-- Posted by Amin mele lle at 3:23 pm on June 28, 2009 http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-ynapayi-support-a.html *sigh* I still can't decide. both sides give decent arguments. The polls are at 50/50. People aren't making this easy on me. My budget is just a little over a grand... Hopefully other users are on so people can give me more opinions. Help, please. :) Also, I know the new Windows 7 or whatever is coming out soon... Anyone know anything about that? -- Posted by Energizer Bunny at 3:23 pm on June 28, 2009 What do you need it for? -- Posted by jk012807 at 3:24 pm on June 28, 2009 i love my mac... -- Posted by Chasey at 3:24 pm on June 28, 2009 haha -- Posted by ScarletsWalk at 3:25 pm on June 28, 2009 Mac all the way. Windows are crap. -- Posted by Total Destruction at 3:25 pm on June 28, 2009 Quote: from ScarletsWalk at 3:25 pm on June 28, 2009 Mac all the way. Windows are crap. I have windows and I agree entirely -- Posted by Mikoto at 3:26 pm on June 28, 2009 mac mac mac mac mac -- Posted by zamrambo at 3:26 pm on June 28, 2009 Quote: from ScarletsWalk at 5:25 pm on June 28, 2009 Mac all the way. Windows are crap. It's a PC, Windows is the OS. -- Posted by ArtFreak at 3:26 pm on June 28, 2009 It depends what you need it for it's a horrible horrible choice, I use a pc for most things, personally, given the choice, I'd choose a mac in terms of programs but also simplicity, style and security. Good luck choosing (: -- Posted by oink at 3:27 pm on June 28, 2009 pleaseremove summed it up nicely. Quote: from pleaseremove at 9:39 am on June 9, 2009 We need a bit more detail on what you want this for.   First, gaming, you mention WoW, but are there any other games you play etc or want to be able to play. There is a gaming scene for the Mac, however, it is considerably more limited. If some games are important to you then you have little choice in the matter.   Next, although some have mentioned if you want Photoshop then you want a Mac, they are ignoring the fact that as you well know it runs fine under Windows. There are also some fairly considerable differences between how the two versions work.   Photos makes no difference, yes, Macs get bundled with iPhoto, however windows Live photo is as close to the same really. Similar feature set, both free. In short, makes no real difference which OS you use.   Next we comes to Music, you say "Many different music programs". Do you just listen to music or do you actually record and mix it etc. If so what do you use? If you are using software to do this on the PC there is a possibility this will not be available to you on the Mac and you would have to learn something new. If you just listen to Music then iTunes is on the Mac and Windows Media player for Windows (both highly capable and and have almost identical feature sets). Also, iTunes is available for Windows users too.   There is nothing wrong with Vista, it is a perfectly good OS, anyone who tells you to avoid it, ask them why, ask for specifics... If you are going to avoid something at least know why.   Then it comes down to performance and price. You will find a lot more Windows laptops in the lower to mid end of the market where as Macs have very little in this category. Higher end then Apple have some very nice offerings, but again, you are rather spoilt for choice with the PC market. Quote: from ScarletsWalk at 11:25 pm on June 28, 2009 Mac all the way. Windows are crap. Mind explainning why? -- Posted by Opiate Corsair at 3:28 pm on June 28, 2009 I played WoW on my MacBook and it ran very well (I also only have 1gig of RAM). I also have a computer that runs Vista and I definitely prefer OS X over that just for the ease of use. For the uses you listed on that other topic, a Mac would have no problem satisfying your needs. And the rebate for an iPod Touch isn't a bad deal at all either. -- Posted by yebuddy at 3:30 pm on June 28, 2009 macs are over priced and under powered its windows all the way for compatibility and value for money -- Posted by vanquisher91 at 3:42 pm on June 28, 2009 A PC is a lot easier to keep up to date than a Mac. I've tried fixing macs before and it's impossible to do anything without voiding the warranty. With a PC, you can interchange hardware much easier and it's loads cheaper as there is much more competition with PC hardware. I was attempting to update a mac with new ram, but was told that just opening the case would void the warranty. I then called the retailer and asked them how much they would charge to update the ram from 512mb to 2gb. They told me it would cost in the range of $100. With a PC, I can go online and buy 2gb of ram for $40 and change it myself in 2mins with no hassle at all. Mac Pro: Hands off computer that you shouldn't need to touch to get it to work. Con: Should something go wrong, it's an absolute nightmare to try to fix it. And, it is a complete myth that macs don't get viruses or spyware. Even worse, there are virtually no anti-virus/spyware programs made for macs due to this myth. PC Pro: Very easy to update and interchange hardware.   