-- Posted by Daleacus at 4:38 am on July 14, 2008 The grant and loan here are based on your household income - it determines how much you get to support yourself and results in those of lower income families getting much more than those from higher ones. Of my friends, most are getting no money to go off to uni with. I'm getting zero. A few are supposedly receiving £100-600 to help. I know some people will rely on their parents, however, if it's the case that a fair number of people are not getting any money off their parents then surely everyone should receive the same amount for doing the same thing? It's not right to give you money based on what your parents have been earning when you're not living with them. I'm in the second-bottom category so get the second-highest amount of money - I'm not complaining. I'm simply curious why everyone isn't given the same amount to live off if they're away from their parents and many/most don't receive financial support reflecting that identified in the income assessment. Is there a reason I've missed? I don't think it should be income assessed, at all. -- Posted by Free 2b Me at 4:39 am on July 14, 2008 'Cos 'they' dont want to pay more than they have to -- Posted by danny240591 at 4:42 am on July 14, 2008 yer its complete bollocks -- Posted by BLUEAUTOMATIC at 4:44 am on July 14, 2008 It's to entice those from working class backgrounds to go to university. -- Posted by Free 2b Me at 4:45 am on July 14, 2008 Sayin this, but some people reeeally are born with a silver spoon in their mouth! My fella's at uni and hes gettin 100% of all money he can cos they're just average, skint ass family. But hes got uni mates who just dont understand it. Hes skint and theyre always saying "cant u just ring ur parents and get some money" - they cant believe tha his parents, like alot! just dont have tha money to give them! So in that sense, it does go to the right people. -- Posted by TheatreMinelli at 4:49 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Daleacus at 12:38 pm on July 14, 2008 The grant and loan here are based on your household income - it determines how much you get to support yourself and results in those of lower income families getting much more than those from higher ones. Of my friends, most are getting no money to go off to uni with. I'm getting zero. A few are supposedly receiving £100-600 to help. I know some people will rely on their parents, however, if it's the case that a fair number of people are not getting any money off their parents then surely everyone should receive the same amount for doing the same thing? It's not right to give you money based on what your parents have been earning when you're not living with them. I'm in the second-bottom category so get the second-highest amount of money - I'm not complaining. I'm simply curious why everyone isn't given the same amount to live off if they're away from their parents and many/most don't receive financial support reflecting that identified in the income assessment. Is there a reason I've missed? I don't think it should be income assessed, at all. If you are not living with your parents then you apply as a independent student....simple. Then you get the full loan and grant and an extra one for being an independent student. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 4:51 am on July 14, 2008 Not all of it is (for loans anyway). There is a defined amount that is not based on income, and some further loan if your income allows it. Maintenance grants are purely income based however I think I find it a huge annoyance, because it doesn't take into account how many siblings you have. Sure my dad might get paid quite well, but I have two sisters, one already at university. -- Posted by Daleacus at 6:59 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theatreminelli at 12:49 pm on July 14, 2008 If you are not living with your parents then you apply as a independent student....simple. Then you get the full loan and grant and an extra one for being an independent student. I'm living with them now but won't be when the Uni term is going on like most people, which makes me dependant on the income assessment for the previous year, which is what it's based on. Isn't it? Quote: from marshmellowman at 12:51 pm on July 14, 2008 Not all of it is (for loans anyway). There is a defined amount that is not based on income, and some further loan if your income allows it. Maintenance grants are purely income based however I think   I find it a huge annoyance, because it doesn't take into account how many siblings you have. Sure my dad might get paid quite well, but I have two sisters, one already at university. The thing the council gave me says that the maintenance grant and maintenance loan are both on sliding scales based on income... and nothing else. Bleh, I don't know. My council aren't known for their clarity, though. *goes to look it up online* Didn't the application booklet thing ask for details of dependants on the persons being assessed? If so, I thought that meant it noted siblings but still I doubt they'd be taken into account anyway - it's the government. Stuff like this is always annoying and unfair, isn't it? -- Posted by marshmellowman at 7:10 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Daleacus at 2:59 pm on July 14, 2008 The thing the council gave me says that the maintenance grant and maintenance loan are both on sliding scales based on income... and nothing else. Bleh, I don't know. My council aren't known for their clarity, though. *goes to look it up online* Didn't the application booklet thing ask for details of dependants on the persons being assessed? If so, I thought that meant it noted siblings but still I doubt they'd be taken into account anyway - it's the government. Stuff