Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by Themakingofagod at 7:25 pm on June 29, 2009 A friend and I were having a conversation earlier today about the pros and cons of drinking.  Even through this discussion, I fail to see a valid point in drinking.  I understand it is a way of gathering with your peers and having fun, but are those people really that fun to hang around with if you need to be inebriated in order to have a good time?  I know there are studies showing health benefits to moderate drinking of alcoholic beverages, but I've yet to see anything that even remotely suggests that heavy drinking, or consumption of a lot of alcohol in a short amount of time is good for you. A lot of people drink in order to get rid of their problems.  I don't see why.  If you are going through problems, alcohol, which is a depressant, will actually cause you to feel worse about your problems, and more often than not, those problems have either remained just as they were, or worsened due to the drinking.  It's often used as a form of procrastination, which I think as most of us by now know, is only going to cause more problems in the future. Most everyone knows the physical, social, emotional, and legal dangers it could possibly put you in, but most people find it worth the fun to go out and drink, and live it up like it's the last time you'll ever get to have fun.  I see one weird logic behind this. You drink.  You have fun, as much fun as you'd have in 2 normal days, compacted into 1 night.  You wake up halfway through the next day, and you feel like you've been hit by a truck, a.k.a., a hangover.  The next day even, you're probably still not feeling the greatest, and you have to make sure the mess that was made was cleaned up, and make sure everyone else is okay, got home safely, etc...  So really, you're not gaining anymore fun into your life.  You're basically just compacting it into small time frames. I don't see why people would knowingly risk all these dangers, and pay money to go through all this, even though really, you're not gaining anything from it. -- Posted by blackbandaid at 7:32 pm on June 29, 2009 I agree with you, but have you ever drunk alcohol before? Maybe then you would understand. I occasionally drink, but I don't really enjoy it very much, and find it a waste of money. I don't understand why the rest of my peer group loves it so much, they all turn into arrogant, annoying fucks when they drink. TBH. I can't stand them. That's why I drink sometimes, because when you're drunk too, you don't notice. Bad reason, yeah. But sometimes I have fun, mainly because I'm pretty shy/uptight IRL. -- Posted by matto at 7:34 pm on June 29, 2009 Drinking isn't always the same as having a huge ass party, overdrinking, and getting a hangover.  Just saying. That being said, all the points you made are good ones to not drink. That being said, it's a choice that everyone makes for themselves.  There is no right or wrong answer to anything like that, as what's right for you may not be right for everyone else. It is very fun if done correctly, with the right people.  =D -- Posted by Ancient Rights at 7:38 pm on June 29, 2009 I see it as an excuse for behaviour that you normally wouldn't resort to. If you consume a lot of alcohol your behaviour is going to change, and you are going to act differently. There is one person in the group of people I spend most of my time with that is a big drinker, drug user, etc. I really can't stand him, but that is beside the point. Any time he tells a story about what he does when inebriated he sounds like a jackass, but he says he had a lot of fun, but when people condone him for it, his response is, "I was drunk, leave me the fuck alone." or something similar. -- Posted by Themakingofagod at 7:40 pm on June 29, 2009 Quote: from blackbandaid at 10:32 pm on June 29, 2009 I agree with you, but have you ever drunk alcohol before? Maybe then you would understand. I occasionally drink, but I don't really enjoy it very much, and find it a waste of money. I don't understand why the rest of my peer group loves it so much, they all turn into arrogant, annoying fucks when they drink. TBH. I can't stand them. That's why I drink sometimes, because when you're drunk too, you don't notice. Bad reason, yeah. But sometimes I have fun, mainly because I'm pretty shy/uptight IRL. I will admit it probably makes me somewhat bias on the topic, but I grew up around alcohol.  I live in a family of alcoholics, and my friends drink alcohol like fishes drink water.  When I am faced with a group of my peers deciding to drink, instead of partaking in said acts and causing myself to be part of the problem, I remove myself from the situation, and will see them and talk to them at a later time.  Being more outgoing is one benefit of it, but it is also masking somewhat of an issue.  Alcoholic beverages are often referred as "liquid courage," because you suddenly have had your mental filter removed, and will say and do whatever is on the top of your mind.  