Pro: OS's come out every few years rather than one huge $200 dollar version every time a feature gets added like mac. Pro: Windows has a lot of support and free updates are released almost every week, updates like security and virus protection are also free, and windows has built in protection. Pro: Software is usually made for PC's first and foremost, while the mac versions are prone to many more errors and glitches due to the exclusivity of the mac os.   Pro: Say you buy a PC and 3 years later you want to upgrade, most macs you have to buy a whole new system, while with a PC you can spend a fraction of that cost and upgrade your hardware separately. Con: You may have to read up on how to upgrade certain things, it isn't always ready right out of the box, and you can expect to learn a few new things about how to run and use a PC. Here is what I tell friends of mine: If you want an easy no-fuss computer for home media like pictures, video and bloging, get a mac. It's simple, and you won't be confused with all the features you don't need. Simply put, macs are not for games like WoW, maybe solitare or majong, but not big games. If, however, you want a computer for gaming, software, and one that you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to upgrade down the road, get a PC. They are a little more difficult to use, but the features and versatility you get with a PC is unrivaled. In short anything a mac can do, a pc can do better. As to windows 7: It's basically vista repackaged as a new OS without all the issues vista has. The biggest issue with vista was compatibility with hardware. Apparently windows 7 has fixed this. Personally, I have used vista problem free for the last year. I did have to upgrade my computer to make it vista compatible, but I'd rather spend 500$ upgrading my computer to work with vista than spend out the wazoo for a gaming mac which is on par with the bare minimum pc gaming standard. -- Posted by anonomouse at 3:05 am on June 29, 2009 Macs are easier to use and 'just work' but they don't have as many customization options. If you don't want to think about using a computer, get a mac. On the other hand, if you want to have a really fine-tuned control over how everything works, get a PC. Some things in windows don't quite work right and aren't optimized to "just work". Windows is much more complex, but with the complexity, you gain more control than with OS X. Personally, I prefer OS X because I don't like to worry about how my computer is working. -- Posted by pleaseremove at 5:12 am on June 29, 2009 Quote: from anonomouse at 11:05 am on June 29, 2009 Macs are easier to use and 'just work' but they don't have as many customization options. If you don't want to think about using a computer, get a mac. On the other hand, if you want to have a really fine-tuned control over how everything works, get a PC. Some things in windows don't quite work right and aren't optimized to "just work". Windows is much more complex, but with the complexity, you gain more control than with OS X. Personally, I prefer OS X because I don't like to worry about how my computer is working. Taking into account that most people buy a machine from the shops with windows preloaded onto it I would like you to explain which part of windows doesn't "just work". -- Posted by anonomouse at 12:39 am on June 30, 2009 Quote: from pleaseremove at 5:12 am on June 29, 2009 Taking into account that most people buy a machine from the shops with windows preloaded onto it I would like you to explain which part of windows doesn't "just work". I've personally encountered many computers that are bought directly from "the shop" and don't work. The hardware is not always compatible and you often have to install your own software. For example, look at lightscribe drives on PCs. They come preinstalled on many computers and are advertised. What they don't tell you is that they are incredibly hard to use and you will have to buy extra software to be able to do that much of anything with them. To me, that doesn't constitute "just working". Also, Windows works perfectly fine, it just sometimes takes a bit more tweaking. By saying OS X "just works", I am saying that it tries to autodetect everything (for example, networks "just work" using bonjour). And I'm not bashing windows--I actually thing with the release of snow leopard and windows 7 that the playing field will be pretty much leveled out. OS X works seamlessly with all its hardware because support for everything is built directly into the operating system. The downside of this is that you will not be able to use as much hardware. With windows, you will be able to use more hardware, but it will be harder to get to work. You may need to scour the internet for drivers to get your computer to go on standby... -- Posted by pleaseremove at 3:33 am on June 30, 2009 Quote: from anonomouse at 8:39 am on June 30, 2009 Quote: from pleaseremove at 5:12 am on June 29, 2009  Taking into account that most people buy a machine from the shops with windows preloaded onto it I would like you to explain which part of windows doesn't "just work". I've personally encountered many computers that