Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by nikki at 12:33 pm on July 9, 2008 This ISN'T another topic moaning about the number of eHelps or the lack or responses in the serious forum. After a quick discussion with some other support leaders, we came to the fairly obvious conclusion that something needs to be done about the support here. If anyone has ANY recommendations about how we can improve either of those places, or the support on LiveWire generally, I'll make a list and get it to David's attention. I'll give this topic ONE WEEK here. Please post any new ideas that you have, and I'll compile it all into a list of sensible ideas, and submit it to David for reviewing. GO (: -- Posted by hithere at 12:36 pm on July 9, 2008 this entire post was edited. okay, the main problem i see here, that i've always seen, is a pretty basic conflict. we have something called "emergency help", somewhat implying that if you use it, you can get a quick answer. while, at the exact same time, we have people applying to be able to answer ehelps, and they're told that they need to have long, detailed, thoughtful replies. we need to change one side of this. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 12:36 pm on July 9, 2008 Here is a copy of what I posted in the other topic: Maybe we should talk to David to see what can be done?  I think we should just get rid of the Serious Forum altogether and just focus on the eHelp system.  We should make it mandatory that each Support Leader provide a quality reply to at least one eHelp a week.  There could also be a three week leeway to accommodate those who have a perfectly good excuse for not responding to any eHelps in a while.  Failure to do so should result in demotion. What do you guys think? -- Posted by marshmellowman at 12:38 pm on July 9, 2008 Scrap the Serious Forum because it has become a barren wasteland, and instead implement a function for the OP to reply to SL's comments in the eHelp system. -- Posted by hithere at 12:38 pm on July 9, 2008 i think we should give the serious forum more time...it's only been back for 5 months... -- Posted by nikki at 12:39 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Define Your Line at 8:36 pm on July 9, 2008 We should make it mandatory that each Support Leader provide a quality reply to at least one eHelp a week. Failure to do so should result in demotion.   What I don't like about this is that we can't FORCE people to reply. Like it or not, becoming a support leader is voluntary, and I think that making them reply to a certain number of eHelps per week will discourage people from applying. Otherwise, it will just mean we lose a lot of good support leaders for a fairly pointless reason. -- Posted by nikki at 12:40 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 8:38 pm on July 9, 2008 i think we should give the serious forum more time...it's only been back for 5 months... But the reason it was scrapped before is because no-one used it. Over half the topics in there have no replies. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 12:40 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 8:38 pm on July 9, 2008 i think we should give the serious forum more time...it's only been back for 5 months... But it's failing, catastrophically, and I don't think that will change. It is being overlooked by support leaders, but does it have any use or extra value? The only thing going for it is for the OP to be able to reply to it, why can't that be implemented into eHelp? There are so few replies and some topics go past with only one or no replies that I see no point for it to be there. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 12:41 pm on July 9, 2008 I understand what you're saying and I do agree with you on this.  Creating some sort of standard for eHelps is a good way to keep the less severe ones out of the eHelp system and therefore put into the regular forums.   However, I don't feel that we have the right to make the determination between a severe and a non-severe issue.  Like I mentioned before in the other topic: I've seen some eHelps remain unanswered and eventually drift into the pile of old eHelps.  It's sad when that happens.  Even if their problem isn't that big, it means a lot to them.  Just because it doesn't seem like a big problem to us, it is a big problem to them.  I hate it when people underestimate the severity of some problems on here.  I totally understand if it's really stupid.  But, in some cases, just because the person doesn't feel that it's a big problem, they feel that they have the right to ridicule it and underestimate its severity. I don't agree with that because no one can tell someone else that their problem is not severe and it is not important.  We all have problems and its severity is determined by our experiences in our lives.  A big problem for me could possibly seem like a small problem for you.  But due to my experiences with problems, it could really take a toll on me.  Therefore, I try to address each problem as if I were looking through the other person's eyes and try to see and understand their perspective on the situation as opposed to my own beliefs. I know some people who refuse to reply to eHelps or topics in the Serious Forum due solely to the fact that they feel the problem is not important, which is wrong. -- Posted by nikki at 12:46 pm on July 9, 2008 Well, there are some eHelps there that just AREN'T emergencies. I mean, "How can I get a buff bod in a week" is NOT an emergency. It can be stuck in the forums. I agree that we need to be able to reply to eHelps we make, with the OP remaining anonymous if that's how they posted their eHelp, because I think that would be HUGELY beneficial. