-- Posted by Crazy snake at 2:04 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 I am confused, and not making any statements or anything, just want to know more about this. Right, the theory is, that the universe as we know it, was created by 'The Big Bang' yes?. But before the universe, what was there? I mean, I know its impossible to know, but there must have been something, right? Because to cause an explosion (Bang), you need energy yes? The laws of physics, clearly state that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can be transformed from one form into another. So for the big bang to have happened, you would need some type of energy, and given the definition of energy, technically it has never been created, it has always existed. However, if this energy existed before the Big bang, how could it have been? Something must have started all this energy yes? Because without it, there would have been no big bang? (correct me if I'm wrong, for I am very confused about this myself) So could you please give me the scientific definiton, of how the big bang happened, and where all this energy may have come from? Also, I am only aware of the big bang theory, however, there must be others? If you know of any other theories of how the universe started, please enlighten me, I'm interested to know. -Brian Disclaimer: I am 16. I currently know little about physics, I am not trying to act older than I am, or anything like that. If you're going to be a stuck up know it all, when replying to this topic, don't reply, or it shall be removed. Thank you -- Posted by pujolsfan at 2:05 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... -- Posted by rokkin1 at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 I don't really know either, tho I've wondered about it. sidenote:science tries to disprove religions but in the end takes just as much faith the believe than most religions -- Posted by Ancient Rights at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 One theory proposed that coincides with the big bang theory is the universal rubber band theory. Basically some scientists think that the big bang was the result of an infinitely dense mass becoming unstable and exploding outward, thus the big bang. But once the universe expands as far as it can, it will start contracting back into this infinitely dense mass and the process will repeat. That's the only one that I've read that has somewhat plausibly explains the Big Bang theory. -- Posted by xsnortingxashesx at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from pujolsfan at 2:05 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... Intellectual Forum, not Religion and Philosophy. -- Posted by rokkin1 at 2:10 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from xsnortingxashesx at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from pujolsfan at 2:05 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... Intellectual Forum, not Religion and Philosophy. Never the less, thats a theory to how the universe was created, no? -- Posted by xsnortingxashesx at 2:13 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from rokkin1 at 2:10 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from xsnortingxashesx at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from pujolsfan at 2:05 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...    Intellectual Forum, not Religion and Philosophy. Never the less, thats a theory to how the universe was created, no? True, true. I mean, it is always a possibility. Everything is. -- Posted by Crazy snake at 2:14 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Please stop talking about creation and religion. If you want to start a debate over that, then please do it in the religion forum. I only want to know scientific theories. Thanks -- Posted by TheOtherHorseman at 2:20 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Interesting story about the laws of physics. They are the laws of the universe. Prior to the universe's existence, well... -- Posted by rokkin1 at 2:20 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 I'm not trying to debate, my bad. BUT! on TV I heard about that rubber band theory thing that someone mentioned. I think its the most widely believed and accepted of scientific theories. you can check this out: http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/1999/2/10/howTheUniverseWasCreatedIsTheBig BangTheoryWrongResearchPresentsNewBeginningToUniverse note: delete the space in there first.. it wouldn't let me post it cause it was to many consecutive letters without a space -- Posted by Crazy snake at 2:40 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from rokkin1 at 10:20 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 I'm not trying to debate, my bad. BUT! on TV I heard about that rubber band theory thing that someone mentioned. I think its the most widely believed and accepted of scientific theories. you can check this out: http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/1999/2/10/howTheUniverseWasCreatedIsTheBig BangTheoryWrongResearchPresentsNewBeginningToUniverse note: delete the space in there first.. it wouldn't let me post it cause it was to many consecutive letters without a space That is a very interesting theory! However, though it states, that new universes are potentially being created as we speak, it still does not account for what caused the very first universe. Yes, it states that it was a very high density energy area, which exploded. However, we still do not know where the energy that caused this comes from, because remember the theory of energy, it must have been there, always? But it should have a begining. Also, if the theory is right, doesnt that mean that our universe, is one of hundreds, if not thousands? But if so, if we were to travel to the extreme edge of our current universe (pretending this theory is correct), what would we be greeted by? Would we come to an area like the universe, before the big bang? separating our universe, from another? or would they be intertwined? Intertwined would not make sense, as the amount of energy in each, would have accelerated at different speeds, so technically, if this theory was real, we could see the universe before the big bang yes? If we had the technology of course. -- Posted by allsmiles at 5:38 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 The laws of physics do state that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, yes, but the laws of physics as defined by humans are limited to our current experiences. They are not guaranteed. In fact, we've found that many of our apparent laws are broken near perfect zero, which is presumably the state of affairs before the "big bang," whose residual radiation accounts for most of the heat in vaccuum. -- Posted by holysaiyan1 at 9:44 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Quote: from Crazy snake at 5:04 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 Right, the theory is, that the universe as we know it, was created by 'The Big Bang' yes?. But before the universe, what was there? I mean, I know its impossible to know, but there must have been something, right? Because to cause an explosion (Bang), you need energy yes?   