LiveWire Peer Support NetworkPrintable Version of Topic "Age appropriate content in topics"
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-- Posted by Forever Angel at 3:30 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 In a recent topic here concerning avatars and images, a mod had this to say: I wonder why it's only images that are considered inappropriate. Some topics contain language that would make a sailor blush, yet they're given a free pass. No one even thinks twice about them. That mod continued: I understand the meaning of the phrase, "A picture is worth a thousand words" but if all the pics are censored and the thousand words still exist, what's the difference? How many glances would be necessary before the parent of a 13 year old said, "Enough, no more LiveWire for you"? There is a guideline covering this, but it's so general and broad as to be meaningless. I won't state that it's never happened, but I've never seen a post deleted because of language. But I have seen pictures disappear and be denied.
-- Posted by jamesish at 3:31 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Totally agree. I see "excessive vulgar language" as a report reason and I doubt anyone has ever used it.
-- Posted by greatescape at 3:31 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 I agree that the image guidelines are a bit ridiculous.
-- Posted by pujolsfan at 3:32 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 I agree, the language defanitley needs to be cleaned up. there just isnt any reason for it
-- Posted by HatesYou at 3:32 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 College Forum = Not 13.
-- Posted by hithere at 3:34 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 who's really to determine what's "appropriate" for other people's kids anyways, other than the law? i always thought that idea was a bit ridiculous. just let people do what they want in this respect i guess that the idea is that in an ideal world the site's content would be completely "appropriate" without hindering discussion. the site is based on posts and not avatars, and the site can be made more "appropriate" without hindering discussion by censoring avatars, so that's a step that can be taken that still doesn't cause a huge disruption in the way the site is supposed to function.
-- Posted by jamesish at 3:36 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 I did delete my images that had "fuck, shit, sammy hagar" in them. But thats not really fair.
-- Posted by CaliKevin at 3:38 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from HatesYou at 3:32 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Tech forum = Retirement community.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 3:39 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from hithere at 5:34 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 I don't really care what is considered appropriate, but whatever it is, should be enforced across the board, not just aimed at one particular segment.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 3:53 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from jamesish at 5:31 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 My point would be, what or who determines "excessive"?
-- Posted by iconoclast at 4:06 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 i think we should just let kids be exposed to whatever, itll happen eventually anyway, fuck innocence
-- Posted by jamesish at 4:15 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:53 pm on Aug. 10, 2008
We, the reporters, could use sense and nondiscrimination to report these people. Whether they're new people or old members. There should be no double standards. And just hope a moderator agrees. The fact is the Mods will ultimately decide what is right. That isn't fair sometimes but we as the casual members can only do but so much. We can only bring the issue up.
-- Posted by major at 4:38 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 the thirteen year old reasoning is silly, but it's the only reasoning we can apply to the rule that has stood in place and that we ourselves can't change. david said he doesn't want underwear, we don't allow underwear, david removed the censoring system so apparently he's okay for that. members want a "why" so that's the why.
-- Posted by iconoclast at 4:41 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 so justify bullshit with more bullshit lets just say david is an idiot
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 4:49 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from Major at 6:38 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 My point is more to the language. If we won't allow underwear (I've seen my dad around the house in his underwear all my life), why do we allow "fuck" (I've never heard my dad say that word)? We can't put it in our signatures, or if customizable, in our rank... why are we allowed to put it in our topic titles and replies? Isn't this double standard a little hypocritical?
-- Posted by major at 4:50 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 because you can opt out of a thread marked explicit, not someone's ranking or signature.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 4:54 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from Major at 6:50 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 The word "shave" makes a thread 'explicit'. Any number of innocent (in and of themselves) words will do that. And still, that is no guarantee that a 13 year old will avoid the topic unless the parent is 'over the shoulder'. Unless there is a way to prevent, not discourage, such behavior, it's useless.
-- Posted by iconoclast at 4:56 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 "do you shave down there" doesnt sound so innocent to me
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 5:01 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 6:56 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 I recently saw a topic about shaving one's neck without a mirror. And I've seen several guys asking about the ages of others about when they started having to shave. And girls do discuss shaving their legs and what we use. The title doesn't always describe what the topic is about and JUST the word shave sets the 'explicit' flag.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 5:09 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Oh, and Major, how do you keep 13 year olds from seeing a topic with "fuck" in the title? There is one just exited the the fresh topics list with the title "fuckiin hilarious... " that is not (as of when I saw it) marked 'explicit'.