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 12:49 pm on July 9, 2008 In terms of the serious forum... why not make it accessible by everyone.  Not just support leaders... and instead, tighten up the moderation in that forum.  Posts can also have a minimum length to it, like in the intellectual forums, so you can't have any short replies...?  Then again, I can also see that failing miserably and many people complaining about having posts removed... I mean, otherwise, the serious forum and e-helps don't have much of a difference. In terms of the e-help system.  I feel like we've been getting MORE recently.  It's not that the support has dropped, per say.  But more that there is now more of a demand for it.  I can answer one topic, and suddenly there will be four more.  I mean... the support has lowered?  But it's the same people doing the same thing as before... This being said, possibly bringing up the standards of what can be an e-help. I don't know how many people would be opposed, but in the e-help section, there can be a quick link to ALL support leaders (or all the one's that are interested).  This way, if they have a specific question, they can message an SL individually... likewise, a forum group can be made (private of course) for an SL to ask a question if they don't know how to help that particular person, and reference them to someone else...?  I mean... if there are sections too... support leaders to deal with depression, anxiety, pregnancy, sex, relationships, family, etc... and I dunno.  Just a thought... the only thing is, this might ultimately cause SLs to become even MORE stretched out, and that's teh last thing we need. So, my thoughts in a nutshell. -Get rid of the serious forum OR open it up to everyone with stricter moderation and guidlines for posts. -Tighten up on the guidelines for what can be put in the e-help system.  Give links to other options before an e-help is created to see whether or not it can be done without an e-help being created. -Limit e-helps to one per person per week (they can always talk to support leaders or use the serious forum otherwise, though that may not work) I dunno, just some thoughts. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 12:58 pm on July 9, 2008 I agree with the fact that we should separate all of the interested Support Leaders into different categories to cover different issues - just like the way the Moderators are each responsible to moderate different forums.  But, on the eHelp page, there is a link to access a list of all of the Support Leaders.  However, I really like the idea of separating all of the Support Leaders into groups.  I think this would be beneficial.  However, I do not really agree with the fact that we should make guidelines to eHelps.  I do agree with the fact that we should limit the amount of eHelps to one per person per week. -- Posted by nikki at 1:06 pm on July 9, 2008 I quite like idea of say, along with "moderators" for each forum, also having some support leaders for each one too. Then, people could always message a support leader who's online for some advice if that's what they want. -- Posted by xoxo1234 at 1:08 pm on July 9, 2008 In terms of the serious forum... why not make it accessible by everyone.  Not just support leaders... and instead, tighten up the moderation in that forum.  Posts can also have a minimum length to it, like in the intellectual forums, so you can't have any short replies...?  Then again, I can also see that failing miserably and many people complaining about having posts removed... I mean, otherwise, the serious forum and e-helps don't have much of a difference. How would this be different than the regular support forums? Anyway. As I stated in my topic, I agree with the trashing The Serious Forum. It's too spread out, and harder for us to get to everything. It'd be much easier if we had everything in the eHelps, and if it ISN'T an emergency, we'll just vote to delete and the topic will be moved to the main forums. I agree with Sabrina that there should be SOME requirement for support leaders, although I do believe one eHelp reply is a bit too tight. I was thinking, maybe twice a month. Just to make sure you're still here. Another idea -- this may confuse things, but would it help to split the support leaders into two categories, and you can only apply for what you want? eHelp PSL's and forum PSL's. Maybe this will take the pressure off, and we won't feel like we're forcing people to support? eHelp support leaders would have to submit some amount of eHelp replies per some amount of time as discussed, but this way it's something we choose (to what Nikki mentioned). -- Posted by xoxo1234 at 1:09 pm on July 9, 2008 Hmm, looks like there were a few replies while I was writing my reply. Lol, well, take a look at what I wrote, it's pretty similar to the "moderating" idea, although possibly a bit less complicated. