-- Posted by Bearsy at 1:02 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 should really get out of the thread. Having it locked so that no one else argues while you're not there doesn't help anyone. Arguing is a good thing, if no one ever argued or complained no progress would be made. And the arguments that yield the most emotional responses are those you're afraid are right. -- Posted by Scandol5Mossie at 1:03 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 very .. very true.. -- Posted by 2kewl4u2know at 1:04 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Are you still mad at them for locking your thread?  They said you could always open a new one if you wanted, and just invite the people you want to continue the conversation with to the new topic. -- Posted by Bearsy at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from 2kewl4u2know at 1:04 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Are you still mad at them for locking your thread? They said you could always open a new one if you wanted, and just invite the people you want to continue the conversation with to the new topic. They locked my most recent topic as well, and I have made a new one.   -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 So you're complaining because you can't take the fact that you're wrong? Oh my word. -- Posted by zack mcgee 2010 at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 ya thats bull they shouldnt stop anything -- Posted by Bearsy at 1:08 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 So you're complaining because you can't take the fact that you're wrong? Oh my word. I'm complaining that they're silencing me for no valid reason. -- Posted by hotsaucii princess at 1:08 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 true -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:12 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:08 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 So you're complaining because you can't take the fact that you're wrong? Oh my word. I'm complaining that they're silencing me for no valid reason. No valid reason? They've explained to you the situation, you just fail to understand it. You keep on complaining when the reason has been explained to you clearly. The original topic was locked because it was getting into a flame war. Your complaint topic was locked because it was getting nowhere. You were practically ignoring what the moderators and I were saying and you insist that they should bend a rule for you because you're pissed. It was explained perfectly and you were retaliating with a load of rubbish and challenging things for the sake of challenging them. If they wanted to silence you they'd delete your posts not lock the topic so people wouldn't see what you had to say. You are also free to make another topic - like this one, but for what purpose? You're just looking for attention, and even that is against the guidelines. The discussion is over, end of story. -- Posted by Bearsy at 1:15 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:12 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:08 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:07 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 So you're complaining because you can't take the fact that you're wrong? Oh my word. I'm complaining that they're silencing me for no valid reason. No valid reason? They've explained to you the situation, you just fail to understand it. You keep on complaining when the reason has been explained to you clearly. The original topic was locked because it was getting into a flame war. Your complaint topic was locked because it was getting nowhere. You were practically ignoring what the moderators and I were saying and you insist that they should bend a rule for you because you're pissed. It was explained perfectly and you were retaliating with a load of rubbish and challenging things for the sake of challenging them. If they wanted to silence you they'd delete your posts not lock the topic so people wouldn't see what you had to say. You are also free to make another topic - like this one, but for what purpose? You're just looking for attention, and even that is against the guidelines. The discussion is over, end of story. If they don't want to see my complaints, they're free to look at other topics. I'm  not pissed, I was countering their points and explaining why the rule should change. they didn't listen to any of my arguments. I'm not seeking attention, I'm making my argument to better LW. oh this discussion is over? Then I suppose you're not going to reply to this because that would mean you're talking to yourself. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:23 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:15 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 If they don't want to see my complaints, they're free to look at other topics.   I'm not pissed, I was countering their points and explaining why the rule should change. they didn't listen to any of my arguments.   I'm not seeking attention, I'm making my argument to better LW.   oh this discussion is over? Then I suppose you're not going to reply to this because that would mean you're talking to yourself. You asked the moderators a question, why the hell would they not respond? 1) Yes, you are annoyed, otherwise you wouldn't have made two topics about it. 2) Your countering consisted of: "The policy is shit, I want it changed". You're not going to be the exception right now. if a policy change were to occur, your topic lock wouldn't suddenly get lifted (unless it was retroactive which I doubt). 