-- Posted by newman at 8:29 am on July 31, 2008 I have faith that Jesus is our Savior. That's not refusing to believe the truth.  Those who don't believe in Him have faith that He wasn't out Savior.  See how that works? -- Posted by stargazer1 at 8:30 am on July 31, 2008 * Claps * -- Posted by Toyah at 8:30 am on July 31, 2008 whats your point? -- Posted by greenapple at 8:30 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from stargazer1 at 8:30 am on July 31, 2008 * Claps * this^ -- Posted by newman at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Toyah at 8:30 am on July 31, 2008 whats your point? My point is the earlier topic is BS. -- Posted by BrikiXD at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Bravo :D <3 -- Posted by MiNNiCK at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith" -- Posted by SpM at 8:32 am on July 31, 2008 I don't have faith that Jesus isn't the Son of God, I just don't have an active belief that he is. I acknowledge that he could be. -- Posted by newman at 8:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith" But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist. -- Posted by The Stranger at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 I believe the same way newman! -- Posted by newman at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from derek08 at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 I believe the same way newman! High-five! -- Posted by MiNNiCK at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith" But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist. I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such. You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind. -- Posted by newman at 8:37 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"    But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist. I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.   You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind. Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing. You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different? -- Posted by dark eric at 8:39 am on July 31, 2008 I dont see the point in having faith There is no proof that Jesus was anything supernatural so I don't think he was And If God can forgive murderers, surely he can forgive me for not believing in him -- Posted by MiNNiCK at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"     But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.    I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.    You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind. Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing. You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different? I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives. And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss. -- Posted by newman at 8:42 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"        But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.     I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.       You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.    Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.    You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different? I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.   And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss. If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life. -- Posted by MiNNiCK at 8:46 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:42 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"         But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.        I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.        You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.     Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.     You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different?    I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.    And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss. If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life. So, in retrospect, I can be happy without faith. Therefore, those trying to force faith (not pointing fingers, speaking rhetorically here) should see that I'm happy without it -- Posted by MindArtist at 8:46 am on July 31, 2008 I don't see a point here -- Posted by newman at 8:49 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:46 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:42 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:40 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:37 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:35 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 11:33 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from Minnick at 8:31 am on July 31, 2008 Faith is an easy way to give you belief in something that doesn't exist, yet it makes you feel better about the life you live...since you have "faith"            But we don't KNOW that it exists or not, we have faith in it and believe in it.  YOU have faith that it doesn't exist.         I find it foolish to have faith in something just to justify living as such.           You say I have faith he doesn't exist...but when I think of faith, I associate it with the strong belief, the unnerving belief in a high being. I don't go by the dictionary terminology because quite frankly, I don't see it fitting as I'm seeing the situation in my mind.        Why do you think we all just live for what we have faith in?  I can believe He is our Savior but I don't need to live my life based on that little thing.        You have STRONG and UNNERVING belief that it is not true.  How is that any different?     I see your point. I'm directly relating the situation to those people who do let it seem to stitch the very fabric of their lives.       And who says I'm that strong about believing he doesn't exist? I have my reasons for not believing in him. It's a troublesome concept that I don't wish to discuss.    If people are happy with their faith, just let them be.  Happiness is our ultimate goal in life. So, in retrospect, I can be happy without faith. Therefore, those trying to force faith (not pointing fingers, speaking rhetorically here) should see that I'm happy without it Just clarifying what faith is :) -- Posted by SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008 Just clarifying what faith is :) And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such. -- Posted by newman at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008 Just clarifying what faith is :) And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such. What? -- Posted by SpM at 8:53 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:52 pm on July 31, 2008 Quote: from SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008 Just clarifying what faith is :)    And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such. What? Please demonstrate that all non-believers must have faith that Jesus is not our Saviour. -- Posted by newman at 8:56 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from SpM at 8:53 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:52 pm on July 31, 2008 Quote: from SpM at 8:52 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:49 pm on July 31, 2008 Just clarifying what faith is :)     And yet you still haven't demonstrated that a non-believer must have it in order to be such.    What? Please demonstrate that all non-believers must have faith that Jesus is not our Saviour. Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc;  loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son. -- Posted by SpM at 9:01 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:56 pm on July 31, 2008 Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc; loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son. faith (fāth) pronunciation faith n.  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.  3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. 4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. 5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.  6. A set of principles or beliefs. Firstly, when anyone refers to faith in a religious context, it is perfectly clear they are referring to one of the highlighted definitions (generally the 2nd), and pretending otherwise is misleading and juvenile. Secondly, no I do not have complete confidence that Jesus is not the Son of God. I simply have no reason to believe he is. -- Posted by newman at 9:08 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from SpM at 9:01 am on July 31, 2008 Quote: from newman at 4:56 pm on July 31, 2008 Faith: complete confidence in a person or plan etc;  loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person;   If you have "complete confidence" that Jesus was not God's son, that is FAITH that He was not God's son. faith (fāth) pronunciation   faith n.  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.  2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.  3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. 4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. 5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.  6. A set of principles or beliefs. Firstly, when anyone refers to faith in a religious context, it is perfectly clear they are referring to one of the highlighted definitions (generally the 2nd), and pretending otherwise is misleading and juvenile. Secondly, no I do not have complete confidence that Jesus is not the Son of God. I simply have no reason to believe he is. You can use the definitions I found for both of the scenarios.  I have faith, that Jesus was the Son of God, that doesn't necessarily mean it's religious faith, religion just happens to be the subject we're talking about.  If I have faith that my friend is not lying to me, that's not religious. Is there ANY proof that Jesus wasn't the Son of God?  Nope.  You don't need to believe He was. I guess if you don't believe in it strongly, you just have no faith whatsoever.  If you absolutely insist that He was not the son of God, then yeah, that's faith that he wasn't.