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:11 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from xoxo1234 at 4:08 pm on July 9, 2008 In terms of the serious forum... why not make it accessible by everyone. Not just support leaders... and instead, tighten up the moderation in that forum. Posts can also have a minimum length to it, like in the intellectual forums, so you can't have any short replies...? Then again, I can also see that failing miserably and many people complaining about having posts removed... I mean, otherwise, the serious forum and e-helps don't have much of a difference. How would this be different than the regular support forums?   Anyway. As I stated in my topic, I agree with the trashing The Serious Forum. It's too spread out, and harder for us to get to everything. It'd be much easier if we had everything in the eHelps, and if it ISN'T an emergency, we'll just vote to delete and the topic will be moved to the main forums.   I agree with Sabrina that there should be SOME requirement for support leaders, although I do believe one eHelp reply is a bit too tight. I was thinking, maybe twice a month. Just to make sure you're still here.   Another idea -- this may confuse things, but would it help to split the support leaders into two categories, and you can only apply for what you want? eHelp PSL's and forum PSL's. Maybe this will take the pressure off, and we won't feel like we're forcing people to support? eHelp support leaders would have to submit some amount of eHelp replies per some amount of time as discussed, but this way it's something we choose (to what Nikki mentioned). The forum and eHelp PSL's may be a little too confusing because I can guarantee you that there will be many, many more people applying to be a forum PSL as opposed to an eHelp PSL.  That's just my assumption. -- Posted by nikki at 1:11 pm on July 9, 2008 I think that's always possible. I mean, I like the idea of people applying to eHelp supporters, I think that could help, as when a lot of people first applied to become support leaders (especially the older members), the idea of eHelp was never in existence. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 1:13 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Define Your Line at 12:58 pm on July 9, 2008 I agree with the fact that we should separate all of the interested Support Leaders into different categories to cover different issues - just like the way the Moderators are each responsible to moderate different forums.  But, on the eHelp page, there is a link to access a list of all of the Support Leaders.  However, I really like the idea of separating all of the Support Leaders into groups.  I think this would be beneficial.  However, I do not really agree with the fact that we should make guidelines to eHelps.  I do agree with the fact that we should limit the amount of eHelps to one per person per week. When already do have some sort of guidelines for e-helps.  And I know full well that a problem for someone else may be something that wouldn't bother me in my life.  I'm not saying to undermine how important an issue is to someone or to limit them from asking the questions. They still have other options (The forums, the serious forum, individual PMs to SLs)... why do questions about whether or not you are pregnant, how to lose weight, what is love? need to be in the e-helps?  We don't even need to delete them, but to maybe direct them as to where it can go?  I suppose that already exists and it still doesn't work... I dunno, just a thought. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:14 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 4:11 pm on July 9, 2008 I think that's always possible. I mean, I like the idea of people applying to eHelp supporters, I think that could help, as when a lot of people first applied to become support leaders (especially the older members), the idea of eHelp was never in existence. But there will be a lot more applications for the forum PSL as opposed to the eHelp PSL. Don't you agree? -- Posted by xoxo1234 at 1:15 pm on July 9, 2008 The forum and eHelp PSL's may be a little too confusing because I can guarantee you that there will be many, many more people applying to be a forum PSL as opposed to an eHelp PSL.  That's just my assumption. Yeah, but it'll definitely minimize if not eliminate our frustration with the large amount of support leaders and the few of us that actually answer eHelps. As Nikki is mentioning, it would also solve the problem of having SLs who prefer to reply on the forums, and therefore are unable to submit the hypothetically required quota. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:16 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 4:13 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Define Your Line at 12:58 pm on July 9, 2008 I agree with the fact that we should separate all of the interested Support Leaders into different categories to cover different issues - just like the way the Moderators are each responsible to moderate different forums. But, on the eHelp page, there is a link to access a list of all of the Support Leaders. However, I really like the idea of separating all of the Support Leaders into groups. I think this would be beneficial. However, I do not really agree with the fact that we should make guidelines to eHelps. I do agree with the fact that we should limit the amount of eHelps to one per person per week. When already do have some sort of guidelines for e-helps. And I know full well that a problem for someone else may be something that wouldn't bother me in my life. I'm not saying to undermine how important an issue is to someone or to limit them from asking the questions. They still have other options (The forums, the serious forum, individual PMs to SLs)... why do questions about whether or not you are pregnant, how to lose weight, what is love? need to be in the e-helps? We don't even need to delete them, but to maybe direct them as to where it can go? I suppose that already exists and it still doesn't work... I dunno, just a thought. I agree with what you're saying - there are some questions like that in the eHelp system.  