-- Posted by playboyfreak456 at 9:54 pm on July 27, 2008 These are all just my own opinions and observations, don't take offensively: I notice that only whites seem to see each other as individuals. Let me explain...I notice that blacks and latinos seem to see themselves as a "community", but you never hear whites call themselves a community and if they do, it is normally skinheads. Also black and latinos automatically think if they see someone else that is of their race, they should be cut some slack. Such as when a black cop pulls over a black person, they expect to be given some leniency. I think this whole "seeing ourselves as one big group", is our downfall. If one us becomes sucessful, we can't honestly expect to give back to our whole community. Also if one person does something the community doesn't normally do (for instance black people listening to rock) ,the community thinks your trying to be something your not. This in turn leads to a vicious cycle of never be able to truly be individuals. Sorry if this is kind of confusing but  Discuss. P.S I am totally aware that I left out asains and middle easterns and maybe some other races,  but I don't really know enough of you guys to make an observation like this. -- Posted by TwitchyFish at 9:57 pm on July 27, 2008 Hmmm... interesting. I definitely see what your saying. You always hear Native Americans calling each other "Brother" and stuff. Good observation! -- Posted by Alabamarama at 9:57 pm on July 27, 2008 Now that I think about it, I see what you're talking about. Good point :) -- Posted by strangerinznight at 9:58 pm on July 27, 2008 im asian and middle eastern and i see what your saying about a certain nationality helping out their own people. yeah i dont think i notice it with white ppl -- Posted by ReelStreetlights at 9:58 pm on July 27, 2008 Group mentality leads to ignorance. The only way things will get better is if people understand that you are not bound by your race or upbringing and that it is okay to be an individual. Unfortunately this doesn't happen because, especially in this country, there is a terrible history of minority oppression and racism. So no matter how "equal" people are under the laws, that history will always be there. It will take a long time for people of all colors to be completely ignorant of each other's differences. -- Posted by Sokrates at 10:01 pm on July 27, 2008 America is too individualistic in my opinion especially the caucasians (from my observation). They tend to have weaker communal/family values. They kick out their children at 18 more often and they send their parents to retirement homes. From my experience, latinos and blacks tend to let their elders stay in their home more. Most individuals nowadays are arrogant assholes/smartasses. We have enough of those thank you. -- Posted by factboy01 at 10:04 pm on July 27, 2008 a minor Irony in my situation. I am a native american, I only help my cousins thats all. If it comes down to other natives who treat me like crap it becomes a verbal brawl..Yeah so me and my other friend usually ignore most natives because they say we act white, and I won the argument against them. I hope they shut up for good. LOL! -- Posted by Bud2400 at 10:46 pm on July 27, 2008 I personally think that this whole issue relies entirely upon how the group, as a whole, is treated by society. Blacks, no matter how lighter skinned or darker skinned the person, or how skilled or unskilled the person, were always subject to the same sort of treatment by society in general - the same discriminatory laws, the same kind of segregation, etc. This kind of treatment did not allow for any such individuality to be considered, for it was believed that a nigger is a nigger - they're all the same. Blacks suffered the same conditions together, and this resulted in a broader understanding among blacks as a whole, creating the black community. Thus black people are more inclined to treat others blacks as a part of them, as if they were family in a sense as they identify themselves with other blacks and feel that they are inherently the same. In a sense, it was through persecution and oppression that united black people. Whites, on the other hand, have not suffered this same kind of treatment. As whites have been in control of their societies, they were always able to put themselves as the ones in power, thus there were no persecutions or oppression of whites (although some white subgroups, such as Slavs, the Irish, or the Italians were to some degree, which is why you see people identifying with these white subgroups more strongly than others). Without the persecution and oppression, whites are not suffering the same kind of conditions, and are, in fact, competing against each other to actually be the ones in power! Given that Europe itself is a very fractured subcontinent, filled with many different nations, white people never did identify themselves with other white people in the sense the blacks of today do, and as they do not suffer the same kinds of conditions, individuality flourishes and mutual understanding is discouraged. Thus white people are more inclined to treat other white people as individuals for they perceive them as inherently different from they are. As for blacks, this kind of group mentality can hinder the individual. Because the individual is working for the collective (the black community at large), the individual must ignore his or her own pursuits if they contradict that of the black community's (which I find is generally unity ["brotherhood"] first and foremost, which individuality would discourage). If the black person decides to assert their own individuality before that of the black community's, then that person is essentially ostracized from that community as an "oreo" or whatever derogatory terms you can think of. This discourages thinking outside of the box and innovation (which is key for entrepreneurship), and in the end, hinders individual success. It is essential that the black community must remain strong and united, for it cannot exist otherwise, and in order to do this, they emphasize their treatment by whites throughout history and examples of racism against blacks in the news and contemporary society to reinforce the idea that blacks are one people suffering from the same thing. Though it does this at the expense of many black peoples' individualities.  