-- Posted by Prince o palities at 3:31 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 So I'll move the discussion of the existence of God being a well thought out concept over here. Wiser men than any here have undertaken the question of God's existence.  In fact, over no other subject of speculation has more ink been spilled over the course of human history than of the existence and nature of God.  What's more, the vast majority of people in the roughly 5,000 years of documented history have concluded that there is something which occupies the place of the "invisible man in the sky." Do with that what you will, but before you stroke your tiny little teen ego and tell yourself how advanced you are for mocking God, remember the host of great minds who stand in the camp of theism.  You set yourself against them (not to mention God). -- Posted by major at 3:32 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 "everyone else thinks it so you should too" good argument, sean -- Posted by The Samsoniteman at 3:33 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 It could be argued that all these intelligent philosophers just made the same mistakes because they're all human. This is why religious belief (not neccessarily monotheistic belief, mind) has been near-universal in humanity. -- Posted by Hontoshimu at 3:34 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 should the person setting up a war like this not have their side picked out or at least be neutral for the sake of the inevitable then why didnt your side make a topic -- Posted by jamesish at 3:35 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 I tend to agree.  The subject is sooooo hard to believe in but yet so greaaat talk about. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 3:38 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Major at 5:32 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 "everyone else thinks it so you should too" good argument, sean This is not an argumentum ad populum because my point is not say there is a God on the basis of a majority vote.  My point is that to suggest that insufficient thought has been dedicated to the existence of God or that we are somehow more advanced in our thought than greater men of the past who believed in God is hubris. -- Posted by cum funnel at 3:40 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 I don't believe I set myself 'against' them because I do not believe in what they do. But I could say the same to you regarding atheism, as well. Though that is pretty obvious an answer. -- Posted by Shogun villimax at 3:40 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 People  have the choice to beleve in what they want,the real question is how will each belef stack up. -- Posted by Enigma of Eternity at 3:44 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 I'm all for God! -- Posted by major at 3:45 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 because before now we hadn't gone under the scientific revolutions that have made it okay to doubt god or to supplant an alternative to the hole where faith would have been we're in a completely different paradigm than when it was, for example, Thomas Jefferson's time (who was a deist) It's not that we're smarter, but yes, we do think differently. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 3:51 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Major at 5:45 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 because before now we hadn't gone under the scientific revolutions that have made it okay to doubt god or to supplant an alternative to the hole where faith would have been we're in a completely different paradigm than when it was, for example, Thomas Jefferson's time (who was a deist) It's not that we're smarter, but yes, we do think differently. You think differently.  We, if we think differently at all, as a species have not changed so much as to prevent most of the world from still being theistic.  The scientific revolutions have not prevented the geographic increase of Christianity and the marked numeric increase of Islam.  Most people even in our own highly civilized nation are still theistic.  Whatever you perceive as having changed in our thought has not eliminated God by any stretch of the imagination, only proved that Almighty Science has not so dramatically changed man as we had hoped. -- Posted by major at 3:57 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 the thinkers before even the most recent scientific revolutions who had to struggle with the concept of god and instead place an "almighty spirit" where he is--because to them the idea of a caring, omnipotent, omnipresent being is unbelievable-- are the agnostics and the atheists of today there are more people, there will be more christians and more muslims and most of them are not converts but the children of believers. Most people do not want to cause trouble, to be possibly exiled from their family, and most people don't really think too much about whether or not their religion makes sense. It just does, and there are other things to think about, like just living. I'm not saying atheists will take over, but they can now claim reason to what they've always felt, and that is normally the existence of scientific theories that sometimes contradict the ideas of theologies. it is much more difficult to go with your feelings when you are against the majority and without any sort of substantial proof than when you are with the majority and without any substantial proof. Science provides a buffer. -- Posted by cum funnel at 3:57 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Prince o palities at 3:51 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Major at 