3) If you want to suggest a better idea or give feedback, then do it in Feedback and Constructive Criticism, not in the M2M forum. That's not what it's for. You were asked why your topic was locked, and that was explained. That is not the place to debate policy or suggest new ideas. 4) In my opinion you are seeking attention. Any normal person would have read their reasoning, understood and lived with it. If they still have a problem they would have made a new topic in F&CC to get the response from the community and the moderators on the policy and not just your case. Yet you pretty much ignored what they had to say and kept using the same argument when your topic was just about the reasoning behind the locking. I meant that the discussion behind the reasoning. You just don't get it do you? -- Posted by Bearsy at 1:28 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:23 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:15 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 If they don't want to see my complaints, they're free to look at other topics.  I'm  not pissed, I was countering their points and explaining why the rule should change. they didn't listen to any of my arguments.  I'm not seeking attention, I'm making my argument to better LW.  oh this discussion is over? Then I suppose you're not going to reply to this because that would mean you're talking to yourself. You asked the moderators a question, why the hell would they not respond? 1) Yes, you are annoyed, otherwise you wouldn't have made two topics about it. 2) Your countering consisted of: "The policy is shit, I want it changed". You're not going to be the exception right now. if a policy change were to occur, your topic lock wouldn't suddenly get lifted (unless it was retroactive which I doubt). 3) If you want to suggest a better idea or give feedback, then do it in Feedback and Constructive Criticism, not in the M2M forum. That's not what it's for. You were asked why your topic was locked, and that was explained. That is not the place to debate policy or suggest new ideas. 4) In my opinion you are seeking attention. Any normal person would have read their reasoning, understood and lived with it. If they still have a problem they would have made a new topic in F&CC to get the response from the community and the moderators on the policy and not just your case. Yet you pretty much ignored what they had to say and kept using the same argument when your topic was just about the reasoning behind the locking. I meant that the discussion behind the reasoning. You just don't get it do you? Because maybe they don't want to, so they don't have to. some different ones can instead. 1) I'm trying to make positive changes, that's why I made two topics about it.   2) I don't want to be the exception, and my argument was a lot more than that. Go back and read some of what I had to say, the current policy is more efficient for the mods but not for the members. 3) Oops. Ok sorry I put the topic in the wrong forum, you could have moved it. 4) I'm not. Normally when people say "This discussion is over" it's followed by them storming off angry, so I figured you meant you weren't talking to me anymore. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:41 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:28 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Because maybe they don't want to, so they don't have to. some different ones can instead.   1) I'm trying to make positive changes, that's why I made two topics about it. 2) I don't want to be the exception, and my argument was a lot more than that. Go back and read some of what I had to say, the current policy is more efficient for the mods but not for the members.   3) Oops. Ok sorry I put the topic in the wrong forum, you could have moved it.   4) I'm not.   Normally when people say "This discussion is over" it's followed by them storming off angry, so I figured you meant you weren't talking to me anymore. If they didn't want to, maybe they wouldn't. But seeing as how you addressed the moderators it's their job to help answer your question - which it was. They shouldn't have to leave it to the other moderators merely because you're not pleased with the answer that you're getting. No doubt you'd receive the same response from the other moderators. Not to mention that they have other things to do as well, not just reply to a whining member. 1) If you were serious about change you'd make a topic explaining the 'problem' with this rule that you have and perhaps what you suggest can be done about it. Your first topic was asking why the topic was locked, and that was answered. You then tried to debate the actual rule, when that wasn't really the original intent of the topic (nor would it allow other members and moderators to understand what you're debating purely from the title and hence contribute more). 