-- Posted by fenrir at 3:42 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 i THINK i would right? i mean...i have though it over for a long time and i've been bapitised and i DO believe, its just that i hate myself VERY much, and i don't think i have the guts to handle life anymore. All the answers lead to more questions, all the treatments lead to medication for the side effects, friends, out of nowhere, say harsh things, even thought you're always the nice guy. I think i'm a lost cause, and i just want to know if i'll go to hell, i never killed anyone, well except myself...soon, in the future, maybe. This quote was taken by duesxmachina in his previous topic stated in the Serious Forum, which I am sadly unable to answer directly via this particular issue, but perhaps the rest of us shall be enlightened enough to respond all the same.  Shall we? First, I'd like to begin by saying that there is not a single verse within scripture that speaks definitively or authoritatively on how suicide is a damnable offense.  In fact, the very notion of unpardonable offenses spoken is scripture is MAT 12:30-32 (NIV) for which no forgiveness can given. Why is that precisely?  In order for one to be forgiven of past, current and future transgressions is to accept teachings that speak directly toward a fulfillment of scripture through which Jesus, himself, is the culmination of previous prophetic notions.  Not only is Jesus sought as a Davidic and/or Messianic Hope expressed in 2 SAM 7:16 (NIV) as an "...enduring legacy..." (Note: Not eternal) under which submission is anticipated and accepted between followers of Davidic covenant and subsequent adherence thereafter by his seed.  After the Babylonian diaspora (605, 598, 587/6 BC) in 537 BC, Judaism is afforded their individual freedoms under Persian kingship.  Once they were able to return to their Holy Land, they were entitled to their individual rules, but they would never again be given freedom under their original David covenant.  Therefore, they sought to have one capable of restoring their former glory and adherence. Unfortunately, Jesus never seem to please anyone.  Even now, there's great speculation over whether or not he existed entirely.  For such claims, simply denying the validity and authenticity of current religious texts to describe original context is not only laughable, but poor textual scholarship.  In saying this, for one to speak against Jesus or the gift of eternal forgiveness openly is to forsake freely given forgiveness for previous transgressions. Does one who takes their own life violate forgiveness directly or indirectly?  No, unless it is their intention beforehand to speak against freely given forgiveness; which suicide is merely a factor in order to equate one's passing prior to judgment, not a damnable offense itself.  I can count a number of instances in scripture where men and women kill themselves over a number of theological issues whether by knowingly speaking against HIS people, seeking relief from wartime losses by falling under their own swords, hanging themselves after they've betrayed Christ, etc.  Never is it spoken in scripture where suicide itself is a damnable offense.  Never.  And for members of Christendom or the peanut gallery to speak otherwise is speaking purely from extra-Biblical sources and philosophy several centuries following Christ's birth-teachings-persecution-sacrifice-resurrection-ascension, etc. If I'm not mistaken, a Christian philosopher a greater majority of LiveWire members whether atheist, agnostic, Christian, etc. seem to quote most often by their own knowledge or not is Augustine of Hippo where he not only rejects the subsequent freedom of a Christian at the expense of God and his unwaivering omniscience.  For one to openly speak from any perceived authority must ultimately come to he knowledge that one's willingness to take their own lives is subject by their own ambition and action.  And if anyone claims that they know the outcome from such action besides perception or mere assumption, not dictation or authority. To quote Luther from the 2003 film Luther: "Some people say that according to God's justice, this boy is damned because he took his life.  I say it was overcome by the devil.  Is this child any more to blame for the despair that overtook him than an innocent man who is murdered by a robber in the woods?  God must be mercy.  God is mercy." I may not agree thoroughly with his individual Theological stance over a number of issues, but I will agree by saying that God is mercy if not fair.  And for man to speak otherwise is not God, nor should ever claim exhaustive affiliation unless prophetically.  