Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by Avenue D at 12:17 pm on July 11, 2008 I think that just as we have a right to live, we have a right to die, whenever we want.  Unfortunately, suicide is illegal and if it fails you usually get resuscitated. If I don't like my life and want to die I think that euthanasia would be good for me (this is hypothetical).  However, family members and friends often consider the act of suicide selfish to them. But isn't it also selfish of the family and friends to not allow him the right to die?  I know that they love him, but that love has crossed into selfishness.  They would rather have him live a life of misery than enjoy a peaceful, painless death. Discuss. -- Posted by drifting at 12:20 pm on July 11, 2008 Personally, I think that it is a persons right to live or die as they please. If they have not been able to deal with life, or have quality of life issues, and they dont want to go on, then why should they? I agree. Society is quite unfair for making people feel like dying is the wrong thing to do. Whether it be someone who has immense depression/stress issues, or someone with a brain tumor, there is no reason why someone should be forced to live a horrible life just because everyone around them doesnt want to let go. If someone is ready to die, let them. -- Posted by mo money17 at 12:24 pm on July 11, 2008 It depends. I think everyone has the right to decide if their life is worth living or not, but it can still be selfish, even if they have the right to kill them self. Like say you're a mother with kids who depend on you and a husband who would be crushed if you died. In that case, yes it is selfish to commit suicide. -- Posted by Avenue D at 12:54 pm on July 11, 2008 Quote: from mo money17 at 12:24 pm on July 11, 2008 It depends. I think everyone has the right to decide if their life is worth living or not, but it can still be selfish, even if they have the right to kill them self. Like say you're a mother with kids who depend on you and a husband who would be crushed if you died. In that case, yes it is selfish to commit suicide. I don't have a husband, but I understand what you mean.  I won't do it because as you said, I do have kids that depend on me so thoughts of suicide are not going to develop in my mind until at least middle-age. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 2:00 pm on July 11, 2008 Depends how you're defining selfishness. If the person's family and friends are concerned that the person has a life worth living and is throwing it away, then they aren't being selfish; however, the person attempting suicide because he's in so much pain and can't bear it is. -- Posted by Avenue D at 2:26 pm on July 11, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 2:00 pm on July 11, 2008 the person attempting suicide because he's in so much pain and can't bear it is. Why should he be forced to live with pain for a long time when he could just end it all.  One's happiness is the most important thing to a person.  I think the family and friends are the selfish ones. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 3:17 pm on July 11, 2008 Quote: from Avenue D at 5:26 pm on July 11, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 2:00 pm on July 11, 2008 the person attempting suicide because he's in so much pain and can't bear it is. Why should he be forced to live with pain for a long time when he could just end it all. One's happiness is the most important thing to a person. I think the family and friends are the selfish ones. Why are they selfish when they know full well that the person's misery is only temporary? How are they any more selfish than the person who doesn't care if his family and friends are happy, only that he doesn't feel very good right now? -- Posted by ignatius at 12:28 am on July 13, 2008 " Why should he be forced to live with pain for a long time when he could just end it all." How can you be sure that the pain will end when a person dies ?! How can you be sure you don't have to endure a greater pain after the death than the one felt while alive ? There is absolutely no evidence that the pain  is going to disappear  after ending this life . Is much smarter to try to find a solution to the problem than to suicide to escape from it with no guarantee that may really go away . -- Posted by nikki at 10:10 am on July 13, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 11:17 pm on July 11, 2008 Why are they selfish when they know full well that the person's misery is only temporary? Nobody can judge someone elses happiness. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 11:22 am on July 13, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 1:10 pm on July 13, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 11:17 pm on July 11, 2008  Why are they selfish when they know full well that the person's misery is only temporary? Nobody can judge someone elses happiness. No, but you can know that, just like happiness, misery is an emotion that changes with time and circumstance. Depending on the reasons for a person's misery, I'd say that loved ones could pretty accurately gauge whether or not this person's misery would be temporary. Regardless, suicide is still the more selfish action, by definition. The loved ones are worrying about the suicide victim's happiness as well as their own, while the suicide victim is only worrying about his own happiness. -- Posted by nikki at 11:29 am on July 13, 2008 I disagree. I mean, you have no right to discriminate against a person for taking their own life. They have the free will to do that, and why should anyone else have the right to take that freedom away? -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 11:42 am on July 13, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 2:29 pm on July 13, 2008 I disagree. I mean, you have no right to discriminate against a person for taking their own life. They have the free will to do that, and why should anyone else have the right to take that freedom away? ...what does that have to do with selfishness? It's still more selfish to take your own life than it is to not want someone to take their own life, by definition. -- Posted by nikki at 12:24 pm on July 13, 2008 But it's also selfish to want someone to live in misery to make you happy. