-- Posted by stl man at 6:28 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Enlighten me -- Posted by OodleNoodle at 6:29 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Because they're fucking tards, obviously. -- Posted by xBeautifulTragedyx at 6:29 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 They can't say it with confidence. It DID happen, no matter how hard it is to believe. Just because it was a terrible thing doesn't mean we can just act like it never happened. -- Posted by Amin mele lle at 6:30 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 They want to pretend it never happened because it shows how disgusting the human race is. -- Posted by brunette 17 at 6:31 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 i dont know. i dont know what to believe... -- Posted by airemaye at 6:32 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 Some people just don't believe anything unless they've seen it for themselves. And since time travel is impossible, the claim it can't be proven. -- Posted by Kurasu chan at 6:41 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 I know what you mean. It discusts me to know people like that exist.. -- Posted by MissPrixy07 at 6:49 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 They're just stupid, don't pay any attention to them. Holocaust survivor and author Marion Blumenthal Lazan spoke to middle and high school students at my school on Monday, talking about the importance of tolerance and understanding and relating her experiences as a child under Nazi control. -- Posted by Bud2400 at 6:54 pm on Nov. 7, 2008 A word beforehand: I don't really question the holocaust all that much. I have some skepticism, but I really don't outright deny it. I'm simply going to give you the perspective of what I've seen from most holocaust deniers who do not base their belief on anti-semiticism (and eys, one can deny the holocaust and not be anti-semitic). Holocaust denial usually comes in three specific points: 1) That the number of deaths is not as high as 6 million. 2) There was never any official intent by the Nazi Party to eradicate all Jews. 3) Gas chambers were never used to kill people during the holocaust. The first point generally looks at the demographic data of Jews pre and post WWII in Europe and Europe only, and it's only done on a national scale. In other words, Poland would only count the number of Polish Jews pre and post WWII and not consider whether or not those Jews may have migrated elsewhere, perhaps outside Europe to the United States or Israel. I've looked all over the internet for a reliable statistic on the world Jewish population pre and post WWII, but I am unable to find anything other than immediately before it. Anything after it comes many decades after WWII, where the Jewish population would obviously have shrunk given their fertility levels. During the second point, I have also yet to see any protocol or document released by the Nazis advocating the eradication of all Jews. It's often mixed up with the forced internment and relocation of Jews, but if you know anything about the intent of the Nazis, expelling the Jews was their idea of attaining the racial purity of the German race, not the slaughter of Jews. I have read transcripts of the Wannsee conference, the most cited source for proof of the Nazi's intent to kill the Jews, but reading it, it doesn't explicitly state it. You could misconstrue a statement out of it into advocating that, but to do that, you'd have to ignore what they were referring to (that is, expelling Jews to the east [Russia] and using them as slave labor). The third point deals with the simple fact that there is no room solely for gas chambers, but that they're combined with showers. It might make sense at first glance, though you'd have to wonder why, and why they'd do all sorts of things (like cut the incoming Jews' hair, etc.) before coming into the internment camps before killing them. Seems like a waste of labor to me. Moreover, there were never any "useless" Jews as many holocaust stories seem to lead you to believe. The old were excellent for sewing clothes for the Wermacht soldiers, and the young had small enough hands to work with very small bolts and place little things together. The fact that the German and Polish governments do not allow you to do tests on the soil of concentration camps today to see if there's any human remains (through cremation or what have you) also leads to quite a bit of skepticism. If you question the second point, the third point would obviously come into question. Generally holocaust deniers are simply passed off anti-semitics and crazies. They are ridiculed, and many countries now prohibit holocaust denial. And they all do this without answering their questions and suspicions. This, in turn, makes their beliefs more firm and makes them believe that the holocaust is a conspiracy. If you truly want to end holocaust denial, you'd have to be able to address all these points in a very straightforward manner. And no, testimonials do not count for they fall under the same criticism that testimonials in a court of law do (that is, various psychological effects such as retroactive interference, etc.). Hope that clears up why some people may go as far as to deny the holocaust. -- Posted by exxys at 7:54 am on Nov. 8, 2008 I don't know why they deny it happened... How did 12 million people