Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by Anonymous at 10:31 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 Plato wrote Allegory of the Cave which in a way could directly be related to the movie The Matrix. If anybody has read Plato's work and seen the movie, do you think this is reality or an illusion? Could we be living in a "matrix", like Neo was? If this was all an illusion, and you were in Neo's position, which pill would you take? Would you rather stay in this matrix or live in the real world? There has also been a question posed that asks how do we tell dreams apart from reality. There is no certain way of knowing that we are awake or asleep. We think we can by our experiences of being awake and asleep, but is this really an efficient way to tell it apart? -- Posted by Style Out at 10:34 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 We're in the matrix, cuz I can do cartwheels nigga -- Posted by isobel at 10:35 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 I know Plato's work, but I fell asleep watching the Matrix, so I can't really compare. I can relate to Plato, not in the sense of there being two worlds, but in the way knowledge is perceived. I don't know if the Matrix approaches that matter. -- Posted by Catacomb at 10:35 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 the matrix is an illusion -- Posted by HuffleHaire at 10:36 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 I feel like this is a really deep question that we won't know the answer to no matter how long and hard we think about it. I feel like most people would have just taken the pill that kept them in the illusion, because that is what they know, and people like to stick to that Knowing me, once I knew that there was another reality, I'd have to turn around in my chair and walk up to the light. And then I'd walk back down to educate those stuck looking at the shadows of reality. Or just laugh at them. -- Posted by Ramellan at 10:40 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 we are in a matrix -- Posted by rosebud at 10:42 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 Quote: from HuffleHaire at 5:36 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 I feel like this is a really deep question that we won't know the answer to no matter how long and hard we think about it.   I feel like most people would have just taken the pill that kept them in the illusion, because that is what they know, and people like to stick to that Knowing me, once I knew that there was another reality, I'd have to turn around in my chair and walk up to the light. And then I'd walk back down to educate those stuck looking at the shadows of reality. Or just laugh at them. yeah you are way better than most people -- Posted by rosebud at 10:43 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 and no we are not in a matrix -- Posted by Anonymous at 10:51 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 Quote: from Catacomb at 11:35 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 the matrix is an illusion Well, duh. That is exactly what it is, but is our world? and no we are not in a matrix How do you know? Can you prove it? This is a very philosophical question, so HuffleHaire, you're correct. Chances are, there will never be a correct answer. -- Posted by rosebud at 10:55 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 Quote: from Anonymous at 5:51 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 and no we are not in a matrix How do you know? Can you prove it? i can't prove it the same way i can't prove beyond doubt that you aren't a reptilian shapeshifter from mars, but i'm comfortable with my position -- Posted by Catacomb at 10:58 pm on Nov. 19, 2008 illusions are not real, the world is. you were supposed to deduce that -- Posted by ItsNotOverEvenAfter at 8:22 am on Nov. 20, 2008 This is our reality. There is no escaping the fact that this our reality either. We must face this fact ready and willing. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 8:32 am on Nov. 20, 2008 In one way or another, the lives we're living now are reality. Personally, I highly doubt that we're living in a Matrix of sorts, but anything's possible. Unlikely, but possible. -- Posted by Blackadder at 8:22 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 4:32 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 In one way or another, the lives we're living now are reality. Personally, I highly doubt that we're living in a Matrix of sorts, but anything's possible. Unlikely, but possible. I find it highly odd that the word "Unlikely" should creep in there.   what is there on earth to suggest it is "unlikely"?, how would you deny my assertion that it is not "Unlikely" but "almost certain"?? O.P 1) I think you would do better with reference to Descartes than Plato.   2) one powerful philosophical point that "the matrix" missed was that there seems to be the idea that "we can know of things" -- but such is not the case. suppose the following arguement and present it to Neo. p.1) The Machines keep control by tricking us into thinking the illusion is real p.2) if they can build a Matrix "1", they can build a 2nd or "backup" matrix (just in case the first should fail in some way) now ask Neo this: how can you know that Morpheus has shown him the real world? what makes him so sure that this real world is not simply another illusion?   ...isnt it equally true that he could have been awake, and then started dreaming? (in other worlds, the first world was the real world, the world of Zion and machines the dream)   Indeed, how can Neo know he knows anything? this if the flaw in the Pill question, how do we know that, when we wake, our eyes will see things for what they actually are -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 8:36 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 *shrug* It's a fictional situation created for a movie, and we know that it's a fictional situation created for a movie. Not to mention that I tend to think that if it was real, more glitches would be noticed in the fake reality that was created. But hey, if you want to believe that you only exist in a little computer world, you go right ahead. -- Posted by Blackadder at 9:00 pm on Nov. 20, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 4:36 am on Nov. 21, 2008 *shrug* It's a fictional situation created for a movie, and we know that it's a fictional situation created for a movie. Not to mention that I tend to think that if it was real, more glitches would be noticed in the fake reality that was created. But hey, if you want to believe that you only exist in a little computer world, you go right ahead. but that is to miss the point.   