2) So you propose that a change be made which will take up more time for the moderators? That's really not how it works here on in the real world. You have to learn to compromise, nothing's perfect. The moderators are the ones that enforce the rules, so they have to find a moderation style that is both effective and time efficient. If you change the policy to your idea it may be better for the members, but even then it would take a lot longer and perhaps some topics might not be covered simply because there isn't enough time. 3) No, because the topic was placed well. The original question was answered and placed in the correct forum. But you brought up something completely different - talking about the policy - which doesn't belong in that forum. If you wish to be able to effectively hear what other moderators and users have to say, make a new topic for that purpose not effectively derail your own topic to another discussion point. The title also wouldn't explain what you were debating either. You can't just feed off the result and pipe it into the same topic when your topic had the question (reason for locking) answered. 4) You most definitely are, but obviously attention whores don't think they are themselves. I will do, because I'd rather waste my time than have you enraged at no-one else answering thus trying to fuel further your stupid point. Plus it's a waste of a moderators time repeating what I can say when they have other things to do. -- Posted by palepalepeach at 1:53 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Why don't you pm the mods about it or something instead of making more topics about it?   -- Posted by Bearsy at 1:53 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from marshmellowman at 1:41 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:28 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Because maybe they don't want to, so they don't have to. some different ones can instead.  1) I'm trying to make positive changes, that's why I made two topics about it.      2) I don't want to be the exception, and my argument was a lot more than that. Go back and read some of what I had to say, the current policy is more efficient for the mods but not for the members.  3) Oops. Ok sorry I put the topic in the wrong forum, you could have moved it.  4) I'm not.  Normally when people say "This discussion is over" it's followed by them storming off angry, so I figured you meant you weren't talking to me anymore. If they didn't want to, maybe they wouldn't. But seeing as how you addressed the moderators it's their job to help answer your question - which it was. They shouldn't have to leave it to the other moderators merely because you're not pleased with the answer that you're getting. No doubt you'd receive the same response from the other moderators. Not to mention that they have other things to do as well, not just reply to a whining member. 1) If you were serious about change you'd make a topic explaining the 'problem' with this rule that you have and perhaps what you suggest can be done about it. Your first topic was asking why the topic was locked, and that was answered. You then tried to debate the actual rule, when that wasn't really the original intent of the topic (nor would it allow other members and moderators to understand what you're debating purely from the title and hence contribute more). 2) So you propose that a change be made which will take up more time for the moderators? That's really not how it works here on in the real world. You have to learn to compromise, nothing's perfect. The moderators are the ones that enforce the rules, so they have to find a moderation style that is both effective and time efficient. If you change the policy to your idea it may be better for the members, but even then it would take a lot longer and perhaps some topics might not be covered simply because there isn't enough time. 3) No, because the topic was placed well. The original question was answered and placed in the correct forum. But you brought up something completely different - talking about the policy - which doesn't belong in that forum. If you wish to be able to effectively hear what other moderators and users have to say, make a new topic for that purpose not effectively derail your own topic to another discussion point. The title also wouldn't explain what you were debating either. You can't just feed off the result and pipe it into the same topic when your topic had the question (reason for locking) answered. 4) You most definitely are, but obviously attention whores don't think they are themselves. I will do, because I'd rather waste my time than have you enraged at no-one else answering thus trying to fuel further your stupid point. Plus it's a waste of a moderators time repeating what I can say when they have other things to do. As a team it is but not as individuals. The ones in that topic clearly didn't want to so they should have stepped off. 1) I didn't understand what the rule was at the time, I was confused as to what derailing was. 2) The mods aren't professionals, they're volunteers and the reason they're here is supposed to be to help the rest of the forum function well. They've somewhat abandoned this duty in exchange for following the rules in a way easiest to them at any cost to the rest of the forum. 3) Do you know how a discussion works son? There's no rule that a non-support topic can't stray from it's original point. 4) Personal attacks are the cheapest kind of argument. you've said so yourself. that has nothing to do with my OP and you're clearly just trying to stray my topic. I'm not enraged. You are. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 2:09 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 9:53 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 As a team it is but not as individuals. The ones in that topic clearly didn't want to so they should have stepped off.   1) I didn't understand what the rule was at the time, I was confused as to what derailing was.   2) The mods aren't professionals, they're volunteers and the reason they're here is supposed to be to help the rest of the forum function well. They've somewhat abandoned this duty in exchange for following the rules in a way easiest to them at any cost to the rest of the forum. 