By this criteria, the peanut gallery is subsequently disregarded. To answer the OP:  No, suicides do not automatically go to Hell, but one's affiliation by which the Holy Spirit is measured between the individual adherer and the Lord, our God. -- Posted by draino at 3:43 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 not sure,nobody know. -- Posted by KKKay at 3:43 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 I hope not...I don't really believe in hell anyways...but still. -- Posted by mikey626 at 3:43 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 umm...amen. -- Posted by HaitianGURL67 at 3:44 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Amen, This is some good advice I hope this helps everybody here. -- Posted by gratiaDei777 at 3:44 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 wouldn't take any chances if i were u. -- Posted by hI jAMES at 3:45 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 To quote Luther from the 2003 film Luther: "Some people say that according to God's justice, this boy is damned because he took his life.  I say it was overcome by the devil.  Is this child any more to blame for the despair that overtook him than an innocent man who is murdered by a robber in the woods?  God must be mercy.  God is mercy." Theres a bit of a difference their.  But to answer the question..I really dont know. -- Posted by Uniq0ne at 3:48 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 What do you believe? That's all there is to say really... Nobody has an answer for you but yourself. -- Posted by concon at 3:49 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 no. Hell isnt real -- Posted by BleedingSteelWings at 3:50 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Remember how many figures in Greek mythology killed themselves and still only went to regular hades like everyone else. Only the really bad ones go to Tartarus. -- Posted by The Stranger at 3:51 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Yes if you kill yourself you do go to hell. -- Posted by babooz at 3:53 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Get out of here with these christianity and religion bullshit. Humans are living creatures, just like every animal on this planet. Killing animals, insects, plants is as just as punishable as killing a human or yourself. Everyone is going to hell apparently. And all those billion dead ants and animals are going to heaven -- Posted by MixedDelight at 3:55 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 If you commit suicide you will go to hell. Killing is wrong, even if its yourself. God did not give humans the right to kill his creation, humans took that upon themselves. By killing yourself you are killing his creation. -- Posted by Molfsontan at 3:55 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Suicides go to hell. -- Posted by the real anti christ at 5:29 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 VAL!!! Firstly the link to his member profile isn't working. Secondly I kill meh self is Gunbound all the time so I'm damned right??? Here is the question I would ask: Should we hold reverent a god who would condemn us for something like that? -- Posted by Dexter Ward at 6:01 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 I believe so, hence why I'm certain I'm going to hell if there is one, I technically died (heart stopped ect) from an overdose. -- Posted by fenrir at 6:13 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 8:01 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 I believe so, hence why I'm certain I'm going to hell if there is one, I technically died (heart stopped ect) from an overdose. Why are you being so fatalistic if you know that you're alive now?  Plus, if you automatically assume that you're condemned, how can you knowingly reject freely given forgiveness? -- Posted by draakprinses at 6:38 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 I don't believe so. For a person to go through with it, do they really have complete control over their actions? Do they really have the state of mind to rationalize what the reality of the situation is, and what concequences could come of it? What even of someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder? If one of their alternate personalities were suicidal? Could that person be held accountable? I just think there's too many gray areas to say for sure. -- Posted by bleedingxlove at 7:36 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Suicides do in fact go to hell because God has a specific plan for each of us and when you interfere with that plan by your own doing the that is an act of sin. Thou shalt not kill, this includes killing your self. It's a sin. NO SUICIDE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY WERE WILL GO TO HEAVEN. -- Posted by duesxmachina at 9:12 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 thanks for bringing that back up. its something i kept stored in a little vault but i brought it back because i KNOW theres others who think of it. -- Posted by fenrir at 9:12 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Quote: from the real anti christ at 7:29 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 VAL!!! Firstly the link to his member profile isn't working. Secondly I kill meh self is Gunbound all the time so I'm damned right???   Here is the question I would ask: Should we hold reverent a god who would condemn us for something like that? Thanks for the heads up.  