Yes, you're not as shy as before, but you can also say things that sober, you would have wisely avoided.  Also, it's masking the issue of learning to be socially outgoing.  Being shy or introverted isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if being shy is a reason why you get drunk, it is not a very efficient way of getting through life.  Suppose you're not making friends at work, and are not part of the team effort.  Coming into work drunk so you can have the courage to talk to them isn't going to help. -- Posted by Themakingofagod at 7:44 pm on June 29, 2009 Quote: from Ancient at 10:38 pm on June 29, 2009 I see it as an excuse for behaviour that you normally wouldn't resort to. If you consume a lot of alcohol your behaviour is going to change, and you are going to act differently. There is one person in the group of people I spend most of my time with that is a big drinker, drug user, etc. I really can't stand him, but that is beside the point. Any time he tells a story about what he does when inebriated he sounds like a jackass, but he says he had a lot of fun, but when people condone him for it, his response is, "I was drunk, leave me the fuck alone." or something similar. Exactly.  It has become an excuse for inappropriate irresponsibility.  Social drinking I can understand, but when you are no longer in control of your actions, and cannot make intelligent decisions consciously, that doesn't mean that it's okay. There is a clear, and major difference between someone who didn't know better, and someone who knew better, but allowed themselves to become impaired to the extent that they cannot be responsible members of society. Someone with a severe mental disability, if he gets into a car and ends up running over a pedestrian, although still saddening, it was an accident, he didn't know the consequences of his actions.  If someone were to get in a car drunk, and did the same thing, it is not as if he didn't know better, he impaired his judgment.  You would be just as guilty if you put on a blindfold and went for a drive, but we don't do that, because sober, we are able to make the informed decision that we should not drive blindfolded. -- Posted by Themakingofagod at 7:46 pm on June 29, 2009 Quote: from matto at 10:34 pm on June 29, 2009 Drinking isn't always the same as having a huge ass party, overdrinking, and getting a hangover. Just saying. That being said, all the points you made are good ones to not drink. That being said, it's a choice that everyone makes for themselves. There is no right or wrong answer to anything like that, as what's right for you may not be right for everyone else. It is very fun if done correctly, with the right people. =D I was referring to heavy drinking.  Even if you drink heavily alone, you can still face a host of problems, but partying is by far the most common scene of it.  moderate drinking is still okay, as long as you are still able to maintain sound judgment, but even then, I still personally don't agree with it.  Then again, this isn't about person feelings. -- Posted by Audioblood at 11:13 am on June 30, 2009 Quote: from Themakingofagod at 7:40 pm on June 29, 2009 I will admit it probably makes me somewhat bias on the topic, but I grew up around alcohol.   I won't ask the conditions of this statement, since I've heard that and its potential connotations more than I care to admit. But I would say this is probably why. I am the same way about cigarettes, although alcohol has a MUCH greater potential of abuse. It ultimately boils down to individual responsibility. The fact that alcohol is a depressant only means it slows the CNS. It doesn't literally "depress" your emotional state. In fact, I've been around numerous people who are actually quite fun (like harmless fun) when drinking. But this varies by the person. Some people drink to escape their problems, yes, but usually that is done alone, which isn't much fun. This would suggest their problems are of a deeper nature (perceived or real) than the black and white "Oh, you're not strong enough to handle life." Chemical imbalances, a predisposition to alcoholism...many things can spur the decision to drink alone. As for drinking with friends, or at parties, and such...well, this depends on who your "friends" are. If you hang out with frat boys and such, you're much more likely to be exposed to reckless behavior than a few friends at a buddy's house. Drinking with friends is more about memories than anything. Obviously it doesn't help if you get so drunk you don't remember anything, but it's just a good time. And if your friends are respectable, they will generally make responsible decisions about their limits and how to get home, etc. But yea, since memories are the only things truly personal to us that we affect yet do not directly control, we have a tendency to want as many as will make us laugh as possible. Drinking is just means to an end. But personally, I love