Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by aynali at 10:35 am on Nov. 7, 2008 as an individual in Turkey I d like to know what  are the things you like and dislike about Islam?... -- Posted by Energizer Bunny at 10:36 am on Nov. 7, 2008 I like lamb kebabs. -- Posted by byebyebeautyful at 10:37 am on Nov. 7, 2008 i dont take time to judge a religion i am not a part of, but  i do have to say i admire it for the history that it gone through -- Posted by La Motta at 10:37 am on Nov. 7, 2008 Their treatment of women is a bit shite. -- Posted by MattJ at 10:38 am on Nov. 7, 2008 It's too barbaric -- Posted by snowfish at 10:38 am on Nov. 7, 2008 I think it's a pretty decent religion as far as organized religions go. Def. in my top two abrahamic religions. But it's pretty hard to make vast generalizations about religions and how they play out. I think that political Islam is fascinating and important for people to study. -- Posted by SovSull at 2:05 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 nonsensical, unabashedly unethical, and a very self-congratulating belief system -- Posted by Shaknbake at 5:06 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Quote: from aynali at 10:35 am on Nov. 7, 2008 as an individual in Turkey I d like to know what  are the things you like and dislike about Islam?... I like the restriction on interest in banking and the obligatory charity. I dislike: The Arab cultural norms bandied about as divine law: -   The sexism -   Hijab -   Those dietary restrictions that DON'T make practical sense in a modern context The mythology bandied about as fact. The beliefs in Hell, treatment of apostates. -- Posted by The Nowhere Man at 5:09 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Islam in general I'm okay with, aside from the sexism and hijab. Also the views on sexuality that are present in every Abrahamic religion. -- Posted by lorenextdoor at 7:51 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Islam is pure, perfect.  Hijab is for respect for women.  Men and women have different roles, not meaning that women are less important.  I find abstinance from sex, no alcohol or pork, and treating others fairly very respectable qualities of Islam. -- Posted by SovSull at 10:31 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Quote: from lorenextdoor at 10:51 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Men and women have different roles, not meaning that women are less important. Hadith: Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." The reference to the presence of two women's votes being equal to one man's comes from here, Sura 2:282 from the Koran: And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. tldr; women and men are not equal in Islam. -- Posted by Aimforthehead at 9:30 am on Nov. 9, 2008 Basically almost every moral and teaching in the Koran. Like the Old and New Testament. Any morals I agree with are usually inherent in human nature. -- Posted by nik1 at 12:13 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Judge each person individually and not the religion itself.  Some interpret it differently and some don't.  It's people that make it good or bad.  Just as in Christianity there is evil and good. -- Posted by SovSull at 1:25 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from nik1 at 3:13 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Some interpret it differently and some don't. It's people that make it good or bad. Not really, the passages I quoted are blatantly unethical. -- Posted by greatescape at 1:42 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from LaMotta at 12:37 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Their treatment of women is a bit shite. I wish you would educate yourself on the actual history and beliefs of Islam before making claims like that. -- Posted by SovSull at 1:50 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from greatescape11 at 4:42 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from LaMotta at 12:37 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Their treatment of women is a bit shite. I wish you would educate yourself on the actual history and beliefs of Islam before making claims like that. Sura 4:34 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). I'd say it's a pretty shitty way to treat anybody. -- Posted by greatescape at 2:09 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from SovSull at 3:50 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Sura 4:34 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). I'd say it's a pretty shitty way to treat anybody. It's pretty east to nitpick select passages out of any text and pull it out of context, and then make the claim that it summarizes the beliefs of the whole religion. Let's take a second look. First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity).  At the time, the above-mentioned treatment of women was extremely common, from a cultural standpoint.  To say that that single passage targets women any more than any other culture did at the time is absurd. We can do the same thing in the Bible. Ephesians Wives must submit to their husbands "in every thing" as though they were Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife." 5:22-24 Wives must revere their husband. 5:33 1 Timothy Women are to dress modestly, "with shamefacedness" -- "not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." 2:9 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 2:11-12 Men are superior to women since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing." 2:14-15 Obviously these are fairly out of context at this point.  However at one time in history, it was considered the norm. The second thing we have to examine is the translation of that particular passage.  