3) Do you know how a discussion works son? There's no rule that a non-support topic can't stray from it's original point.   4) Personal attacks are the cheapest kind of argument. you've said so yourself. that has nothing to do with my OP and you're clearly just trying to stray my topic.   I'm not enraged. You are. Stepped off? Why because they don't agree with you? I'm sorry that's not how it works. You don't get to choose another moderator because you don't like the answers you hear. If another moderator wants to contribute they would have (assuming they've seen it). There's no point in all 32 moderators replying to answer one measly topic. 1) Well clearly now you do. That question was also answered in your topic, though even there you continued to misuse the word and even in PMs with me. 2) Wow, you clearly don't understand their roles. They are volunteers, but as such when you fill out the moderator application form you agree to a few things, one of which being to enforce the guidelines that are present in order to maintain decorum on the forum. They do help in the rest of the forum, well I've seen a lot of them do so and even in eHelp replies. But you've seemed to come out on a tangent, this time ranting about the moderators rather than the rules. This seems to be common with you. You also ignored what I had to say in my previous 2) comment about time and efficiency. Nicely done. 3) Yes there is. It's called derailing a topic when you stray away from the original intent, which what you did actually in your 1st complaint topic. You veered from asking why the topic was locked to discussing policy. There's a reason there are separate forums for feedback and for asking moderators questions. You failed to understand this. 4) I made a point that you liked attention, it was a well placed comment. That was that, you've continued to perpetuate this point. Stray the topic? Do you know what that means? I made a one line remark amongst 4 whole other paragraphs to explain why you're wrong, most of which you've ignored like in your other topic. Haha, me enraged? Nah, this is just a minor nuisance. -- Posted by Bearsy at 2:26 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 no, because I wanted to argue and they didn't. 1) I didn't misuse it after I learned what it was. 2) it's the duty of any sl to answer e-helps and be supportive and whatnot, but the mod is appointed to help the forum in more ways than that. They've written a lot of their own "policies" and I think they could use some improvement. 3) Show me this derailing a topic rule. 4) I'm not attention whoring, I know myself better than you do. I can feel the smoke coming out of your nostrils -- Posted by marshmellowman at 2:48 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 10:26 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 no, because I wanted to argue and they didn't.   1) I didn't misuse it after I learned what it was.   2) it's the duty of any sl to answer e-helps and be supportive and whatnot, but the mod is appointed to help the forum in more ways than that. They've written a lot of their own "policies" and I think they could use some improvement.   3) Show me this derailing a topic rule.   4) I'm not attention whoring, I know myself better than you do.   I can feel the smoke coming out of your nostrils This isn't about arguing at all, this is about the discussion content, not about whether they wanted to argue. 1) Which took you a while, but I never said you did after you learned what it was. 2) Not tech SLs, they can't reply to eHelps. But believe it or not moderators are also, shockingly, support leaders and hence can and will reply to eHelps when they can. That is also part of their duty as moderators because they still remain SLs for a good reason. See the list of the most supportive members. There are quite a few moderators on both the overall and weekly list. They do contribute. If you think they can use improvement then suggest it in the correct forum in a new topic not a topic that had been segued into another point. 3)  "These are generally high-traffic forums, so please pay attention to the subject matter of your posts, and check that it still relates to the topic and forum to which you are posting." link - How much clearer can it get? 4) Whatever, I'll move on because you continue to not understand. Well then you're wrong about yet another thing. And I like that you still haven't responded to some of the lengthy points I made. -- Posted by Bearsy at 3:16 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 That's in the forum etiquette, not the rules. there's no rule that I gotta welcome newcomers either. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 3:57 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Well if you don't consider that enough, whilst I can't find a direct description, there are a few that can apply to your topic(s) and cover it more than well enough. Lets see: "Spamming of forums, members (via private message or email), articles, search engines, and services." - Whilst spam isn't defined by LiveWire, one definition says "Generally refers to repeated and irrelevant content." You repeated the same stuff over and over, and you can consider the fact that your original question asked something different to what you finished with posting as irrelevant (to the original point). "Posting a topic in the wrong forum" - Again whilst this doesn't apply to complaint 1 or 2 really, if you alter the discussion point (which you did - to debating the policy) and you want to keep discussing that the topic would have an incorrect title and be in the wrong forum (should be in Feedback and Constructive Criticism). "Posting content that has no contribution value." You can also say this applies because your original post asked a question, which was subsequently answered, yet your questions and statements about the policy offered contribution to a different point - that being of the policy and not your original locked topic. This is a different discussion point and as above belongs in a different forum. "Posting derogatory comments about LiveWire without offering meaningful suggestions to address the issues." This one is more loose, but you could say that your comments were derogatory (incase you don't know what it means it's "showing a critical or disrespectful attitude)about the LiveWire moderation team. Examples of such instances being: - "there are problems with how the moderation team works. You can't possibly think it's perfect." You criticise them but make no other comment other than pretty much saying "they suck" nor do you offer meaningful ways to improve it. - "you are too lazy to delete some of the  posts which are not relevant to the threads main conversation" Again you accuse them of being lazy but you make no other ways to help, but say "you can get closer to [perfection]" and again offer no advice or suggestion on how to sustain such perfection. - "I'm not saying it's the mods fault, it's the guidelines fault." Again, you say the guidelines are at fault but make no help as to how to improve on it. Just to name a few. There may be more but I can't believe at this point I've wasted as much time on this already as I have. Furthermore, it has been such policy to lock derailed, flame war or spam topics for a long time now, so it's hardly anything new anyway. Either way your topic was locked for the correct reason. And once again I'll add the fact that you didn't respond to my rebuttals, but that's probably just because you know you're wrong or won't admit to it. -- Posted by Bearsy at 4:10 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 since you brought this post into my other topic I will paste that post here sir the mods were repeating their arguments and I was simply counter-arguing those points, which involved me repeating so the mods broke that guideline by repeating I was in the right forum but the topic drifted to a feedback and constructive criticism section topic, that is extremely common in M2M Absolutely nothing I said in that thread was derogatory, however, there were many derogatory comments (whiney little bitch, attention whore) etc directed at me. I can't believe you site "there are problems with how the moderation team works. You can't possibly think it's perfect." as derogatory and disrespectful. Are you kidding? and I have responded to those same points so many times, you're just repeating the same arguments which you claim is against the rules -- Posted by marshmellowman at 4:34 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 Quote: from Its Bearsy Bitch at 12:09 am on Aug. 29, 2008 ghe mods were repeating their arguments and I was simply counter-arguing those points, which involved me repeating Doesn't mean it wasn't broken. I was in the right forum but the topic drifted to a feedback and constructive criticism section topic, that is extremely common in M2M Just because it can happen doesn't mean that you can do it too, and it also doesn't mean that the guideline wasn't broken. Absolutely nothing I said in that thread was derogatory, however, there were many derogatory comments (whiney little bitch, attention whore) etc directed at me. I can't believe you site "there are problems with how the moderation team works. You can't possibly think it's perfect." as derogatory and disrespectful. Are you kidding? Apparently you can't read. "Posting derogatory comments about LiveWire" You did criticise LW without offering any ideas to improve upon those comments, such as those that I listed, so the guideline was still broken. This isn't about you slandering other people, this is about you saying there's a problem with LW but not giving any methods as to rectify these so called 'problems'. Damn you really are stupid. EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add once again you've made no effort to counter my previously made points in the beginnings of this topic. Case closed, no wonder why no-one will debate anything with you: Because you're an ignorant and stubborn girl. It's like that time you thought fats were calories. Haha. -- Posted by Bearsy at 4:38 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 I offered my idea to improve LW, it was constructive criticism And you are twisting both my words and those guidelines to an extent that it's not worth bothering, you can't get it through your head, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 4:49 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 I'm not twisting anything. I took direct quotes that I then linked for anyone to see. I don't know what I'm talking about? That's bloody hilarious coming from you. -- Posted by Bearsy at 4:51 pm on Aug. 28, 2008 you really don't madam.