-- Posted by The Persuader at 12:56 pm on July 1, 2009 Okay,so today I had a second case of a novice getting banned because of advertising and it got me thinking. These members are new and hardly know about the site. We can't expect them to read the FAQ on the day they join. Instead of banning them,the moderators can just explain it to them,right? What do you think? It's unfair to ban them when they don't know anything. You get the point,right? -- Posted by Hi Carie at 12:57 pm on July 1, 2009 We do that whenever possible. we offer them a chance to read the advertising guidelines and abide by them. they rarely take the opportunity. -- Posted by BackPorch at 12:58 pm on July 1, 2009 Once an advertiser, always an advertiser. I mean thats most likely the REASON they joined. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:00 pm on July 1, 2009 Most of these are usually bots, or people who want to advertise and don't give a crap about the guidelines on this site. 9 times out of 10 they'll post the topic, leave and never come back if they're banned. If not, they might come back every so often and post the same sort of topic. I think we tried something like this, or at least it was proposed. I didn't agree with the idea because I honestly don't think it will make a difference most of the time. Do you know how I know? Because most of the time no MER is found, and no further account is created. Those members that are sorry and didn't intend on it being like that, will file a MER or will contact a moderator, and those accounts are pardoned anyway. -- Posted by Live Just To Die at 1:03 pm on July 1, 2009 Nine times out of ten an advertiser WILL only be intrested in the site FOR advertising. -- Posted by hithere at 1:07 pm on July 1, 2009 Quote: from The Persuader at 12:56 pm on July 1, 2009 These members are new and hardly know about the site. We can't expect them to read the FAQ on the day they join. we can expect them to read the terms of use, though. http://www.golivewire.com/forums/join.cgi By clicking "Sign Up" you agree to all of the following:     Agree to the LiveWire Peer Support Network Terms of Service. which says You agree, through your use of the LiveWire Peer Support Network, that you will not ... (f) use LiveWire Peer Support Network to post advertising, promotional or solicitation material. -- Posted by Kinky Kitten at 1:30 pm on July 1, 2009 I think most that do advertise only sign up to do so. I mean when i first joined i was acused of advertising even though i wasent, my topic was deleted and i was given an informal warning but not banned so there for the people do get some sort of a chance i imagine. -- Posted by Hi Carie at 1:35 pm on July 1, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 3:00 pm on July 1, 2009 Most of these are usually bots i think this is important to stress. they aren't even real people. they will not listen if we ask them to read our terms of use and then comply. -- Posted by Wolf at 10:32 am on July 5, 2009 This was discussed at length. I will be getting permission from Jesse and other mods to move that topic to SL dicussion from the mod forum so you can see our stance, I don't know if other people would like that so I make no promises. I think it would be good for you all to see. @carie: What about my moneymom example? -- Posted by Spice at 10:39 am on July 5, 2009 I prefer the way we do things now. The real people and those who might care about advertising correctly have submitted MERs in the past, and been pardoned. -- Posted by Wolf at 10:42 am on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Spice at 1:39 pm on July 5, 2009 I prefer the way we do things now.   The real people and those who might care about advertising correctly have submitted MERs in the past, and been pardoned. My mod topic basically gave the precedent of "do as you will" so "the way that we do it now" doesn't exist.  There is nothing standardized.  You are not forced to informally warn them, and I am not forced to immediately ban them. I will informally warn anyone who makes an advert topic, because chances are they won't show up again. But people who do the cash crate referral crap will try to get the most from advertising and are generally real people just trying to do online business. So yes, I feel it necessary to inform them of our guidelines before I ban them. Generally I will do Informal > Ban.  But not those foreign PM spammers.  Those go instantly :/ -- Posted by Spice at 10:43 am on July 5, 2009 Quote: from W0lf at 6:42 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Spice at 1:39 pm on July 5, 2009 I prefer the way we do things now.  