listening to music while inebriated. It's a sorry excuse (I hardly drink anyway), but for me music is a big deal, so it's pretty awesome in that respect. -- Posted by Moridin at 11:57 am on June 30, 2009 Drinking is great! It can lead to - memory loss - loss of motor functions - fatty degeneration of the liver, liver infection, liver cirrhosis - sleeping disorders - sexual problems - premature dementia - hypertension - heart problems - death in car accidents - fetus deformation for pregnant women etc. What not to like!? -- Posted by Audioblood at 1:13 pm on June 30, 2009 In general, patients with alcoholic liver cirrhosis have been drinking heavily for 10 to 20 years, according to the Eighth Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol. About 90 percent of heavy alcohol users develop fatty liver, 40 percent have signs of alcoholic hepatitis, and 15 to 30 percent develop liver cirrhosis. Quoted site can be found here. So yeah. If you've been drinking heavily for 10 to 20 years, you have self-worth issues needing to be resolved anyway. A lot of those side effects can be avoided by responsible, moderate use. Because many people are irresponsible and gluttonous (particularly in the U.S.) there is an age limit on buying it, which is 3 years higher in the U.S. than most other places. The issue here is not the substance. If you stare at a bottle of alcohol all night, you will not get drunk. Even if you drink a whole bottle of liquor, there is nothing in the substance which MAKES you get in your car and drive off. Alcohol does not shove itself down the throats of pregnant mothers. It's really more about will-power than anything, and blaming a substance for people's actions/problems is not going to solve the underlying problem. -- Posted by Event Horizon at 6:44 pm on June 30, 2009 Quote: from Themakingofagod at 10:25 pm on June 29, 2009 I understand it is a way of gathering with your peers and having fun, but are those people really that fun to hang around with if you need to be inebriated in order to have a good time? first objection: You make an incorrect assumption here that people drink to make their peers more fun. It is, most of the time, the case that friends who can otherwise have fun sober, simply get drunk because that--in itself--is fun too. Getting drunk together is fun, and friends enjoy the process of it; it is not used solely as a coping method for boring buddies. I know there are studies showing health benefits to moderate drinking of alcoholic beverages, but I've yet to see anything that even remotely suggests that heavy drinking, or consumption of a lot of alcohol in a short amount of time is good for you. It's not. Neither is smoking cigarettes--or anything for that matter, really. But millions upon millions of people do it. Fast food is awful for you, but McDonalds sold over sixty gazillion oily greasy "cheeseburgers" this past year. Driving in a car isn't "good for you", but it is certainly a commodity we enjoy. A lot of people drink in order to get rid of their problems. I don't see why. If you are going through problems, alcohol, which is a depressant, will actually cause you to feel worse about your problems, and more often than not, those problems have either remained just as they were, or worsened due to the drinking. Yep. Drinking to drown problems isn't a viable way to deal with issues. But it solves one's short-term sadness; which is why so many people drown away their lives. If your argument is that drinking to forget is a bad idea, I doubt you'll find many objections. It's often used as a form of procrastination, which I think as most of us by now know, is only going to cause more problems in the future. So not true. I procrastinate all the time; and yea, sometimes alcohol takes the place of whatever it was I am supposed to be doing. But drinking alcohol does not necessitate being irresponsible. If the work gets done, and if one can do a good job after putting it off, then what harm is done? Most everyone knows the physical, social, emotional, and legal dangers it could possibly put you in, but most people find it worth the fun to go out and drink, and live it up like it's the last time you'll ever get to have fun. 1. Every time could be the last time 2. If you can have a blast, why wouldn't you? "Want to drink and have a ball tonight, Fred?" "Well, Tim, I don't know. You know, I can always have fun another time; plus, do I really need to have a blast? Will I be better off having a fun time, or are the possible negatives greater than the immediate positives. No thanks, I'll call it a night." That sounds pretty lame. You drink. You have fun, as much fun as you'd have in 2 normal days, compacted into 1 night. You wake up halfway through the next day, and you feel like you've been hit by a truck, a.k.a., a hangover. I rarely ever have hangovers, and I usually wake up really early after drinking. The next day even, you're probably still not feeling the greatest, and you have to make