The laws of physics, clearly state that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can be transformed from one form into another.   So for the big bang to have happened, you would need some type of energy, and given the definition of energy, technically it has never been created, it has always existed. However, if this energy existed before the Big bang, how could it have been? Something must have started all this energy yes? Because without it, there would have been no big bang? (correct me if I'm wrong, for I am very confused about this myself) So could you please give me the scientific definiton, of how the big bang happened, and where all this energy may have come from? Okay, this is a big question, but I'll try my best. First, some background.  When you think of "empty space", you think there's nothing there, right?  Wrong.  Every second, billions of subatomic particles are popping into existence, and then popping back into nothingness.  These are called "virtual particles".  Normally, virtually particles come in twos: one is matter, one is anti-matter.  Anti-matter and matter destroy each other as soon as they touch.  The universe, so to say, does not care if matter pops into existence, as long as it goes away, and the net balance is more or less zero.  The more matter you want to see created, the longer you're going to wait, and the faster it has to go away. A bit of matter (really, all the matter in the universe.  There is not really that much matter in the universe, it's just really spread out!) popped into existence, and before it popped back, *something happened* to make it expand at faster-than-light speed.  This is called inflation.  In a REALLY short time, the universe went from 10e-33 centimeters to a huge size.   As you probably know, matter and energy are interchangable.  A little bit of matter is a huge amount of energy, and vice versa.  So all the energy and matter in the universe today were there when the universe popped into reality. Back then, the four forces of the universe (strong subatomic force, weak subatomic force, electromagnetism, and gravity) were one, unified force.  As the universe cooled off from the initial birth, the laws of the universe changed, and the forces began to crystallize, or split off from each other.  Electromagnetism and the weak force were the last ones to break apart, around one-thousandth of a second after the Big Bang. The universe cooled down further, until it was cool enough for atoms to form.  Before then, it was too hot, and everything was just a giant plasma (read: superhot gas, the Sun is made of plasma) of the bits and pieces that make up subatomic particles.  Quarks met up with gluons, and became subatomic particles.  As the universe cooled, those subatomic particles met up, and became atoms.  Atoms met up with other atoms, and became molecules.  It was not cool enough for atoms and molecules to form until one billion years afer the Big Bang! This just scratches the surface, but I hope this clears it up.  As some physicists quip, the universe may have been a once-in-a-lifetime event.  The key to all of this, though, is remembering that in the quantum world, anything is possible if you wait long enough... even a vacuum fluctuation that brings enough matter into being to fill a universe with! The following pic is a bit squished but I think it'll help illustrate. -- Posted by Bacon at 3:08 am on Aug. 23, 2008 Before the big bang there was conscious potential. -- Posted by Ryan Potter at 12:57 pm on Aug. 23, 2008 Quote: from rokkin1 at 4:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 I don't really know either, tho I've wondered about it.   sidenote:science tries to disprove religions but in the end takes just as much faith the believe than most religions Science doesn't try to disprove religion.  Some scientists do, but science does not. -- Posted by myystic at 3:11 am on Aug. 24, 2008 Quote: from xsnortingxashesx at 7:08 am on Aug. 23, 2008 Quote: from pujolsfan at 2:05 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... Intellectual Forum, not Religion and Philosophy. Side note: The Intellectual Forum was originally founded so as we could get away from the garbage that was beginning to befall R&P. And ultimately, since we're talking something that often encompasses R&P (as we've little proof either way) I'd allow it. I believe there was such thing as a 'Steady State' theory that was likely debunked and given up on a while back now (many years, if the ol' noodle's up to scratch) that essentially stated that the universe just 'is what it is what is was' or something airy-fairy to that effect. To the OP, essentially the problem you're running into is trying to apply the laws of physics to a time when they didn't apply. That is; they apply to the within the universe, but not around it. There's some data floating around somewhere (you can likely Wikipedia it) stating that the laws of physics only apply to within something like 10^-37s of the hypothesised big bang. Such questions, it is generally agreed, cannot generally be answered with a 'scientific definition'. -- Posted by Tiroth at 5:58 pm on Aug. 27, 2008 Quote: from Ancient Rights at 2:08 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 One theory proposed that coincides with the big bang theory is the universal rubber band theory. Basically some scientists think that the big bang was the result of an infinitely dense mass becoming unstable and exploding outward, thus the big bang. But once the universe expands as far as it can, it will start contracting back into this infinitely dense mass and the process will repeat. That's the only one that I've read that has somewhat plausibly explains the Big Bang theory. Actually there were tests done, and they found out the the universe wasn't slowing down, it is continuously speeding up in its expansion, so the new theory is that the universe will keep expanding until ever atom is pulled apart and seperate from everything else. -- Posted by Feminawesome at 6:59 am on Aug. 29, 2008 Quote: from Crazy snake at 2:04 pm on Aug. 22, 2008 The laws of physics, clearly state that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can be transformed from one form into another. The laws of physics exist within the universe. They don't apply outside of it.