-- Posted by iconoclast at 5:11 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:01 pm on Aug. 10, 2008
thats not modest youre posting depictions of showing skin like legs, hair, etc its suppsoed to be covered with a veil
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 5:44 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 7:11 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Hmm, LW governed by Sharia law, interesting.
-- Posted by iconoclast at 6:01 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 Quote: from Forever Angel at 8:44 pm on Aug. 10, 2008 allah'u akhbar
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 1:07 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 Quote: from Major at 6:50 pm on Aug. 10, 2008
A good example of what I was talking about. How do you 'opt out' when the title of the thread is pure profanity? edit: Well, that topic was deleted(?), first time I've ever seen that. But the title was "Fuckity, fuckity, fuck" and was in the Political forum.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 2:28 pm on Aug. 12, 2008 More and more, I wonder why this forum exists.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 8:03 am on Aug. 13, 2008 One Mod response ... and it didn't really address the point I'm trying to make here. Really great.
-- Posted by Fountain of Salmacis at 9:58 am on Aug. 13, 2008 I have to agree with you, Forever Angel. I think that part of the problem I am seeing is that the guidelines are not clear enough, the "more lengthy guidelines" are too hard to find, and since everyone has a different interpretation of them, they are enforced differently and each member reads them differently. For example: 1) You stated that the word "throat" can make a topic explicit and Major's only response was that people can turn on the filter. The problem with this is that general words like "throat" or "shave" makes topics explicit, when they may be about sore throats and techniques on shaving one's legs. I don't even know why we have the "explicit" tag because to me that just draws more horny teenagers to that thread. There is even a guideline that states members should refrain from "Using excessive vulgar or profane language" but this guideline is rarely enforced from what I can tell. And that is the entire guideline for that one, a whole six words, and like you stated who defines "excessive"? 2) Another guideline stats that members should refrain from "Advertising, soliciting or requesting Livewire points." yet people are allowed to advertise website in the signatures. That doesn't make sense either. I know the Moderators can't be everywhere and see everything on the site which is why they rely on members to help them out in spotting things that are against the guidelines, but that doesn't excuse the enforcement of the guideline. I think the guidelines need to be reworked, be written in more detail and be easier to find. This is the Livewire Picture Policy and one of the things it clearly states is that You will only use content that you own or have the right to use. so why do people have copyrighted images in their Image Baskets and as their avatars? I am indifferent on the entire "underwear in avatars" issue, and am not bothered by them. However, having said that, if I was 13 again I would be against them and if I was the parent of a 13 year-old that was utilizing this site, I would ban my children from visiting this site. I would actually like to know what the Administration actually does and how they can get away with running a near pornographic site that is geared to minors. The Privacy Policy has not been updated in over six years and both the Terms of Use and the Forum Guidelines have not been updated in over three years. Let's take a look at the Letter To Parents:
These are all things that are not enforced, due to misunderstood guidelines and as a result can in fact not please everyone because people have different interpretations of things. But the one that gets me the most is this one:
If the Administrators of this website are assuring parents that questionable material is deleted, then why isn't it being deleted and why isn't the Administration more involved to ensure that it's being done? I would totally embarrassed if I promised something to someone and it wasn't being carried out, especially when minors are involved.
-- Posted by Forever Angel at 10:22 am on Aug. 13, 2008 You make some very good points. But the Mods seem to avoiding this topic, so they probably won't make any difference.
-- Posted by Periwinkle at 11:29 am on Aug. 13, 2008 Did it occur to you that maybe we just didn't see your topic? I think some words not being allowed in signatures/custom ranks is a hangover from when swearing wasn't allowed on the site at all, though I'm not sure of that as I wasn't around back then. There is a content filtering option available in 'my account'. I assume it filters along the same guidelines as the explicit feature, though I don't actually know and can't try because it's disabled for moderators. We don't allow things like erotic writing here (I remember there being a huge fuss a while back because storm posted an erotic story for the lulz). The sex material on this site is (supposed to be, though there's always some that gets through) general discussion and advice.
-- Posted by iconoclast at 11:31 am on Aug. 13, 2008 Quote: from Periwinkle at 2:29 pm on Aug. 13, 2008 absolutely not the mods pretty much harass me in every one of my topics so i doubt it |
Look, this is a TEEN forum. As long as we're going to allow members as young as 13, we need to have our rules be appropriate for that age group. 
