-- Posted by pleaseremove at 6:27 am on June 11, 2009 We are always hearing that this is the year Linux goes mainstream in the desktop market. I am certainly not convinced we are there yet, too much of installations and drivers requires command line. I think perhaps we will get there in maybe 3-5 years time when I actually feel I could use it day to day as my machine OS. What are your thoughts? Reasons for your views are always good, especially specifics. -- Posted by Darkane at 6:29 am on June 11, 2009 As soon as commercial software is available for it. That being software that the average consumer is aware of. I know there's plenty of open source or free alternatives but not a lot of people would be too trusting, they'd just prefer to stick by a name they know. So it may be a while yet. -- Posted by Dissilusioned at 6:29 am on June 11, 2009 I once tried installing Linux. I nearly cried it was that complicated. The manual was thicker than my Psychology textbook was. -- Posted by Dissilusioned at 6:31 am on June 11, 2009 Therefore, I can only deduce that gaining an a level in psychology is easier than installing Linux successfully. -- Posted by tell me again at 6:58 am on June 11, 2009 linux is way too up its own ass to be home-friendly anyway, its got a niche of its own, why mainstream it i voted 'never' -- Posted by allsmiles at 8:08 am on June 11, 2009 Never. People don't trust stuff they don't pay for. For whatever reason. -- Posted by Daveh at 10:59 am on June 11, 2009 It has become a lot more user friendly now, and in some ways i think its allready suitable for the more advanced PC user. but even in 5-6 years time when its just as easy to use as windows is. Its not going to be ready for the home user till software developers start supporting it. -- Posted by espresso8097 at 11:34 am on June 11, 2009 It is easier than it was 3 years ago (about when I started messing with it).  For most things, it is possible to do the basics easily, without the terminal.  The major exception to ease usually comes with Wireless drivers. Pretty sure most people would be able to handle it in 2-5 years.  Just a matter of manufacturers noticing that they are building a decent share in the market and releasing drivers. -- Posted by pleaseremove at 12:14 pm on June 11, 2009 The one thing I am really waiting for is decent multi-monitor support.... At the moment anything up to two is fine, after that not so much luck... At current it has been like that for a year and a half... -- Posted by Macropiper at 11:57 pm on June 11, 2009 It already mostly is, the main problems preventing people from using it seem to be certain drivers and commercial software support. I have heard little about any other areas where the user experience is really inferior to that on either Windows (which isn't saying much) or OSX. As for the problems I do know about... The problems with drivers cannot be resolved unless the hardware manufacturers are willing to provide specifications for drivers to be written. Wireless network cards are particularly problematic, although the situation is improving as more companies get a clue and help out. Broadcom are still fucking useless bastards. nVidia is also a problem, sure, the proprietary driver works fine, but most distributions won't ship it, and it tends to break with some new versions of Xorg. Its probably obvious that I am somewhat angry at the hardware manufacturers that are still being useless bastards. Its a pain to have to look to see if some piece of hardware will work, I would much rather be able to just buy something, plug it in, and have it work immediately, if all hardware manufacturers had a clue and allowed decent open source drivers to be written, then this would be the situation in nearly all cases. As for the commercial software, its a problem, won't be made to work on Linux until it becomes more popular, Linux won't be more popular till it exists, not sure how that could be fixed. Video and Audio codecs are also a problem that isn't going away until the patents on nearly all of the common ones expire or software patents no longer exist. Linux is the only operating system installed on my laptop that isn't in a virtual machine. Granted, most of what I do on the computer is programming, browsing the internet and watching videos. I do not need things like Microsoft Office or  Photoshop. I do need to test websites in IE, but I have Windows Vista in a virtual machine for that. Other people obviously have different requirements. I also have a gaming machine, which usually runs XP, though I do have Fedora on there for things like ripping CDs and DVDs and transcoding media. -- Posted by Sector Corrupt at 1:00 am on June 12, 2009 Meh, at this point really with super user friendly distros like Ubuntu most of the time you don't even need to use the command line. That said I'd prefer that it doesn't become hyper mainstream. As it is with the ease of use lately it's gotten a lot of attention from people who think they're good with computers latching on. I'm fine with a steady stream of new users, but only to the extent that Unix Culture is preserved. It's that hacker ethic, and the keeping to the old ways of customizable, simple programs that really makes linux great. Besides, if you can't use a command line you really shouldn't be using Linux since you're  not taking advantage of one of the best features. -- Posted by Macropiper at 1:14 am on June 12, 2009 Quote: from Sector Corrupt at 8:00 pm on June 12, 2009 Besides, if you can't use a command line you really shouldn't be using Linux since you're not taking advantage of one of the best