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 12:35 pm on July 13, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 3:24 pm on July 13, 2008 But it's also selfish to want someone to live in misery to make you happy. Except we're not talking about that. We're talking about the fact that it's more selfish to not care what anyone else thinks because you feel bad at that moment than to say, "I know it's difficult now, but I also know it will get better and that you will be much more fulfilled if you continue to live." How is the latter selfish? Do you see anything in there about "Don't kill yourself because then I'll be sad"? -- Posted by nikki at 12:41 pm on July 13, 2008 I'm sure suicidal people DO think about what they'll leave behind, and the people they'll hurt. Suicide is an act of courage in that respect - they KNOW they'll cause upset, but they are in that much pain that they go through with ending their lives anyway. I don't believe people have a right to stop people from taking their own life. End of. -- Posted by ignatius at 1:25 pm on July 13, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 11:29 am on July 13, 2008 I disagree. I mean, you have no right to discriminate against a person for taking their own life. They have the free will to do that, and why should anyone else have the right to take that freedom away? Free will ???!!! How can a person with a severe depression may have "free will" for instant? Don't tell me that you think suicidal people are mentally healthy !!! Even the thought of taking their life show they have psychological and/emotional problems , maybe personality disorders or whatever... These people are not having fee will, they are being sick and their mind is controlled by their sickness . The people around  should help them to go to a therapist and seek treatment . -- Posted by nikki at 2:00 pm on July 13, 2008 I'm sorry. That is nonsense. I'm not going to even bother replying, because that is quite disgusting on so many levels for me. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 4:06 pm on July 13, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 3:41 pm on July 13, 2008 I'm sure suicidal people DO think about what they'll leave behind, and the people they'll hurt. Suicide is an act of courage in that respect - they KNOW they'll cause upset, but they are in that much pain that they go through with ending their lives anyway. I don't believe people have a right to stop people from taking their own life. End of. Courage has nothing to do with it. We're talking about whether or not it is selfish to consider your own pain as more important than the pain you'd cause others. We are also not talking about anyone stopping people from taking their own lives. If you think I am, please find me an example from my posts. -- Posted by nikki at 4:56 am on July 14, 2008 Well, I don't believe it to be selfish. Unfair, yes, but a lot of things in life are unfair. If that person feels it is in their best interests to end their life, then how can anyone else pass judgement on whether it is selfish or not? -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:28 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 7:56 am on July 14, 2008 Well, I don't believe it to be selfish. Unfair, yes, but a lot of things in life are unfair. If that person feels it is in their best interests to end their life, then how can anyone else pass judgement on whether it is selfish or not? ...by looking at the definition of the word "selfish?" self·ish   Audio Help   /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sel-fish] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -adjective 1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.   2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself From dictionary.com Regardless of whether it's unfair, courageous, cowardly or fair, committing suicide and being focused solely on your own pain and not the potential pain of others is selfish. Note how I've never said it was bad, wrong or that people shouldn't do it, just that it is selfish, which it is. -- Posted by nikki at 5:31 am on July 14, 2008 Hm, well, that may be, but I just don't think it's a primarily selfish act. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:45 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 8:31 am on July 14, 2008 Hm, well, that may be, but I just don't think it's a primarily selfish act. What isn't selfish about it, by the definition that the dictionary gives? -- Posted by nikki at 5:53 am on July 14, 2008 People thinking of suicide are not rational. If you're thinking about ending your life, you're not going to be looking at anything from a logical viewpoint. Someone, say, who was buying a family car, but bought one to suit their needs more than anyone elses would be selfish. But someone committing suicide isn't thinking logically. They are in that much pain that that's all they feel will stop it. -- Posted by Human Nature at 10:06 am on July 14, 2008 People control their own lives. The families and friends are the selfish ones. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 2:05 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 8:53 am on July 14, 2008 People thinking of suicide are not rational. If you're thinking about ending your life, you're not going to be looking at anything from a logical viewpoint. Someone, say, who was buying a family car, but bought one to suit their needs more than anyone elses would be selfish. But someone committing suicide isn't thinking logically. They are in that much pain that that's all they feel will stop it. I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the "is thinking logically and is still considering himself and his needs and desires more than those of others" as part of the definition. Could you show me where that is? -- Posted by nikki at 2:08 pm on July 14, 2008 I never said it WAS part of any definition, just that because these people are suicidal, then they can't be subjected to the same rules of "Logic" that everyone else is. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 3:48 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 5:08 pm on July 14, 2008 I never said it WAS part of any definition, just that because these people are suicidal, then they can't be subjected to the same rules of "Logic" that everyone else is. Logic has nothing to do with it; selfishness is solely the act of considering your own thoughts, feelings, needs and desires before those of anyone else. By that merit, committing suicide because you want to escape the pain you're in is selfish. Also, point that you seem to be reading a negative implication into the word "selfish." I'm using the word "selfish" in a neutral way here...that they're selfish isn't good or bad. It just is. -- Posted by nikki at 5:15 am on July 15, 2008 I'd agree with that, but I don't believe selfishness is the main reason behind suicide (which I don't think you're arguing, btw). -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 2:10 pm on July 15, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 8:15 am on July 15, 2008 I'd agree with that, but I don't believe selfishness is the main reason behind suicide (which I don't think you're arguing, btw). That would depend on how you're defining selfishness. If you're going by the dictionary definition, it is, in fact, the main reason behind suicide, whether people are mentally ill or not. If you're going by some other definition, well, I have no idea because I don't know your definitions. -- Posted by nikki at 4:00 pm on July 15, 2008 I'm going by the dictionary definition, but I don't believe Suicide is a primarily selfish act. People want to get rid of their pain. That's not selfish. Pages: 1 2  Next