like this is always annoying and unfair, isn't it? No, there is a non-income assessed part. I just got my loan approval letter and reply sheet in the post today: The grant comes from your LEA which will be income assessed as it's non-repayable, but the maintenance loan has two parts as shown above. The thing is I'm the one being assessed and no-one depends on me, neither of my sisters do. It didn't ask about whether the person I depend on has any other dependants however (I don't think it did anyway). -- Posted by TheatreMinelli at 7:22 am on July 14, 2008 They messed up my application this year and gave me my loan on non means tested which doesn't even cover half of my rent. I hope they get it sorted out soon or I won't be able to go back to Uni. I come from a super poor family. -- Posted by Daleacus at 7:22 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 3:10 pm on July 14, 2008 No, there is a non-income assessed part. I just got my loan approval letter and reply sheet in the post today:     The grant comes from your LEA which will be income assessed as it's non-repayable, but the maintenance loan has two parts as shown above.   The thing is I'm the one being assessed and no-one depends on me, neither of my sisters do. It didn't ask about whether the person I depend on has any other dependants however (I don't think it did anyway). ah! I see. That's not quite so bad, then. I thought the last section asked for dependants of those named in s.10, and in s.10 you entered your parents names... but, it's possible/probable that I misread that. -- Posted by Daleacus at 7:25 am on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theatreminelli at 3:22 pm on July 14, 2008 They messed up my application this year and gave me my loan on non means tested which doesn't even cover half of my rent. I hope they get it sorted out soon or I won't be able to go back to Uni. I come from a super poor family. Eh, I hope it gets sorted out quickish. *thumbs down* Your mentioning of independancy got me curious, and I've just looked it up properly - it's not that simple. There's a load of criteria to meet including being financially independant for three years prior to going to uni - hahaha, no, not me. Ah well. -- Posted by britishguy at 10:10 pm on July 15, 2008 Both the grant and loan contain a non-income assessed part, which is about 75% of the total and that's available to everyone. The remainder is means tested. The reason for the means testing primarily concerns the tuition fees, D. The reason for that is that universities receive extremely poor funding. Tutors are over assigned, and underpaid. Yes, I took part in the protests that helped to raise their pay  However they are still grossly underfunded and by means testing parents for tuition fees they can get some extra money from those families who can afford it. In those cases, the families have to pay said fees, because they can. Someone mentioned being assessed as an independent student. Now when Louise and I tried this it was impossible because the rubric defined independent as being financially independent of your parents for at least 5 years, which they then lowered to 3 years. Unless you can prove this then you are not considered an independent student (unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years, which they might well have done). Louise and I were lucky however, because once we got married we were able to have our spouse assessed instead of our parents! Which meant that as we were both as poor as each other we got full support. But the thing with the tuition fees sucks. When Louise was assessed, because she comes form a very well off family she was told to pay tuition fees (can't remember how much) and of course her father refused to do so. Also her loan was reduced from the full amount. All this and we were living in the private sector in Brighton, which is expensive, because we needed permanent accommodation. We had to take him to court over paying her money in the end -- Posted by TheatreMinelli at 1:15 am on July 16, 2008 Quote: from britishguy at 6:10 am on July 16, 2008 Both the grant and loan contain a non-income assessed part, which is about 75% of the total and that's available to everyone. The remainder is means tested. The reason for the means testing primarily concerns the tuition fees, D. The reason for that is that universities receive extremely poor funding. Tutors are over assigned, and underpaid. Yes, I took part in the protests that helped to raise their pay However they are still grossly underfunded and by means testing parents for tuition fees they can get some extra money from those families who can afford it. In those cases, the families have to pay said fees, because they can. Someone mentioned being assessed as an independent student. Now when Louise and I tried this it was impossible because the rubric defined independent as being financially independent of your parents for at least 5 years, which they then lowered to 3 years. Unless you can prove this then you are not considered an independent student (unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years, which they might well have done). Louise and I were lucky however, because once we got married we were able to have our spouse assessed instead of our parents! Which meant that as we were both as poor as each other we got full support. But the thing with the tuition fees sucks. When Louise was assessed, because she comes form a very well off family she was told to pay tuition fees (can't remember how much) and of course her father refused to do so. Also her loan was reduced from the full amount. All this and we were living in the private sector in Brighton, which is expensive, because we needed permanent accommodation. We had to take him to court over