features. I disagree with this, besides, one can make similar statements for OSX and Windows too. Most people use computers knowing far less than they probably should know about them to operate them in a reasonably secure manner. -- Posted by Sector Corrupt at 1:33 am on June 12, 2009 Quote: from Macropiper at 4:14 am on June 12, 2009 Quote: from Sector Corrupt at 8:00 pm on June 12, 2009 Besides, if you can't use a command line you really shouldn't be using Linux since you're  not taking advantage of one of the best features. I disagree with this, besides, one can make similar statements for OSX and Windows too. Most people use computers knowing far less than they probably should know about them to operate them in a reasonably secure manner. Admittedly, but at least with those operating systems there's not nearly the same cultural thing. Linux grew up in the strong Unix culture with Open Source ideals, and sometimes I worry than an influx of people who just want a free operating system that doesn't get viruses will dilute the whole hacker/programmer culture and ethic that is part of what I love about Linux. I'm fine if people come over to Linux and learn to be like the rest of us, but ignorant users are worse than less users in my books.   -- Posted by drifting at 9:37 pm on June 13, 2009 Coming Pre-loaded (see netbooks and the occasional desktop) it works, and I believe it is 99% usable when preloaded. The only real problem is that people dont understand what it is, and expect Windows apps to work on it, simply because its a computer that isnt a Mac. They dont understand that its a completely different OS. As for separate installations, it will never be entirely user friendly because, again, most people dont understand it. Combine that with crappy drivers (which I do see improving over the next three years or so) and its hard for the average user to use. I do think it has gotten better, and most people who are computer literate can probably handle installing it, provided all of their hardware is supported. -- Posted by ihax at 4:59 pm on June 23, 2009 I feel as though it is already ready. Dell is selling computers with Ubuntu on them pre-loaded. Asus is selling their EEE series netbook computers with Xandros linux pre-installed. HP launched a netbook with SuSE Linux on it. WIND (I believe thats the company's name) is selling netbooks with gOS (Linux) It's happening... -- Posted by anonomouse at 3:12 am on June 29, 2009 Linux won't go mainstream because it is built to be customized and hacked. It will probably only be used by tech professionals/enthusiasts. The only time linux can be used by normal people is when a company takes it and creates their ow distribution and provides support. The problem with linux is that it is free--therefore it is made by lots of different people with different ideas on how they want it to run/look. Also, a lot of those people are not professionals and are not the top in their field. One of the areas linux completely fails in is usability and user interface. OS X and Windows will always be more usable and have a better interface simply because interface designers get huge salaries and don't have the time to devote to free stuff. -- Posted by Sector Corrupt at 5:36 am on June 29, 2009 Quote: from anonomouse at 6:12 am on June 29, 2009 Linux won't go mainstream because it is built to be customized and hacked. It will probably only be used by tech professionals/enthusiasts. The only time linux can be used by normal people is when a company takes it and creates their ow distribution and provides support. The problem with linux is that it is free--therefore it is made by lots of different people with different ideas on how they want it to run/look. Also, a lot of those people are not professionals and are not the top in their field. One of the areas linux completely fails in is usability and user interface. OS X and Windows will always be more usable and have a better interface simply because interface designers get huge salaries and don't have the time to devote to free stuff. Not quite true, jus because you're a developer at work for a large company doesn't mean you don't work on open source projects. I know several PhD's at my work who contribute to various Open Source projects, one of whom's personal Open source project is being adapted for use by the company... Also, there are people paid to work on Linux as well, from companies that contribute to the whole "Open source" thing. -- Posted by anonomouse at 12:32 am on June 30, 2009 Quote: from Sector Corrupt at 5:36 am on June 29, 2009 Not quite true, jus because you're a developer at work for a large company doesn't mean you don't work on open source projects. I know several PhD's at my work who contribute to various Open Source projects, one of whom's personal Open source project is being adapted for use by the company... Also, there are people paid to work on Linux as well, from companies that contribute to the whole "Open source" thing. Yes, very true. What I meant to say is that the best developers spend most of their time working for big businesses. (meaning that there is no way the interface designers of OS X are going to leave apple and work on KDE). The problem is that professional people all contribute a little to the entire linux "project" (if you will), but they don't all sit down and collaborate. In designing an operating system like OS X or Leopard, everybody is on the same page. (Certain linux distros do something similar, but they don't sit down with the gnome/kde/xfce engineers to make sure everything will work with their specific distro, etc.)