This is why I really liked your idea of sorting the Support Leaders into categories to cover different issues and creating a public list of these people that are accessible to all members on the eHelp page. -- Posted by hithere at 1:17 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 12:40 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 8:38 pm on July 9, 2008 i think we should give the serious forum more time...it's only been back for 5 months... But the reason it was scrapped before is because no-one used it. Over half the topics in there have no replies. oh okay, i didn't know that... in other issues, i'm completely against forcing people to make ehelp replies, if only because i think people like me are valuable to ehelp. i can't answer most ehelps to any extent that is above anybody else, so i don't. even if it doesn't seem like my reply would be bullshit, i just decide not to answer because i feel they wouldn't get anything out of it besides something that's probably drilled in everybody's brain. there are only a few topics about which i feel i can really give exceptional support. i don't neglect ehelp, not even close, i just rarely see something that really sparks my interest. i expect that there are many other support leaders like me, and each one of us, although hardly contributing to "stop the flashing" that we care so much about, contribute to the system in a valuable way. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:17 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from xoxo1234 at 4:15 pm on July 9, 2008 The forum and eHelp PSL's may be a little too confusing because I can guarantee you that there will be many, many more people applying to be a forum PSL as opposed to an eHelp PSL. That's just my assumption. Yeah, but it'll definitely minimize if not eliminate our frustration with the large amount of support leaders and the few of us that actually answer eHelps. As Nikki is mentioning, it would also solve the problem of having SLs who prefer to reply on the forums, and therefore are unable to submit the hypothetically required quota. But, by doing this, there will be a lot less applicants to be an eHelp PSL.  Therefore, it really won't help the situation with the large amount of eHelps remaining unanswered. -- Posted by nikki at 1:18 pm on July 9, 2008 Yeah, I know. I agree with you. I think that could be a good idea, but again it might be a bit awkward to implement. Like, would we all have to re-apply to get various statuses (sp?) or what? I think it may be a bit too complicated for what it's worth, at least in the short-term. -- Posted by xoxo1234 at 1:18 pm on July 9, 2008 They still have other options (The forums, the serious forum, individual PMs to SLs)... why do questions about whether or not you are pregnant, how to lose weight, what is love? need to be in the e-helps? We don't even need to delete them, but to maybe direct them as to where it can go? I suppose that already exists and it still doesn't work... I dunno, just a thought. Pregnancy is an emergency, in my opinion. It may seem easy to solve, but it definitely belongs in eHelp -- and hey, that makes it easier for us! You know, I don't think the main problem is people submitting eHelps that belong in the forums. If they're "easy", they shouldn't take long for us to answer anyway, and therefore the only issue would be sorting them out -- but that's really not THAT big a deal. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:19 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 4:17 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 12:40 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 8:38 pm on July 9, 2008 i think we should give the serious forum more time...it's only been back for 5 months... But the reason it was scrapped before is because no-one used it. Over half the topics in there have no replies. oh okay, i didn't know that... in other issues, i'm completely against forcing people to make ehelp replies, if only because i think people like me are valuable to ehelp. i can't answer most ehelps to any extent that is above anybody else, so i don't. even if it doesn't seem like my reply would be bullshit, i just decide not to answer because i feel they wouldn't get anything out of it besides something that's probably drilled in everybody's brain. there are only a few topics about which i feel i can really give exceptional support. i don't neglect ehelp, not even close, i just rarely see something that really sparks my interest. i expect that there are many other support leaders like me, and each one of us, although hardly contributing to "stop the flashing" that we care so much about, contribute to the system in a valuable way. I understand that there will be some topics where you feel that you cannot provide your input on and I totally understand that.  