sure the mess that was made was cleaned up, and make sure everyone else is okay, got home safely, etc... So really, you're not gaining anymore fun into your life. You're basically just compacting it into small time frames. This is wrong. -- Posted by tell me again at 7:02 pm on June 30, 2009 Well, you are wrong? I'm not sure if you're exaggerating the negatives or if you are really misinformed. Because the points you make are just not true. -- Posted by Koopsey at 7:22 pm on June 30, 2009 The same reason people smoke marijuana or sniff coke. It feels good. What other reason do you need? -- Posted by Moridin at 7:14 pm on July 1, 2009 Quote: from Audioblood at 11:13 pm on June 30, 2009 In general, patients with alcoholic liver cirrhosis have been drinking heavily for 10 to 20 years, according to the Eighth Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol. About 90 percent of heavy alcohol users develop fatty liver, 40 percent have signs of alcoholic hepatitis, and 15 to 30 percent develop liver cirrhosis. Quoted site can be found here. So yeah. If you've been drinking heavily for 10 to 20 years, you have self-worth issues needing to be resolved anyway. A lot of those side effects can be avoided by responsible, moderate use. Because many people are irresponsible and gluttonous (particularly in the U.S.) there is an age limit on buying it, which is 3 years higher in the U.S. than most other places. The issue here is not the substance. If you stare at a bottle of alcohol all night, you will not get drunk. Even if you drink a whole bottle of liquor, there is nothing in the substance which MAKES you get in your car and drive off. Alcohol does not shove itself down the throats of pregnant mothers. It's really more about will-power than anything, and blaming a substance for people's actions/problems is not going to solve the underlying problem. There is no such thing as a responsible or moderate intake of alcohol, because it is highly additive. Arguing that there are is just as insane as arguing that it is possible to be responsible in your drug abuse of pure heroin. Completely out of the question. -- Posted by Moridin at 7:17 pm on July 1, 2009 Furthermore, your position is disproved by science. You are basically ignoring the phenomena of addiction. The point is that when you are drunk, you are not at your senses as you would be when you are sober, so the alcohol is indeed 'forcing' you into your car. The cognitive breaks that would prevent you from getting in your car is no longer operational. You clearly have no knowledge of neurochemistry at all. -- Posted by Audioblood at 9:37 pm on July 1, 2009 And I suppose you're a neurologist? To be honest, I really don't care if you are. I've spoken to a neurologist, like one with a bona fide degree, and there doesn't seem to be any real prerequisite other than memorizing theories and diagnostics. What you're failing to see here is that alcohol is not the problem. The problem is the person. Someone who is going to go somewhere, knowing that they will have to leave that place, yet still consumes enough alcohol to reach a point of inebriation such as that is, for lack of better terms, a fucking moron, anyway. It's not about cognitive "brakes" (I'm assuming that's the function you meant). I am not denying that alcohol, upon irresponsible use will cause a person to not realize that they shouldn't drive. But the alcohol doesn't force anyone into the car. Just like it doesn't force itself down the throat of the drinker to begin with. The person, although impaired, makes a conscious decision to drive away. Somewhere in their brain they have reasoned before-hand that getting a definite buzz and driving away, potentially endangering someone's life bears little repercussion to passing out on a near-by bench or asking/calling someone to pick them up, and looking like a jack-ass. Now, since you don't seem to comprehend the concept of responsible alcohol use, let me dumb it down it for you, starting with this quote: About.com: In all 50 states, the legal limit for drunk driving is a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level of .08. A 120-pound woman can reach a .08 BAC level after only two drinks and a 180-pound man can be at .08 after only four drinks. A "drink" is either one shot of liquor, a five-ounce glass of wine or one beer, all of which contain the same amount of alcohol. Right. So, by common deduction, I would figure that for a 180-pound man who wished to drink somewhere but knew he had to drive home, 2 beers would be responsible. For a 120-pound woman, 1 drink. Do you see the logic here? Alcohol is an inert substance. It isn't some liquid's fault that you aren't responsible enough to know your own body's limits. I'm about 175, and two beers after a hard days work [perhaps you know of that, with your alleged scientific degree] puts me in a good mood. Not drunk. But buzzing enough to realize that by chance I wanted to drive anywhere soon, now is the time to stop