Pages: 1 2 3  Next -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:33 pm on July 14, 2008 If marriage is a Christian and not a secular arrangement, then surely only Christians wed according to Christian standards or by Christian ceremony and in accordance with the practice of the Christian community can have marital sex. If sex is a sin outside of marriage, and only allowed within, doesn't that mean that all non-Christians are having unmarried sex? Is that acceptable to Jehovah, by Christian standards? Is it possible for anyone but Christians to be married and have sex, in Jehovah's eyes? -- Posted by theboxman at 2:34 pm on July 14, 2008 marriage is not a Christian only covenant. There is the flaw in your thinking -- Posted by Bonolove at 2:35 pm on July 14, 2008 he said "Go forth and multiply" meaning, "Everyone do it" not just Christians... -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:35 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 2:34 pm on July 14, 2008 marriage is not a Christian only covenant. There is the flaw in your thinking Are you speaking from your godless opinions or from a Christian perspective? Obviously other cultures and religions have marriage. That's irrelevant. -- Posted by whips handcuffs at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 does it matter? arent all nonchristians supposed to go to hell anyway? -- Posted by iamsandy at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 christians shouldn't have sex forever the bible says sex is evil -- Posted by HelHound at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008  Marriage is marriage no matter what religion. It may have been origanly Christians. But if someone has said their vows and lived up to them, then no it isn't un married sex. -- Posted by Fauna at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 of course sex within a non-Christian marriage would be considered sinful in the eyes of a Christian God, as He wouldn't accept that marriage as a religious rite. bizarre question :S -- Posted by redhotchilis64 at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 You can be married without abiding to the Christian ceremony. You don't have to be Christian to live a fucking life. Marriage is a legal bonding. You can do it in a court. -- Posted by KweenZ at 2:39 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 of course sex within a non-Christian marriage would be considered sinful in the eyes of a Christian God, as He wouldn't accept that marriage as a religious rite.   bizarre question :S exactly -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:39 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from redhotchilis64 at 2:36 pm on July 14, 2008 You can be married without abiding to the Christian ceremony. You don't have to be Christian to live a fucking life. Marriage is a legal bonding. You can do it in a court. I trust you chose the last option, Mr. Miss-the-fucking-point. Obviously marriage is not exclusively Christian. We're talking about sin in a Christian context. Does Jehovah recognize non-Christian marriage or not? Why? Can you find scripture to support your position? -- Posted by Iaintmarchingnemore at 2:39 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 2:35 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 2:34 pm on July 14, 2008 marriage is not a Christian only covenant. There is the flaw in your thinking Are you speaking from your godless opinions or from a Christian perspective? Obviously other cultures and religions have marriage. That's irrelevant. Well what hes saying is that marriage didnt derive from christianity, when in fact it dates all the way back to the greeks. -- Posted by xoxo1234 at 2:39 pm on July 14, 2008 Lulz, guess not. But then again, all non-Christians are going to hell anyway for just that reason... so who cares anyway? Screw it all if we're already there. xD It's gonna be a partaaay! Although actually, scratch that. They'd probably like for us to bring more non-Christian babies into the world. Then they'll have more people to convert. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:41 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Iaintmarchingnemore at 2:39 pm on July 14, 2008 Well what hes saying is that marriage didnt derive from christianity, when in fact it dates all the way back to the greeks. No fucking kidding. Are we talking about the origins of marriage? Please explain what you think this post is about. I'll save you the time. It's about sin, sex and marriage from a Christian perspective, not about marriage in general. And what are you talking about, "dates back to the greeks?" You've got an incredibly limited perspective if you think the Greeks invented marriage. -- Posted by Fauna at 2:42 pm on July 14, 2008 I'm really not getting how this is a question under debate at all. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:44 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:42 pm on July 14, 2008 I'm really not getting how this is a question under debate at all. American Christians have a vendetta out over gay marriage being an offense to God when realistically, according to Christian doctrine, they should be railing against non-Christians being allowed to marry with exactly as much fervor. It's partly about that, but I don't want this turning into a gay marriage debate, because it's not supposed to be. -- Posted by Fauna at 2:46 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 10:44 pm on July 14, 2008 American Christians have a vendetta out over gay marriage being an offense to God when realistically, according to Christian doctrine, they should be railing against non-Christians being allowed to marry with exactly as much fervor. It's partly about that, but I don't want this turning into a gay marriage debate, because it's not supposed to be. but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships? -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:49 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:46 pm on July 14, 2008 but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships? More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw). Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue? -- Posted by Baron Samedi at 2:50 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:46 pm on July 14, 2008 but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships? Christians.  They say if we do that over here it'll open the door to gay marriages. But more on topic...Don't they think all non-christians going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity anyway?  What does it matter if they're having sex or not? -- Posted by theboxman at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 2:35 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 2:34 pm on July 14, 2008 marriage is not a Christian only covenant. There is the flaw in your thinking Are you speaking from your godless opinions or from a Christian perspective? Obviously other cultures and religions have marriage. That's irrelevant. The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement.  Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god. Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around -- Posted by Fauna at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 10:49 pm on July 14, 2008 More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw). Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue? no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church. in your second paragraph, you are confusing "marriage" with "Christian marriage". I'm sure a fundamentalist christian would have as much of a problem with a Hindu couple wanting to marry within the Christian Church without conversion (an unlikely situation, but your comparison), too. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:53 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Baron Samedi at 2:50 pm on July 14, 2008 But more on topic...Don't they think all non-christians going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity anyway?  What does it matter if they're having sex or not? I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same thing, which is why they're so hell-bent on denying it to gays but don't even think that straight non-Christians are living in sin just as horrible. -- Posted by theboxman at 2:56 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 10:49 pm on July 14, 2008  More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw).    Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue? no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church.   in your second paragraph, you are confusing "marriage" with "Christian marriage". I'm sure a fundamentalist christian would have as much of a problem with a Hindu couple wanting to marry within the Christian Church without conversion (an unlikely situation, but your comparison), too. I think you are confused.  If your statement where true then Christians would be fine with gay marriage as they could reserve the right not to have people marry in their church.  But they are against any kind of gay marriage. Which realize 50% of marriages fail in this country so why not let gay people marry they deserve to suffer just like the rest of us -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:56 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church. And here's an Anglaise lecturing me on what the issue is across the Atlantic. No. Those rallying against gay marriage are not uniformly contesting the idea that gays should be married in church, but that the government should offer them marriage in a legal context at all. It is an issue in their minds, that legal and Christian marriage is the same, not in mine.   -- Posted by Shaknbake at 2:58 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement.  Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god. Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around Christianity does not acknowledge the validity of other religious traditions (with the occasional exception of Judaism). If you're not Christian, you can't be married in Jehovah's mind, even if Christians adopted marital ceremonies from earlier groups. -- Posted by theboxman at 3:00 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 2:58 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008 The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement. Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god.   Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around Christianity does not acknowledge the validity of other religious traditions (with the occasional exception of Judaism). If you're not Christian, you can't be married in Jehovah's mind, even if Christians adopted marital ceremonies from earlier groups. But god recognizes the other religions and it is his opinion that counts -- Posted by Fauna at 3:01 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 10:56 pm on July 14, 2008 And here's an Anglaise lecturing me on what the issue is across the Atlantic. No. my nationality prevents me from getting involved in this discussion? what bollocks, this is an issue affecting everyone worldwide, just because I'm not American doesn't mean I'm ignorant to American issues. What a weak argument. Those rallying against gay marriage are not uniformly contesting the idea that gays should be married in church, but that the government should offer them marriage in a legal context at all. It is an issue in their minds, that legal and Christian marriage is the same, not in mine. why are you getting this information from? In a previous post you said, "I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same things" forgive me if I don't think your "feeling" about other people's "impressions" is that much unshakeable evidence. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 3:03 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 3:00 pm on July 14, 2008 But god recognizes the other religions and it is his opinion that counts It's good to know you're Jehovah's personal mouthpiece. This is about Jehovah, the Christian god, and not some abstract god you invented in your own mind. -- Posted by Fauna at 3:05 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from theboxman at 10:56 pm on July 14, 2008 I think you are confused. If your statement where true then Christians would be fine with gay marriage as they could reserve the right not to have people marry in their church. But they are against any kind of gay marriage. Which realize 50% of marriages fail in this country so why not let gay people marry they deserve to suffer just like the rest of us the issue with gay marriage is that Christian marriage, as defined by Christian doctrine (in some interpretations) limits the union to one man and one woman. but a marriage outside of the Christian Church isn't under the jurisdiction of this doctrine so how can anyone have a logical problem with it? -- Posted by Shaknbake at 3:08 pm on July 14, 2008 Quote: from Fauna at 3:01 pm on July 14, 2008 my nationality prevents me from getting involved in this discussion? what bollocks, this is an issue affecting everyone worldwide, just because I'm not American doesn't mean I'm ignorant to American issues. What a weak argument. You mustn't spend a lot of time listening to American voices on the issue then, because it is not solely fundamentalists and not solely Christians or the religious who oppose gay marriage. The most vocal and influential movements contre do not make a distinction between religious and legal marriage. This fact is self evident in listening to them speak.   why are you getting this information from? In a previous post you said, "I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same things" forgive me if I don't think your "feeling" about other people's "impressions" is that much unshakeable evidence. Listening to the statements of those who oppose homosexual marriage. They make no distinction between legal marriage in America and Christian traditional marriage. I use the word feeling lightly. I know that that's how these people feel; you can see it clearly in any debate on gay marriage, here or elsewhere. I do not know the situation in England, but in the US the sentiment is universally anti gay-marriage, and not anti gay-marriage in a Christian context/by Christian ceremony. Pages: 1 2 3  Next