However, I'm sure in a span of a month you will be able to find at least two that you can reply to.  And if not, you can explain why you felt that you could not meet the quota and therefore will be excused for that particular month. -- Posted by nikki at 1:21 pm on July 9, 2008 I think it's just that eHelp seems SO urgent. Like, it's there, flashing, the whole time, and it's the thing people bitch about if questions aren't responded to fast enough. I think this PSL/eHelp PSL idea is just too complex, though. -- Posted by Define Your Line at 1:21 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 4:18 pm on July 9, 2008 Yeah, I know. I agree with you. I think that could be a good idea, but again it might be a bit awkward to implement. Like, would we all have to re-apply to get various statuses (sp?) or what? I think it may be a bit too complicated for what it's worth, at least in the short-term. Yes, I agree with you here.  I mean, it may be too much to actually do right now.  I am not sure if it will really work out the way that we intended it to work out. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 1:21 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from xoxo1234 at 1:08 pm on July 9, 2008 In terms of the serious forum... why not make it accessible by everyone. Not just support leaders... and instead, tighten up the moderation in that forum. Posts can also have a minimum length to it, like in the intellectual forums, so you can't have any short replies...? Then again, I can also see that failing miserably and many people complaining about having posts removed... I mean, otherwise, the serious forum and e-helps don't have much of a difference. How would this be different than the regular support forums?   Anyway. As I stated in my topic, I agree with the trashing The Serious Forum. It's too spread out, and harder for us to get to everything. It'd be much easier if we had everything in the eHelps, and if it ISN'T an emergency, we'll just vote to delete and the topic will be moved to the main forums.   I agree with Sabrina that there should be SOME requirement for support leaders, although I do believe one eHelp reply is a bit too tight. I was thinking, maybe twice a month. Just to make sure you're still here.   Another idea -- this may confuse things, but would it help to split the support leaders into two categories, and you can only apply for what you want? eHelp PSL's and forum PSL's. Maybe this will take the pressure off, and we won't feel like we're forcing people to support? eHelp support leaders would have to submit some amount of eHelp replies per some amount of time as discussed, but this way it's something we choose (to what Nikki mentioned). I suppose there's not much of a difference.  But if there's a length requirement put on it, and possibly the need to write things properly and not with slang, then you can still get quality responses from other members.  Some people just don't want the bickering of others, or they otherwise just want some kind of support that comes in a serious matter... My thoughts behind this is that there may be some members that AREN'T support leaders that sometimes want to help, and they may be more likely to browse that forum... it may or may not do anything, it's a thought. In terms of e-Help SLs (eSLs) and forum SLs (fSLs)... what would happen to an eSL that didn't meet their quota.  Simply put, if I don't have time, I don't have time.  I love answering e-helps, but I don't want to feel 'forced' into doing it.  As soon as you put a restriction on me, that's the moment that my level of support will drop.  The freedom of doing so on my own time is important to me.  I feel enough guilt when I can't answer many... I think it would only make the strain worse.  And personally... I wouldn't want someone giving me advice just because they ~had~ to.  As it is, there are already some members that have clearly stated they have no interest in doing e-helps, but didn't mind other things (like the serious forums).  So while you can still split up the groups, I would strongly go against putting any kind of ~requirements~ for how many e-helps or responses you need to do. -- Posted by nikki at 1:23 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Define Your Line at 9:21 pm on July 9, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 4:18 pm on July 9, 2008 Yeah, I know. I agree with you. I think that could be a good idea, but again it might be a bit awkward to implement. Like, would we all have to re-apply to get various statuses (sp?) or what? I think it may be a bit too complicated for what it's worth, at least in the short-term. Yes, I agree with you here. I mean, it may be too much to actually do right now. I am not sure if it will really work out the way that we intended it to work out. I just think it's not the easiest way to go about things, that's all. I like the idea, but it's too complex to be implemented. I love the idea of a list of support leaders with "specialist" areas, though. Maybe they could be assigned to forums, or something? And there could be a list of those online when you go to eHelp, too. Pages: 1 2  Next