we know that the matrix is fiction, but the question is: should we suppose the necessary premises for it to be possibly true are true (eg. machines can think & make a matrix, put us within it, etc) then how can we be sure it is merely possibly true (e.g hypothetical) and not actually true?   Dont come back here and tell me you have solved All descartes doubt by simply proclaiming "dont worry! its a fiction!" and btw, the part you wrote in bold is inherently false, I wonder if you can work out why. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:19 am on Nov. 21, 2008 It's inherently false because it helps your argument for it to be inherently false. That said, I really see no reason to believe that we're in some magical happy funtimes computer simulation and, what's more, no reason for anyone to psyche themselves out thinking that we are. There is zero evidence pointing in that direction; it's not even one of the top conspiracy theories of all time. -- Posted by envythesin at 5:56 am on Nov. 21, 2008 I'm half and half on this one because I saw some good responses. We will never know what is real or what is not. if you think about it, What we see is only what our eyes want us to see. This arguement could go on forever, it all depends on how superstitious the person is. -- Posted by Blackadder at 4:58 pm on Nov. 21, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:19 pm on Nov. 21, 2008 It's inherently false because it helps your argument for it to be inherently false. That said, I really see no reason to believe that we're in some magical happy funtimes computer simulation and, what's more, no reason for anyone to psyche themselves out thinking that we are. There is zero evidence pointing in that direction; it's not even one of the top conspiracy theories of all time. for fuck sake!   why must you be so fucking difficualt!? haven't you ever heard of Epistomology? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't speak in such an ignorant way. Educate thyself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy    (meditation I being the most important). It's inherently false because it helps your argument for it to be inherently false. sigh.... how about  I'll just tell you the fucking awnser? ....if knowledge is posteriori, how could we ever know what a "computer glitch" is?   how could you ever know what "Red" looks like simply by reference to the colours you can see? (e.g could you describe "red" to a colourblind man by refering to how similiar/disimiliar it is to pink/blue? hence, the statement is inherently false it's not even one of the top conspiracy theories of all time I am not making fucking conspiracy theories, to think it as such is a grave error. We are making a philosophical enquiry, not some crazy UFO/Area 51 horse-shit -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 6:48 pm on Nov. 21, 2008 Dude. Chill. If you want to think that we're in a computer, good for you. Have fun with that. -- Posted by Clouse227 at 7:07 pm on Nov. 21, 2008 We might or might not be living in a matrix. We will most likely never know. Dont bother with it. Accept this world as reality and make the most of it. Also, look up "Solipsism." It'll help. -- Posted by LittleBombs at 7:13 am on Nov. 22, 2008 Who knows? We could be. -- Posted by dramaqueenxoxo at 1:15 pm on Nov. 22, 2008 I have studied 'The Cave'... I don't think that someone has deliberately put us into a cave/ matrix... We are slaves to ourselves, to wanting security and reassurance. If we were able to break out from needing these things then we would be 'free'... I would like to believe 'The Matrix', but I don't see how we would ever find out. We have created the Matrix ourselves and only those outside reality (like crazy people) can see the world and it's people for what they truly are (a concept I borrowed from BTVS). If that makes any sense -- Posted by Anonymous at 7:51 pm on Nov. 23, 2008 I like how people with ignorant and closed minds come into this philosophical forum. If you can't open your mind up, don't reply to topics such as these. This theory could be just as good as the Bible, which is why some people believe in the Bible, some don't and some just don't care. Yeah, we may have alot of questions answered especially psychologically and scientifically which could deny much of the question at hand, but remember that there was a time when we had the wrong answers to these questions. -- Posted by medjai at 9:52 pm on Nov. 23, 2008 Look through my topic history I have a better written thingy on the matrix and it will interest you op. -- Posted by Bacon at 10:18 pm on Nov. 23, 2008 The Universe itself is an enigma. We barely understand how it all began - the big bang is a big blur. We can't really say how all this energy came into existence from seemingly nothing. The Universal laws, the Universe's origins, all of these things just scream (at least, to me) that this Universe has been designed or is some kind of grandeur simulation/program.   -- Posted by Anonymous at 10:22 pm on Nov. 23, 2008 My boyfriend's little sister came up with the question. It's actually not a bad one at all. She asks what if there was never a beginning and we just are? All the planets and the universe have always just been? There is no 100% fact to prove this otherwise. -- Posted by theyareAs at 7:12 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Im personally a Solipsist (Solipsism). We THINK that everything about the world isn't real, because you simply cant prove 100% that You, I, and everyone are real. There is one exception and that is ones mind. That is the only thing that is definetly real to oneself. So in a way yes, but no. But thats just me -- Posted by greatescape at 7:24 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Quote: from Anonymous at 12:31 am on Nov. 20, 2008 Is this really an efficient way to tell it apart? No. But what else do we have to go off of aside from our own sensory and perception? If we open the can of "what-if's", then really anything could be possible.  That's why the Matrix is good movie fodder....it's fun to think about but kind of silly to seriously consider. -- Posted by Event Horizon at 7:33 pm on Nov. 25, 2008 Actually, there are some proponents who claim that the probability of this being a simulation is quite high. http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html Pages: 1 2  Next