just disappear off the face of the earth? -- Posted by The Samsoniteman at 9:46 am on Nov. 8, 2008 Bud2400's post is a good one. The confusion over the intent of the Nazis with regard to the Jewish question is down to the evolution of policy regarding Jews. The start is the passive-aggressive expulsion of Jews from Germany by legislating against them. Then you begin to get forced expulsion/internment. In the last few years of the Third Reich you find a huge increase in internment and mass execution of Jews. Most people don't appreciate this development within the Nazi ruling elite between the early 30s to '45, hence the confusion. Mix mostly racist people with this ignorance of history and you get a holocaust denier. -- Posted by Aimforthehead at 10:42 am on Nov. 8, 2008 I never outright denied it, it is very obviously over dramatized though. There being almost no evidence is what confused me. We got personal stories but that's about it. -- Posted by kidd rune at 11:13 am on Nov. 8, 2008 The first point generally looks at the demographic data of Jews pre and post WWII in Europe and Europe only, and it's only done on a national scale. In other words, Poland would only count the number of Polish Jews pre and post WWII and not consider whether or not those Jews may have migrated elsewhere, perhaps outside Europe to the United States or Israel. I've looked all over the internet for a reliable statistic on the world Jewish population pre and post WWII, but I am unable to find anything other than immediately before it. Anything after it comes many decades after WWII, where the Jewish population would obviously have shrunk given their fertility levels. There are other things too: Not enough space to possibly hold that many people. Not enough time. Not effective killing methods. There are many more. The third point deals with the simple fact that there is no room solely for gas chambers, but that they're combined with showers. It might make sense at first glance, though you'd have to wonder why, and why they'd do all sorts of things (like cut the incoming Jews' hair, etc.) before coming into the internment camps before killing them. Seems like a waste of labor to me. Moreover, there were never any "useless" Jews as many holocaust stories seem to lead you to believe. The old were excellent for sewing clothes for the Wermacht soldiers, and the young had small enough hands to work with very small bolts and place little things together. The fact that the German and Polish governments do not allow you to do tests on the soil of concentration camps today to see if there's any human remains (through cremation or what have you) also leads to quite a bit of skepticism. If you question the second point, the third point would obviously come into question. Also, people have proven that there is no residue from gassing at Auschwitz and maybe some other gas chambers. Now it's illegal to actually test if it happened. Funny, huh? "Truth does not fear investigation". Hope that clears up why some people may go as far as to deny the holocaust. You guys should also see: http://onethirdoftheholocaust.com or you can read at http://vho.org/Intro/GB/index.html The guy who made VHO actually tested and PROVED that there was no gassing at Auschwitz. He came to the USA, made this site, they pushed him BACK in Germany and he was stuck in jail. In the last few years of the Third Reich you find a huge increase in internment and mass execution of Jews Mass execution ≠ piles of dead bodies. Most of those bodies died from typhus - something the Nazis couldn't stop from happening. I never outright denied it, it is very obviously over dramatized though. I don't know one person that denies it - but many that are "Holocaust deniers" It's defined as denying anything that is thrown as the truth - be it skin lampshades or shrunken heads - denying it is a crime in many countries and you WILL be labeled racist. -- Posted by justin1990rm at 12:45 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 so many people(jews) have written about their experiences in concentrations camps. why would/how could they lie about things like that? -- Posted by kidd rune at 12:53 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Quote: from justin1990rm at 3:45 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 so many people(jews) have written about their experiences in concentrations camps. why would/how could they lie about things like that? To make you feel sorry for them. For guilt. For reparations (Money!) For their own country. For power. I can't read their minds - but many of their stories are complete and utter lies. -- Posted by justin1990rm at 12:57 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Quote: from kidd rune at 12:53 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 Quote: from justin1990rm at 3:45 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 so many people(jews) have written about their experiences in concentrations camps. why would/how could they lie about things like that? To make you feel sorry for them. For guilt. For reparations (Money!) For their own country. For power.   I can't read their minds - but many of their stories are complete and utter lies. if u cant read minds, how would u know that -- Posted by kidd rune at 1:01 pm on Nov. 8, 2008 if u cant read minds, how would u know that Those are guesses - but they must have some motive to lie so much.