are bought directly from "the shop" and don't work. The hardware is not always compatible and you often have to install your own software. For example, look at lightscribe drives on PCs. They come preinstalled on many computers and are advertised. What they don't tell you is that they are incredibly hard to use and you will have to buy extra software to be able to do that much of anything with them. To me, that doesn't constitute "just working". Also, Windows works perfectly fine, it just sometimes takes a bit more tweaking. By saying OS X "just works", I am saying that it tries to autodetect everything (for example, networks "just work" using bonjour). And I'm not bashing windows--I actually thing with the release of snow leopard and windows 7 that the playing field will be pretty much leveled out. OS X works seamlessly with all its hardware because support for everything is built directly into the operating system. The downside of this is that you will not be able to use as much hardware. With windows, you will be able to use more hardware, but it will be harder to get to work. You may need to scour the internet for drivers to get your computer to go on standby... Nope, I still don't see the difference... Networks just work? As in like they do under Windows? I plug in a printer and yes, I don't get all it's fancy features, but I can print. The basic drivers do a fair bit. Windows Vista comes with over 6 gig of printer drivers... how much more out of the box do you want? I have a bluetooth adapter for my machine, I plugged it in, it worked. It actually took some fairly recent patches to my Apple for that to happen under OSX. As far as i can tell, you are saying that you think more stuff works out of the box with OSX and I have to say I disagree, I would say they are very much the same when it comes to out of the box 3rd party kit working. Of course, the benefit that windows has is that there a lot more drivers written for it so you have a lot more choice in hardware too. As for light scribe drives, I have not heard of a machine that came with a drive and without the software... Do apple provide lightscribe software with their machines? -- Posted by anonomouse at 11:39 pm on July 1, 2009 Quote: from pleaseremove at 3:33 am on June 30, 2009 Nope, I still don't see the difference... Networks just work? As in like they do under Windows? I plug in a printer and yes, I don't get all it's fancy features, but I can print. The basic drivers do a fair bit. Windows Vista comes with over 6 gig of printer drivers... how much more out of the box do you want? I have a bluetooth adapter for my machine, I plugged it in, it worked. It actually took some fairly recent patches to my Apple for that to happen under OSX. As far as i can tell, you are saying that you think more stuff works out of the box with OSX and I have to say I disagree, I would say they are very much the same when it comes to out of the box 3rd party kit working. Of course, the benefit that windows has is that there a lot more drivers written for it so you have a lot more choice in hardware too. As for light scribe drives, I have not heard of a machine that came with a drive and without the software... Do apple provide lightscribe software with their machines? The problem with windows is that there are so many drivers that the standard ones just don't work. I have spent countless hours scouring the internet, trying to find the perfect driver (i.e. one that works) so I can use my computer. Usually they're really hard to find. Apple doesn't have lightscribe drives, so they don't ship software with them. That's what I'm saying--Apple limits the types of hardware you can get (you can't get a lightscribe drive), but they provide really good support for every piece of hardware in the system. Even if a computer works fine when you buy it from the store, most of the recovery cds don't include drivers (I don't know why, it is really frustrating, and I am really mad at Gateway right now, but it's true). If something ever happens, it's a pain to get it running again. See this. Also, I'm just speaking from experience. When I have spent countless hours getting something to work in windows, it just works right away in os x (on a hackintosh at that). Neither one is better than the other, IMO--they are just different. Windows can't "just work" like OS X does and OS X can't have as much compatibility and portability as Windows without having windows' pitfalls. -- Posted by pleaseremove at 1:55 am on July 2, 2009 Quote: from anonomouse at 7:39 am on July 2, 2009 Quote: from pleaseremove at 3:33 am on June 30, 2009  Nope, I still don't see the difference... Networks just work? As in like they do under Windows?    I plug in a printer and yes, I don't get all it's fancy features, but I can print. The basic drivers do a fair bit. Windows Vista comes with over 6 gig of printer drivers... how much more out of the box do you want?    I have a bluetooth adapter for my machine, I plugged it in, it worked. It actually took some fairly recent patches to my Apple for that to happen under OSX.    