Mistake on my end. As for your final thought, I believe God is compassionate, understanding, fair and just.  The peanut gallery argues hearsay blatantly from extra-Biblical sources whether by their own admission or ignorance, doesn't matter.  If suicide is condemnable, the it should be explicitly condemned via scriptural texts, not solely from Theologians hundreds of years following Jesus' death.  To quote Kingdom of Heaven, "If God does not understand this, then he is not God; and we should not fear Him."  That thought is applicable here. -- Posted by silverbullets at 9:40 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 suicides go to heaven so long as they believe jesus died for theyr sins. thats why i think its okay. -- Posted by duesxmachina at 9:51 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Quote: from silverbullets at 9:40 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 suicides go to heaven so long as they believe jesus died for theyr sins. thats why i think its okay. thats the truth, no matter your religion. no long explanation needed. -- Posted by the real anti christ at 11:42 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Quote: from fenrir at 11:12 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Quote: from the real anti christ at 7:29 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 VAL!!! Firstly the link to his member profile isn't working. Secondly I kill meh self is Gunbound all the time so I'm damned right???        Here is the question I would ask: Should we hold reverent a god who would condemn us for something like that? Thanks for the heads up.  Mistake on my end. As for your final thought, I believe God is compassionate, understanding, fair and just.  The peanut gallery argues hearsay blatantly from extra-Biblical sources whether by their own admission or ignorance, doesn't matter.  If suicide is condemnable, the it should be explicitly condemned via scriptural texts, not solely from Theologians hundreds of years following Jesus' death.  To quote Kingdom of Heaven, "If God does not understand this, then he is not God; and we should not fear Him."  That thought is applicable here. Oh Kingdom of Heaven was Orlando blooms best role. "What is Jerusalem worth?" -- Posted by Cruizer at 1:03 am on Oct. 3, 2008 how is ne1 who hasnt died meant 2 know??? its all just assumptions -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:16 am on Oct. 3, 2008 Quote: from bleedingxlove at 10:36 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Suicides do in fact go to hell because God has a specific plan for each of us and when you interfere with that plan by your own doing the that is an act of sin. Thou shalt not kill, this includes killing your self. It's a sin. NO SUICIDE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY WERE WILL GO TO HEAVEN. If you commit suicide you will go to hell. Killing is wrong, even if its yourself. God did not give humans the right to kill his creation, humans took that upon themselves. By killing yourself you are killing his creation. And can either of you back up the statement that suicide victims are automatically condemned with a specific and explicit scripture rather than inference? -- Posted by fenrir at 6:06 pm on Oct. 3, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 7:16 am on Oct. 3, 2008 Quote: from bleedingxlove at 10:36 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 Suicides do in fact go to hell because God has a specific plan for each of us and when you interfere with that plan by your own doing the that is an act of sin. Thou shalt not kill, this includes killing your self. It's a sin. NO SUICIDE NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY WERE WILL GO TO HEAVEN. If you commit suicide you will go to hell. Killing is wrong, even if its yourself. God did not give humans the right to kill his creation, humans took that upon themselves. By killing yourself you are killing his creation. And can either of you back up the statement that suicide victims are automatically condemned with a specific and explicit scripture rather than inference? ER, I will go out on a limb and say with a resounding, "No." Out of 20+ members I've had a debate with members on LiveWire over this very issue, absolutely nobody is able to provide an explicit verse that condemns from exhaustive authority of how and why suicide is unpardonable.  In fact, none of them seem to realize that they're arguing from St. Augustine's worldview and not any scripture.  None.  Zip.  Zilch. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 6:21 pm on Oct. 3, 2008 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 6:01 pm on Oct. 2, 2008 I believe so, hence why I'm certain I'm going to hell if there is one, I technically died (heart stopped ect) from an overdose. What makes you think God is revoking his offer of salvation because you "technically" died? -- Posted by benhay22 at 6:40 pm on Oct. 3, 2008 No I don't believe that at all. Someone who is so depressed in life and cannot take it anymore who kills themselves..... shouldn't and won't be punished in an afterlife after everything they had to deal with in life