Bear in mind the Koran isnt meant to be read in English. Dr. Ahmad Shafaat does a good job really going into depth with this here. Basically he is pointing out that if you read the better translation of the Koran, you see that while there does appear to be inequality, there is also a great deal of respect between the man and the woman.  Additionally, the translation you provided makes a great deal of assumptions as far as translation goes. -- Posted by Aimforthehead at 3:04 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from greatescape11 at 2:09 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity). That's not saying much   -- Posted by bigslick at 5:17 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 i have issues with any religion that is used to make women wear fucking beekeepers suits. then again all religion is bullshit. read nietzsche -- Posted by whrocky5092 at 5:24 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from LaMotta at 1:37 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Their treatment of women is a bit shite. Wait what? You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Islam was the first religion to ever give women rights and power in her home. Please do some research before you talk. Yes i do agree some societies do not treat women right as in the gulf of the middle east but that has nothing to do with islam. They are are  soooo close minded that men want all the control -- Posted by whrocky5092 at 5:25 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from Shaknbake at 8:06 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Quote: from aynali at 10:35 am on Nov. 7, 2008 as an individual in Turkey I d like to know what are the things you like and dislike about Islam?... I like the restriction on interest in banking and the obligatory charity. I dislike: The Arab cultural norms bandied about as divine law: - The sexism - Hijab - Those dietary restrictions that DON'T make practical sense in a modern context The mythology bandied about as fact. The beliefs in Hell, treatment of apostates. Hijab is so that a woman is covered up and you don't have fantasies about her. You love her for the woman she is rather than what she looks like -- Posted by SovSull at 5:39 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from whrocky5092 at 8:25 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Hijab is so that a woman is covered up and you don't have fantasies about her. You love her for the woman she is rather than what she looks like That's not her problem. -- Posted by whrocky5092 at 5:47 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from SovSull at 8:39 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from whrocky5092 at 8:25 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Hijab is so that a woman is covered up and you don't have fantasies about her. You love her for the woman she is rather than what she looks like That's not her problem. you are right that is a mans problem but see when a man doesn't have fantasies it reduces the chance of rapists like in these countries you all love so much -- Posted by greatescape at 6:21 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from Aimforthehead at 5:04 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Quote: from greatescape11 at 2:09 pm on Nov. 9, 2008  First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity). That's not saying much Which is probably why I went on to say a lot more...??? -- Posted by lsd at 9:53 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 First, when the Koran was written, it was actually revolutionary in that it gave women more rights than nearly any other religion or culture at the time (including Christianity).  At the time, the above-mentioned treatment of women was extremely common, from a cultural standpoint.  To say that that single passage targets women any more than any other culture did at the time is absurd. What above mentioned treatment of women?   -- Posted by mysticgohan at 8:43 am on Nov. 10, 2008 LOL @ People Acting Like The Koran Is The Worst Thing To Happen To Women. Religious texts from everything from Judaism to Christianity to Hinduism and so on all treat women just as bad or worse than the Koran. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 9:38 am on Nov. 10, 2008 Quote: from mysticgohan at 11:43 am on Nov. 10, 2008 LOL @ People Acting Like The Koran Is The Worst Thing To Happen To Women. Religious texts from everything from Judaism to Christianity to Hinduism and so on all treat women just as bad or worse than the Koran.   So there's a passage in the Torah and/or Christian scripture that encourages wife beating? Where? -- Posted by mysticgohan at 10:16 am on Nov. 10, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 9:38 am on Nov. 10, 2008 Quote: from mysticgohan at 11:43 am on Nov. 10, 2008 LOL @ People Acting Like The Koran Is The Worst Thing To Happen To Women.    Religious texts from everything from Judaism to Christianity to Hinduism and so on all treat women just as bad or worse than the Koran.   So there's a passage in the Torah and/or Christian scripture that encourages wife beating? Where? Actually there is(or was) quite a debate about the Torah allowing/encouraging wife beating. http://www.myjewishlearning.com/daily_life/relationships/Spouses_and_Partners/Wifebeating.htm -- Posted by lsd at 6:42 pm on Nov. 10, 2008 That's talking about wife beating in Rabbinic literature. But yes, I agree with you that the Qur'an gives rights to women that the Bible doesn't. -- Posted by Shaknbake at 8:47 pm on Nov. 10, 2008 Quote: from whrocky5092 at 5:25 pm on Nov. 9, 2008 Hijab is so that a woman is covered up and you don't have fantasies about her. You love her for the woman she is rather than what she looks like If a man loved a woman for who she was, why would he ever need to beat her (as the Koran permits him to do)? Pages: 1 2  Next