The conditions of racism today against blacks varies much more than in the past because it is far more individualized because discriminatory laws are basically gone (laws necessarily must define a group of people as one and treat them as one - individuals treating other individuals don't), which allows far more room for individuality to flourish, and the black community will do all it can to try to unite it all into one single collective view.  Unity is key here. Moreover, associating themselves with the black community at large, blacks as a result share a same sort of mentality. The black community must define itself differently from whites, and as a result, what is "white" is defined as not "black" and what is "black" is not "white.". As a result, they view white people, and usually other races, as inherently different from them and that mutual understanding between the two races cannot exist. This, in the end, promotes self-segregation, which is why you generally see blacks as one of the more "closed" groups in society to outsiders. -- Posted by playboyfreak456 at 11:13 am on July 28, 2008 Quote: from Bud2400 at 1:46 am on July 28, 2008 I personally think that this whole issue relies entirely upon how the group, as a whole, is treated by society. Blacks, no matter how lighter skinned or darker skinned the person, or how skilled or unskilled the person, were always subject to the same sort of treatment by society in general - the same discriminatory laws, the same kind of segregation, etc.  This kind of treatment did not allow for any such individuality to be considered, for it was believed that a nigger is a nigger - they're all the same.  Blacks suffered the same conditions together, and this resulted in a broader understanding among blacks as a whole, creating the black community.  Thus black people are more inclined to treat others blacks as a part of them, as if they were family in a sense as they identify themselves with other blacks and feel that they are inherently the same.  In a sense, it was through persecution and oppression that united black people. Whites, on the other hand, have not suffered this same kind of treatment.  As whites have been in control of their societies, they were always able to put themselves as the ones in power, thus there were no persecutions or oppression of whites (although some white subgroups, such as Slavs, the Irish, or the Italians were to some degree, which is why you see people identifying with these white subgroups more strongly than others).   Without the persecution and oppression, whites are not suffering the same kind of conditions, and are, in fact, competing against each other to actually be the ones in power!  Given that Europe itself is a very fractured subcontinent, filled with many different nations, white people never did identify themselves with other white people in the sense the blacks of today do, and as they do not suffer the same kinds of conditions, individuality flourishes and mutual understanding is discouraged.  Thus white people are more inclined to treat other white people as individuals for they perceive them as inherently different from they are. As for blacks, this kind of group mentality can hinder the individual.  Because the individual is working for the collective (the black community at large), the individual must ignore his or her own pursuits if they contradict that of the black community's (which I find is generally unity ["brotherhood"] first and foremost, which individuality would discourage).  If the black person decides to assert their own individuality before that of the black community's, then that person is essentially ostracized from that community as an "oreo" or whatever derogatory terms you can think of.  This discourages thinking outside of the box and innovation (which is key for entrepreneurship), and in the end, hinders individual success. It is essential that the black community must remain strong and united, for it cannot exist otherwise, and in order to do this, they emphasize their treatment by whites throughout history and examples of racism against blacks in the news and contemporary society to reinforce the idea that blacks are one people suffering from the same thing.  Though it does this at the expense of many black peoples' individualities.  The conditions of racism today against blacks varies much more than in the past because it is far more individualized because discriminatory laws are basically gone (laws necessarily must define a group of people as one and treat them as one - individuals treating other individuals don't), which allows far more room for individuality to flourish, and the black community will do all it can to try to unite it all into one single collective view.  Unity is key here. Moreover, associating themselves with the black community at large, blacks as a result share a same sort of mentality.  