paying her money in the end Your tuition fees are not actually income asessed any more ever since the top up fee scheme came in. Now basically everyone pays 3000 pounds or thereabouts a year for tuition but you don't pay it back until you are earning after Uni. It's just loan and grant apps that are now income asessed. -- Posted by Daleacus at 11:51 am on July 16, 2008 Quote: from britishguy at 6:10 am on July 16, 2008 Both the grant and loan contain a non-income assessed part, which is about 75% of the total and that's available to everyone. The remainder is means tested. Still, that last bit represents a lot of money (to me, at least) and, to go back to the original point, is surely unfair if many people aren't recieving the financial support which the assessment thinks they should from their guardians. It's just not possible for most parents to send their kids off with money. It stinks that any of the thing is means tested. If I'm going to get a degree and help the economy in some way by getting a reputable job at the end of it (unlikely though as degrees are as common as salt now) then, to be frank, I expect to recieve the money I need to live and not be in debt for years and years after. The entire system is ridiculous, really. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 12:26 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from theatreminelli at 4:49 am on July 14, 2008 If you are not living with your parents then you apply as a independent student....simple. Then you get the full loan and grant and an extra one for being an independent student. Do they do that in English?  Because I've lived this entire year in a different country from my parents.  I pay my own bills, have my own job, and support myself.  Until I'm 24, I cannot be considered legally independent, and all my financial aid forms consider my parents income. In my case, my parents don't make that much, so I did get a great deal of financing, I also am fortunate enough to have my dad paying for my college.  But unless I'm in the army, married, or over 24 (there are a few other things that you could do), I am still legally dependent on my parents, and they will continue to request their tax information. I think it sucks... but I suppose it's based on the fact that if the parents have a lot of money, then the childrent will be paid for.  Of course, not always the case, and sometimes, if you present an extreme circumstance, they may take it into consideration. -- Posted by Daleacus at 12:29 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 8:26 pm on July 16, 2008 if you present an extreme circumstance, they may take it into consideration. In this country, I highly doubt that. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 12:32 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from Daleacus at 12:29 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from Just Waiting Here at 8:26 pm on July 16, 2008 if you present an extreme circumstance, they may take it into consideration. In this country, I highly doubt that. But you can get something for being independent...?  That's better than nothing, right?  I even tried to say I was instate because I lived here for one year, but since I'm not living with my parents, it doesn't count until two years.  I've been living with my sister (10 years older than me, who's lived here for ten years), and they say just because my parents aren't here, I have to pay an extra 20000 more than all the instate students.  Doesn't matter if you're with aunt, uncle, grandparents, siblings... she told me it only mattered with my parents -__-;.  And this isn't even for financial aid, it's regarding how much tuition I'm expected to pay :(. -- Posted by Daleacus at 1:09 pm on July 16, 2008 Oh, yeah, offering the stuff we have is beneficial, I was half-heartedly poking fun at the fact that we don't have individual circumstances any more, just large bunches of people treated as identical units. =P -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 1:16 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from Daleacus at 1:09 pm on July 16, 2008 Oh, yeah, offering the stuff we have is beneficial, I was half-heartedly poking fun at the fact that we don't have individual circumstances any more, just large bunches of people treated as identical units. =P Yeah... but when you think about it, what else is there to do?  I mean, everyone is different, and if they gave leniency, then those that DO have the money with parents support will lie about it anyway.  It sucks, but in a sense, it makes the most sense to generalize... :( -- Posted by Daleacus at 1:21 pm on July 16, 2008 I know it makes some sense logically but by the same rules I'd say such things have many shortcomings. Emotionally I can never agree with grouping people, either. -- Posted by Just Waiting Here at 1:32 pm on July 16, 2008 Quote: from Daleacus at 1:21 pm on July 16, 2008 I know it makes some sense logically but by the same rules I'd say such things have many shortcomings. Emotionally I can never agree with grouping people, either. Yeah, I completely agree.  The reason I'm still not instate is because they think I'll move after four years of being here, or that I'm not planning on staying.  I can't tell them, "I promise not to leave right after" (I honestly don't know yet, but the point is, I'm not planning on leaving at this point).  But regardless, they just have to follow the set standard.  I have to pay over 10 000 more per semester because of this.  Until finally next year, I'll qualify for not having to pay that fee...  Sucks, but that's life I suppose :(.  It would be idealistic to think that bigger companies and large governments really thought about people as individuals... but sadly, it's too big of a society to do that.