drinking. You clearly have no knowledge of self-control. -- Posted by Audioblood at 9:51 pm on July 1, 2009 Quote: from Moridin at 7:14 pm on July 1, 2009 There is no such thing as a responsible or moderate intake of alcohol, because it is highly additive. Arguing that there are is just as insane as arguing that it is possible to be responsible in your drug abuse of pure heroin. Completely out of the question. Man, I completely forgot to address this post. You're confounding me with this ignorance. Alcohol is not highly addictive. There is nothing in alcohol that causes physical dependence. It is entirely psychological. Succumbing to psychological dependence is likely an indication of a weak or impaired mentality. That said, would you give a legally retarded person alcohol, knowing they - the person, not the alcohol - would be much less likely than an average person to make rational decisions under its influence? No. Same concept, different scale. And while I hate to break it to you, you called it out with that second statement.   -- Posted by I never forget at 12:53 am on July 14, 2009 Well as a drinker myself, I am pro drinking. Drinking, is something my best friend and I do at every chance we get. Presently between the two of us since the start of June we've spend $3000.00+ USD on it a lone. The majority of it we drank to ourselves. Do I regret it? No, I don't. Could I have put the money to a "better" use. By most people's opinions, yes. Did I get in any trouble in that time? Not legally. We got kicked out of 2 different parties 4th of July for fighting however. It was pretty funny to be honest. I've met plenty of girls, and gotten their numbers, so it's been looking pretty good actually. I also got a girlfriend while drunk. Have I gotten a hangover at all? Not recently, I thought I was hungover, but it went away after I had a major bowel movement. Too much taco bell, Is what I have to say about that. If anything to only time we got close to any trouble was when we were sober, and were asked to leave 3 stores for hitting on every female employee. I've been meeting a lot of people, enjoying safe sex, parties, food, and been bonding with my best friend. I can't find anything bad that's happened. It's not for everyone, but I do recommend at least trying it once. -- Posted by stratocaster69 at 5:19 am on July 14, 2009 ok you have obviously put thought into this however if u haven't actually tried it before you shouldn't be making claims like that. I have been pretty drunk numerous time and I have never had a hangover, cleaning up is only a problem if u host the party. Keeping it short, I almost completely disagree with you. Simply u should not be so confident in what u say if u haven't tried it, I'm not sugesting you do but I have been drunk and therefore can see why people do it and by the comments u have made it's pretty obvious u haven't experienced this. -- Posted by gief at 9:41 am on July 14, 2009 Drinking lowers inhibitions, therefore if you get a group of people together who are all drinking they will be more likely to do things that they wouldn't typically do when sober. This includes dancing, singing, joking, certain levels of sexual promiscuity and courage to talk to members of the opposite sex. All members of the drinking group know that they are in an environment where most everyone is feeling they way that they do, so it removes embarrassment that would be felt in a sober situation. -- Posted by Fauna at 12:45 pm on July 14, 2009 Quote: from Themakingofagod at 3:25 am on June 30, 2009 I understand it is a way of gathering with your peers and having fun, but are those people really that fun to hang around with if you need to be inebriated in order to have a good time? If you NEED to be drunk around your friends in order to have a good time, that says everything about your friends and nothing about drinking. -- Posted by Event Horizon at 1:53 pm on July 14, 2009 Quote: from Fauna at 3:45 pm on July 14, 2009 Quote: from Themakingofagod at 3:25 am on June 30, 2009 I understand it is a way of gathering with your peers and having fun, but are those people really that fun to hang around with if you need to be inebriated in order to have a good time? If you NEED to be drunk around your friends in order to have a good time, that says everything about your friends and nothing about drinking. Right. With that said it's important, I think, to point out that there is a difference between needing to drink when you are around your friends, and wanting to drink with them. -- Posted by Elm at 3:15 pm on July 14, 2009 I drink because many times the drinks pair well with the meal or I enjoy the tradition of friends gathering around a good beer and talking of the news of the day the way social groups of men have discussed such things through the dawn of time.  