane isn't going to fall out of the sky and blow me up, but there's always the chance. But we ignore the remote possibility, and go on with our lives. Get my drift?   As i say, a forum DID get taken to court, LW never used to have this rule, it was added BECAUSE the other forum got taken to court. This is/was a real risk and one david/LiveWire could not afford. Win or lose the legal fees alone would bankrupt LiveWire I've never heard a bigger load of horseshit, except maybe if someone said that katyduck was a great moderator. Seriously, you sound like you're reciting shit from a book. as for picking on mods now your just sounding even more of a stroppy teenager...let me guess, she deleted a few of your replies and now your upset... Welcome to the real world, there are people in positions of power, you may not like them, you don't have to get on with them, but you dam well sit down and shut up and do what they say or you go find yourself another job. If you dont like the way LW is run, fuck off and find another forum, quit making snide comments. I really cant stand people like you. iconoclast Posted at 6:14 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 Quote: from ManicD at 7:36 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 another forum got sued ALOT of money because a child had asked for help there and then killed themselves, it was deemed the site had given innaproprite advice and thus was responsable. Which forum? This has never been shown, yet it's been talked about a billion times. I'm sure there's also much more to the story. And by the way, people giving advice on a forum in no way implies that they're professionals. They're just giving fucking peer advice. Also, professional help is often bullshit. Psychiatry sucks. For this reason LiveWire cannot risk such action, LiveWire is funded by David and Liability for its content falls in his head In no way does David necessarily endorse anything said on this site, it even says this in the information. he would have to personally pay the costs should action be brought against LW. Anyone who is stupid enough to, by a long shot, want to sue LiveWire, would likely have done it regardless of whether 'suicide topics are allowed or not'. That variable is irrelevant because so much CRAZY shit out there would have to happen for it to happen in the first place. They will get a PM explaining this and advising them to seek professional help from one of several helplines available for this situation. Excuse me? This is fucking condescending bullshit. Most people who have at a point attempted suicide, myself included, have been through many, many professionals. And, we honestly don't think much of that fucking shit. Not to mention that DELETING someone's damn help topic, when it's their last resort is harmful emotionally. What this really amounts to is something that makes suicidal people feel WORSE and MORE LIKELY to commit suicide than if the topics stayed, just because David is a paranoid fuck. Even if there was a real, albeit small chance of a lawsuit (which there really isn't, it's a long shot), this would be just as likely to cause one. An airplane isn't going to fall out of the sky and blow me up, but there's always the chance. But we ignore the remote possibility, and go on with our lives. Get my drift? I've never heard a bigger load of horseshit, except maybe if someone said that katyduck was a great moderator. Seriously, you sound like you're reciting shit from a book. ManicD Posted at 4:39 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 Extra...and should the member who PM'ed the suicidal member be lucky, he/she may get a reply saying thank you like i just did. Then that member can go away feeling happy that they may have really helped someone ManicD Posted at 4:36 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 another forum got sued ALOT of money because a child had asked for help there and then killed themselves, it was deemed the site had given innaproprite advice and thus was responsable. For this reason LiveWire cannot risk such action, LiveWire is funded by David and Liability for its content falls in his head, he would have to personally pay the costs should action be brought against LW. He cannot afford that, LW does not have that kinda money. Thus all topics on suicide are removed. Should the user be lucky and a member such as myself see the topic before removal, They will get a PM explaining this and advising them to seek professional help from one of several helplines available for this situation. FurryPanther Posted at 4:27 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 It's due to legal reasons. We cannot offer the support they need, and a professional can. They need to go there. FP MystiqueBeauty16 Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 The moderators aren't trained professionals in the topic of suicide and neither are any of the members here. We have no means of really helping her or communicating with her like a professional needs to. It is out of Livewire's hands at this point, thus the post was removed. Skip Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 i would agree with u, but thats the rules Clouse227 Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 I think its been like this for a while. Its just you. That is...unless youve been here before a while, then I wouldnt know. Spice Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 We cannot deal with suicide topics for legal reasons. We can deal with issues that make them feel that way, but not specifically the feelings of suicide. Jehovah Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 It was Audrey820 wasnt it. I hate her. So hard... Kankalicious Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 It's kind of a liability issue. h a t t Posted at 4:26 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 Ain't allowed to talk about suicide, chico. It's always been that way. Most recent 15 of 16 previous replies displayed.