5:45 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 because before now we hadn't gone under the scientific revolutions that have made it okay to doubt god or to supplant an alternative to the hole where faith would have been    we're in a completely different paradigm than when it was, for example, Thomas Jefferson's time (who was a deist)    It's not that we're smarter, but yes, we do think differently. You think differently. We, if we think differently at all, as a species have not changed so much as to prevent most of the world from still being theistic. The scientific revolutions have not prevented the geographic increase of Christianity and the marked numeric increase of Islam. Most people even in our own highly civilized nation are still theistic. Whatever you perceive as having changed in our thought has not eliminated God by any stretch of the imagination, only proved that Almighty Science has not so dramatically changed man as we had hoped. Theism has increased, yes. But so has atheism. I'm not sure if it has increased more than certain larger religions, but it has increased. And that is what I got from Major's post. -- Posted by major at 3:58 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 and by "we" i don't mean atheists but I mean people alive in the 21st century -- Posted by Solitude at 4:12 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 God exists if you believe in him /thread -- Posted by cum funnel at 4:54 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from solitude at 4:12 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 God exists if you believe in him   /thread If you believe you have a tail, that doesn't mean it's there when you look back. -- Posted by Solitude at 5:18 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Pixel Dust at 1:54 am on Oct. 10, 2008 Quote: from solitude at 4:12 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 God exists if you believe in him    /thread If you believe you have a tail, that doesn't mean it's their when you look back. that's exactly what it means. -- Posted by Ice Hand at 5:32 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 I think this is the most disappointing argument I've seen from you Sean. Even i wouldn't have trouble rebutting this. Appealing to the authority of previous , less educated generations is a shitty attempt to argue the existence of God. -- Posted by barnabas at 5:43 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Guys. Its not trying to prove the existance of God. what part of the OP did you not understand? the point is..when you attack christianity, calling it poorly thought out is stupid, because people have "thought it out" for 2000 years. It is very well thought out. That doesnt mean its true, just that you cannot accuse it of being uninformed. -- Posted by Ice Hand at 5:48 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Oh, my bad. -- Posted by barnabas at 5:56 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from Ice Hand at 7:48 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Oh, my bad. Its ok.   we are just so glad you are back with us. any thoughts now that you know what it is saying? ps, this topic came up in an abortion/prolife thread, and so sean moved it out of context to another topic. -- Posted by Ice Hand at 6:14 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Quote: from barnabas at 9:56 am on Oct. 10, 2008 Its ok. we are just so glad you are back with us. It's good to be back. I've had little mental stimulation during my absence and I've kinda lost my edge.   any thoughts now that you know what it is saying? Yeah, I agree. Attempting to argue that Christinity is poorly thought out would be stupid. ps, this topic came up in an abortion/prolife thread, and so sean moved it out of context to another topic. I was wondering about that. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 8:44 am on Oct. 10, 2008 Quote: from Ice Hand at 8:14 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 Yeah, I agree. Attempting to argue that Christinity is poorly thought out would be stupid.   That's what happened.  I used the term "unfounded belief" and someone asked me to define it.  I said an "unfounded belief is a belief which has not been thoroughly thought out."  Someone then said that by the existence of God had not been thought out. You weren't the only one to not get it.  I was hoping this would be enough context, but apparently it wasn't: So I'll move the discussion of the existence of God being a well thought out concept over here. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 8:49 am on Oct. 10, 2008 Quote: from Major at 5:57 pm on Oct. 9, 2008 the thinkers before even the most recent scientific revolutions who had to struggle with the concept of god and instead place an "almighty spirit" where he is--because to them the idea of a caring, omnipotent, omnipresent being is unbelievable-- are the agnostics and the atheists of today You talk as though every sound mind has no concluded that there is no God or that God is unknowable.  Some of the most astounding high theology and apologetics have gone on since the scientific revolutions.  The man who the Catholic Church has declared the most important theologian since Aquinas, Karl Barth (a Protestant), lived within our parents lifetime.  The practice of high theology goes steadly on in spite of your scientific revolutions, which is in part the point of this topic. there are more people, there will be more christians and more muslims and most of them are not converts but the children of believers. *awaits statistical source for statistical claim* -- Posted by major at 4:47 pm on Oct. 10, 2008 that is pretty much common sense, i'm not going to humor you