It is a way to connect with the past in order to anchor oneself today. -- Posted by downwardspiral at 12:36 am on July 15, 2009 Quote: from dumb whore at 7:22 pm on June 30, 2009 The same reason people smoke marijuana or sniff coke. It feels good. What other reason do you need? None, really. People just seem to have this idea that perfect health is the best way to go. Drinking can be enjoyable, like using other drugs. It's none of anyone else's business what I take into my body, and they aren't better than me for not drinking. -- Posted by TheSte at 9:12 am on July 15, 2009 Personally, i love drinking, i have the best of times around my friends sober, but things are so much easier when we drink. I don't do it alot, but when i do, they are some of the best and funniest times in the world. I know, the OP was talking about heavy drinking, which i don't condone at all, but it's just fun, drinking in moderation. I'm having a party tonight, and plan to get drunk, I also plan to have a brilliant time. Just aslong as it's in moderation, and you're not stupidly drunk to the point where you black out (all though, that is fun as well :P). -- Posted by medjai at 3:43 pm on July 15, 2009 A friend of mine won the Texas State Academic Competition while drunk off his ass. That is to say he was drunk as they tested, came in first place, and then proceeded to accept his award in front of everyone their completely slammed off his ass. In fact he had liquor on him for the duration of the event. -- Posted by nikki at 11:48 am on July 17, 2009 I don't care if you're anti-drinking, that's all well and good, but what I can't stand is people who shove their anti-drinking bullcrap down other people's throats. -- Posted by Feminawesome at 10:55 am on July 20, 2009 I drink, but I have never been drunk. I just happen to think that Champagne is the best thing in the world. I like to keep my drinking habits healthy. Depressants don't necessarily cause depression-- they simply mean that one becomes more mellow. But it is important for a person to drink when she is happy, not when she is sad, because alcohol can intensify emotions. Being tipsy tends to make people happy and relaxed, which is why people self-medicate with alcohol. It also helps some people who are otherwise nervous to mingle better with other people. Some people are alcoholics and for those people, whenever alcohol is present, they will be compelled to drink. It's an addiction. And you're assuming that the people who drink would have fun without alcohol over the course of two days. That's not always true. Some people need that specific kind of social situation in order to really enjoy themselves (And by the way, other kinds of parties without alcohol require cleaning up as well). The relationship many American teenagers have with alcohol is far from healthy, but it isn't too tough to understand why they are drawn to it. I think part of the reason that relationship is so unhealthy is because of the demonization of alcohol. That's what leads to binge drinking and drinking to get drunk, rather than social drinking for the taste or just for a bit of a buzz. If parents felt comfortable serving their kids a glass of wine now and then, this "drunk culture" would be much smaller. In my visit to Belgium this summer, I went to a friend's party. She served alcohol. Most people elected soda, and a few people had some of the alcohol. No one got drunk or even tipsy. That, to me, is a healthy relationship-- no obligation to drink, and drinking for the taste. -- Posted by Feminawesome at 11:07 am on July 20, 2009 Quote: from Themakingofagod at 7:46 pm on June 29, 2009 Quote: from matto at 10:34 pm on June 29, 2009 Drinking isn't always the same as having a huge ass party, overdrinking, and getting a hangover.  Just saying.    That being said, all the points you made are good ones to not drink.    That being said, it's a choice that everyone makes for themselves.  There is no right or wrong answer to anything like that, as what's right for you may not be right for everyone else.    It is very fun if done correctly, with the right people.  =D I was referring to heavy drinking. Even if you drink heavily alone, you can still face a host of problems, but partying is by far the most common scene of it. moderate drinking is still okay, as long as you are still able to maintain sound judgment, but even then, I still personally don't agree with it. Then again, this isn't about person feelings. I would argue that heavy drinking alone is far worse than heavy drinking in a group of friends. You can die of alcohol poisoning with no one to help you out, or drown in your own vomit, or make a dumb decision like going for a drive. If you're in a group, people are more likely to look out for each other and make sure no one gets in serious trouble. They'll bring you water if you're dehydrated or have had too much to drink. They'll stop you from driving or offer a ride if you're too far gone. -- Posted by SpRiNgS at 7:10 am on July 21, 2009 I can understand not liking drinking for certain reasons but being open to reasonsas to why people WOULD drink is better Pages: 1 2  Next