The black community must define itself differently from whites, and as a result, what is "white" is defined as not "black" and what is "black" is not "white.".  As a result, they view white people, and usually other races, as inherently different from them and that mutual understanding between the two races cannot exist.  This, in the end, promotes self-segregation, which is why you generally see blacks as one of the more "closed" groups in society to outsiders. That was quite insightful, but I do see more and more blacks seeing themselves as individuals and not identifying themselves as black stereotypes. I'm seeing more blacks breaking the mold and being individuals. Take for example Pharrell  who has made alot of rock songs, not something you would see many black people doing. Also Lupe Fiasco made the song "Kick Push" and in the video you see only black people skateboarding, again, not that many blacks skate. -- Posted by Headst0ck at 11:15 am on July 28, 2008 That's just one of the pros of being the majority in a certain area. Even in a neighborhood/community where the majority is black, if you have a small white group they are all viewed in the same way. -- Posted by Bud2400 at 8:17 pm on July 28, 2008 Quote: from playboyfreak456 at 11:13 am on July 28, 2008 That was quite insightful, but I do see more and more blacks seeing themselves as individuals and not identifying themselves as black stereotypes. I'm seeing more blacks breaking the mold and being individuals. Take for example Pharrell who has made alot of rock songs, not something you would see many black people doing. Also Lupe Fiasco made the song "Kick Push" and in the video you see only black people skateboarding, again, not that many blacks skate. Indeed. I'm not saying that every black person follows exactly what I described, mind you. In fact, I think this is bound to happen - as racist laws disappear and any kind of racism still remaining becomes individualized, those suffering from it are bound to feel more individualistic in their suffering as their cases won't apply in the same way to everyone they consider black. As a result, you see blacks breaking what's traditionally defined as "black" and doing new and different things, for no longer do they feel the same unity and being bound to the group in a strict and traditional way. Personally, I think this is a great thing. However, at the same time, blacks, as a whole, still have that group mentality far more than most other races. This is largely perpetuated through the black community's attempt to make blacks feel that all of society hates black people and that they're still suffering from racism. Racists will always be out there, but to be quite honest, it's hardly as pervasive or prejudiced as they would have you believe. As I explained in this thread, most racism directed against blacks comes in the form of stereotypes, which is largely the result of a lack of integration (ie. understanding) between whites and blacks - which, ironically, makes blacks feel that they're under attack and feel the need to self-segregate themselves further. Rather than promote understanding, the black community will promote separatism from the whites both physically and culturally - for they know that true integration of whites and blacks would be the downfall of the black community. -- Posted by playboyfreak456 at 6:25 pm on July 30, 2008 Quote: from Bud2400 at 11:17 pm on July 28, 2008 Quote: from playboyfreak456 at 11:13 am on July 28, 2008 That was quite insightful, but I do see more and more blacks seeing themselves as individuals and not identifying themselves as black stereotypes. I'm seeing more blacks breaking the mold and being individuals. Take for example Pharrell  who has made alot of rock songs, not something you would see many black people doing. Also Lupe Fiasco made the song "Kick Push" and in the video you see only black people skateboarding, again, not that many blacks skate.   Indeed.  I'm not saying that every black person follows exactly what I described, mind you.  In fact, I think this is bound to happen - as racist laws disappear and any kind of racism still remaining becomes individualized, those suffering from it are bound to feel more individualistic in their suffering as their cases won't apply in the same way to everyone they consider black.  As a result, you see blacks breaking what's traditionally defined as "black" and doing new and different things, for no longer do they feel the same unity and being bound to the group in a strict and traditional way.  Personally, I think this is a great thing. However, at the same time, blacks, as a whole, still have that group mentality far more than most other races.  This is largely perpetuated through the black community's attempt to make blacks feel that all of society hates black people and that they're still suffering from racism.  Racists will always be out there, but to be quite honest, it's hardly as pervasive or prejudiced as they would have you believe.  As I explained in this thread, most racism directed against blacks comes in the form of stereotypes, which is largely the result of a lack of integration (ie. understanding) between whites and blacks - which, ironically, makes blacks feel that they're under attack and feel the need to self-segregate themselves further.  Rather than promote understanding, the black community will promote separatism from the whites both physically and culturally - for they know that true integration of whites and blacks would be the downfall of the black community. True True. Once again, very insightful. -- Posted by babygurl 2008 at 11:51 am on July 31, 2008 Yeah I unerstand what your saying