The real people and those who might care about advertising correctly have submitted MERs in the past, and been pardoned. My mod topic basically gave the precedent of "do as you will" I will informally warn anyone who makes an advert topic, because chances are they won't show up again. But people who do the cash crate referral crap will try to get the most from advertising and are generally real people just trying to do online business. So yes, I feel it necessary to inform them of our guidelines before I ban them. Generally I will do Informal > Ban. I'll continue banning bots :) -- Posted by Hi Carie at 10:45 am on July 5, 2009 Quote: from W0lf at 12:32 pm on July 5, 2009 @carie:  What about my moneymom example? did you read my first post? I said that we give people the chance to read the guidelines and follow them. I have messaged advertisers the ad guidelines, and talked to them, and given them chances. I have also banned a boatload of bots and other ad spammers. -- Posted by Wolf at 10:49 am on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Spice at 1:43 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from W0lf at 6:42 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Spice at 1:39 pm on July 5, 2009 I prefer the way we do things now.   The real people and those who might care about advertising correctly have submitted MERs in the past, and been pardoned. My mod topic basically gave the precedent of "do as you will" I will informally warn anyone who makes an advert topic, because chances are they won't show up again. But people who do the cash crate referral crap will try to get the most from advertising and are generally real people just trying to do online business. So yes, I feel it necessary to inform them of our guidelines before I ban them. Generally I will do Informal > Ban.   I'll continue banning bots :) I'll continue not banning "bots" because I know that there is not always a certain way to know 100%. I will take it on a case by case basis. Did you know: If a "bot" posts one advert topic and never logs in again then it is a lot of wasted motion to ban them? @carie: woopsies you're right -- Posted by Spice at 10:53 am on July 5, 2009 a lot of wasted motion? righhtttttt. it what two seconds to type us DoSS and one click from someone else =\ -- Posted by bighead1991 at 11:06 am on July 5, 2009 *wonders if the discussion going on by mods the past few posts should be in the mod forum not the sl forum* You can discuss it in there and sort out any real differences you have, rather than posting you disagree a few dozen times. -- Posted by The Mixed Tape at 7:47 am on July 6, 2009 Yes, a lot of our novices come to this site expecting something a lot different. The thing is, they are encouraged and supposed to read both the FAQ's and the Guidelines. They are generally supposed to read these to get a feel of what they should/shouldn't do on this site. I think it is perfectly fair to ban them if they come and advertise on LiveWire. Don't get me wrong, but it's a perfectly valid reason. Generally these members come to this site with the intent to Advertise. So giving them a warning won't really do any good, especially if they are going to continue to spam with their advertisements. Seriously, look back at some of the spam members we have had recently. For instance, the Billy May's advertiser. Username Billy Mays, posting the Same message everywhere he went. Although this member wasn't banned, he obviously came for the purpose of spamming a ridiculous message on LiveWire. Generally they will die down and realize they aren't wanted/needed/being cared about, and go away. Such as he/she. I suppose what I'm saying, in an overview, is that they should be banned if they fail to abide by the new rules. I doubt that moderators ban them off the wall. They receive informal warnings like everyone else. If they continue to not follow the rules, well, that is there choice. This message is sent out to every novice. Hopefully they take the time to read it. The first point, being to read the guidelines. If they choose not to, that is their fault and they are putting themselves at risk. I get your point, but I don't agree at all. -- Posted by The Mixed Tape at 9:35 am on July 6, 2009 Okay. So I somewhat get what you are trying to say now, since you explained it via. Private Message. Why Should We Care When One Of Our Novices Is Put Up For Denial Of Service? Is what I got from this. In a round about way, most of us wouldn't care and we have a lot of better things on our mind/to do. I think the whole purpose of having novices is so that we are able and capable to talk to them and get to know them. Introduce ourselves, and explain a little bit about LiveWire. Grant it, most of us again, could care less. In a sense, it should be about making sure they understand the aspects of everything and the general rules which deal with the everyday experience that they have here. Again, most of us don't even take the time to do this unless they message us first. Let alone do we keep tabs on them and make sure they are following the guidelines and rules. Why should we care? Well, to me, it seems that we should care because it demonstrates how well we are at making sure our novices are comfortable and familiar with the rules that they should follow. If we aren't capable to sit here and explain to them why a rule is in place, then of course they won't be following them and they will be put up for denial of service.