As far as i can tell, you are saying that you think more stuff works out of the box with OSX and I have to say I disagree, I would say they are very much the same when it comes to out of the box 3rd party kit working. Of course, the benefit that windows has is that there a lot more drivers written for it so you have a lot more choice in hardware too.    As for light scribe drives, I have not heard of a machine that came with a drive and without the software... Do apple provide lightscribe software with their machines? The problem with windows is that there are so many drivers that the standard ones just don't work. I have spent countless hours scouring the internet, trying to find the perfect driver (i.e. one that works) so I can use my computer. Usually they're really hard to find. Apple doesn't have lightscribe drives, so they don't ship software with them. That's what I'm saying--Apple limits the types of hardware you can get (you can't get a lightscribe drive), but they provide really good support for every piece of hardware in the system. Even if a computer works fine when you buy it from the store, most of the recovery cds don't include drivers (I don't know why, it is really frustrating, and I am really mad at Gateway right now, but it's true). If something ever happens, it's a pain to get it running again. See this. Also, I'm just speaking from experience. When I have spent countless hours getting something to work in windows, it just works right away in os x (on a hackintosh at that). Neither one is better than the other, IMO--they are just different. Windows can't "just work" like OS X does and OS X can't have as much compatibility and portability as Windows without having windows' pitfalls. Firstly, having read that article you linked to I would love to know what he was doing because some of that isn't even possible. If you are short a codec it will tell you this, take you to a help page and then give you details to download it. Myself I don't see this happen very often because I download a codec pack on day one to ensure I can play anything, but I have done this many times on other peoples machines and it is painfully easy. I can think of one device in the last 5 years that I had to go around hunting for drivers for, and it was an old non standard bluetooth device. I have since replaced it because it never worked on my Mac. The one I replaced it with worked fine first time under both Windows and the Mac. I had to install printer drivers once, but you know, I had to do that on the Mac too... so in short, meh. To come back to that article you linked to for a moment, I agree that there was clearly some crappy software he was talking about and I agree this is one hell of a pain. But you will always end up with crappy software, usually from companies that don't really know how to write it, they just spit it out with their products. I find the built in tools to do pretty much everything you need when it comes to software that comes with devices (so music playing and organising, picture management etc). I would also say that he was comparing completely different spec machines, some of those tasks just can't take that long. As for anti virus, well, Norton and McAfee are both piles of shit, have been for years. I find Kaspersky does me just fine. Oh, I loved his comment about how if you were about to install a fake flash programme that contained a virus all windows does is ask you if you are sure etc... and then he bitches that they could do more. Firstly, no they could not do more, short of scanning the file with anti virus (which they are not allowed to include, but have started making their own version of). Secondly, this is exactly what the Mac does... Finally, I have not seen a recovery CD or partition that did not come with the drivers... As a side note based on my experiences with both OS's having owned and fixed both for a very long time I would actually say that they have a similar number of crashes and faults. As often as you might have a crappy bit of software for Windows you don't even get that software for the Mac. Same for the hardware. I saw a talk by someone not that long ago who was complaining about how he tried to install something on his mac and it kept coming up with a fairly useless error message. He want on-line and peoples answer was your doing it wrong. When a Mac goes wrong people blame the user, when a PC goes wrong people blame Windows. I have had the same thing happen to me several times. Once when I was using iTunes and it crashed and I explained to people that is crashed and people told me I must have been doing it wrong. To this day I don't know how I managed to use such an "easy to use and intuitive system" in such a way it crashed... The other example was when I wrote a blog entry about how when connecting to a wireless network i got the error "see administrator". I got linked to from some fanboy site and got pages and pages of comment. It took a considerable number of comments before I got anything constructive that could be classed as help. As it happens none of them were much use and a friend of mine who is a big Windows user and part time Unix junky figured it out.